[Update2] NT needs help connecting with autistic children (ABA trigger warning)

[Homulilly]

Updated 4/27/2022. Current situation update. I'm trying to decide whether to stay or quit and need some suggestions. Thanks to all! This is on #32.

Updated 3/14/2022. Compiled things I need help with without the triggering stories from my original post. This info is on #23. Please still proceed with caution, because as NT I can’t fully know what is triggering for you guys in ABA. I’ll probably update every once in a while to explain new situations and new things I need help with.

This story is very long so please bear with me.

Some background knowledge about me and the situation. I'm an NT who graduated from a US college (basically a 4-yr university if your English habits are different) last year with a bachelor's in fine arts and a minor in psychology. I'm mentioning US because I think some cultureshock elements are in play here. I'm not American and returned to my home country after graduation. My home country is not in the West as defined by geography and the culture. Here, homogeneity is a huge thing and ableism is VERY prevalent. Homogeneity as in, even if you are NT with no disability, people still feel pressured to actively fit in.

Anyways, in January this year I started a job working in a rehab center for children with disabilities. This center is set up like a special school, and the schedule consists of classes and a short break in between each class. The kids usually only do work here for an hour a day, four days a week. The goal was to eventually mainstream them, but I didn't realize at the time that meant mainstream with zero support (sometimes a parent helping them in a mainstream school is allowed, but that's nowhere close to having a professional imo). I would start as a TA for their art class and would slowly take over, and also start sandplay therapy for the children. I would predominantly work with children with cognitive disabilities and a lot of them would be autistic. I thought that would be a great starting point for helping people, something I always wanted to do, but I had no idea this would turn bad very quickly.

As of the time I'm writing this right now, I'm currently in training for ABA while TAing for the art class. I was told about ABA in January and did some research. I ended up looking at a lot of autistic people criticizing the approach. I have to admit, I did not disregard those opinion, but I should've taken them a lot more seriously. This center has a very high credential, and that's probably why I thought I should give them a chance. I thought I should wait until my training started to make judgments about ABA. Whelp, I'm judging it now.

The first few weeks I started training, ABA actually didn't seem too bad (ok, I was wrong). The people here always used reinforcement. The very few times punishment was used, it was in the form of a verbal reprimand. So I thought, not so bad. But then I started noticing people forcing autistic children to stop stimming and sit still like NT, and that was my first red flag. And then it got way worse. One of the kids here is not verbal and constantly stims, he would walk all over the classroom during group activities for games, and I was told to hold him by the shoulders to stop him from moving. Initially, I did not want to do that because most of the psych classes I took in college were about therapy and mental illnesses, and I was taught to respect personal space and never touch clients, things like that. But then other people showed me how to hold him and he didn't struggle, he was actually calm, so I thought maybe that was okay. (I'm sorry!) Actually, after doing more research on autism and reading some of the posts here, should I be concerned he's calm when he's held down standing still? He doesn't seem to mind physical touch, once he kneaded my palm for about 5 minutes stimming. But when he was held we were obviously stopping him from stimming.

Also with this child, I think he's very visual and understands hand signals. The group activities involved some commands like "stand" "sit" "go", and I could see him doing it when I added hand signals to oral speech. I don't know the local sign language so I can't teach it to him to make sure. But is it safe to think he has average intellectual abilities, just not speech? Sometimes we have the kids do tasks, but I don't know if it effectively measures IQ for autistics. For example, we ask them to color in a picture, and many would color in patches and not confine the colors in lines. Some kids have difficulties stringing beads in a specific pattern. Not sure if that's just autistic brains being different or really IQ, please comment! Anyways, back to this kid, before I discovered the hand signals, I used to tell him the commands orally and he wouldn't do anything, and once the teacher in charge told me, "He doesn't understand anything, just hold him down." That was just...I didn't even know how to describe the feeling, just so sad, I guess?

And then another kid I really need help with. I observe him in ABA one-on-one training four times a week, and he's also in the art class I'm TAing. He's 8. He is verbal but from an NT perspective he seems distracted when he's speaking, is that a sign he's struggling with this method of communication? He understands writing so I could try that. Anyways, in class he really likes to play with markers, but not necessarily use them. By that I mean, he's really excited when he's holding/playing with markers, but if we tell him to draw something, he stares at the paper with a frown and makes a mark or two and stops. The main teacher gets mad at him for doing this, which is really sad. But if another child is drawing something, he copies their drawing, so a lot of his work look like replicas of someone else's. He does not copy drawings that are already drawn, nor does he copy another adult. What might be the cause of that from an autistic perspective? I'm suspecting he's doing it to avoid being reprimanded, because if another kid his age is doing so, it's safe and possibly correct (he gets told he does things wrong A LOT). Part of his self-introduction consists of "I like art and basketball," but idk if it's genuine or if he was just taught that because of "obsession" with markers. Do you guys think he likes art from this description?

He is also labeled as "aggressive," which I don't agree with, but I do have difficulties communicating rules to him. We have a group of kids in art, and we put a set of markers and one playdoh in a white box in front of each kid. Once he got up and took another kid's markers and started running around the classroom with it. Another time he went through three boxes grabbing playdohs when other kids were seated in close approximity to the boxes, and because there were things on top of the playdoh, everything ended up being thrown on the floor. That action did appear really aggressive from NT perspective but I don't think he did it intentionally. In fact, from NT perspective, it seemed like he couldn't control himself when he did those things. Can you guys provide input as to what happened there? Also, next time this happens, what can I do to calm him down quickly so he's not hurting anyone or taking other kids' stuff? During his ABA, he always needs a box of his markers in sight, and sometimes he would shoot up from his seat and grab the box. Sometimes he's yelled at for that, and once the instructor ripped the markers out of his hand. He clearly appeared distressed but was met with more yelling. It was really traumatizing even for me, an observer.

Right now I'm just waiting until my training is over. I have some relief in knowing I wouldn't be conducting ABA if I'm doing art class and sandplay therapy. I'm hoping to eatablish the sandplay room as a safe space for the kids. Comments and suggestions on that?

Some background info, more questions, and ethics in general:
I know what the instructors are doing here is bad, but they are not aware and think they are trying to help. Here it's different from the US, where you need a master's and training to do ABA. Many of the instructors started out being kindergarten teachers in mainstream schools. I think when they first started, they were just given ABA training for a few months and then evaluated. Also homogeneity and ableism is so strong here, most people think the only way to help people with disabilities is to (even some pwd agree) "make them normal." I'm specifically thinking about hearing aids and CIs for deaf/hoh people, I was really surprised when I learned those are not usually met with pushback by most Deaf people here. Also I've seen a lot of people with mild disabilities online wishing they were "normal" and saying they would never have kids. But then again, idk how much that represents everyone, pwd are basically invisible here and I have no other way to ask.

Anyways, my point is, I doubt the instructors are aware their ableist attitude is hurting the kids. I'm not even sure how much they knew about autism before ABA was shoved down their throat. ABA is also used with children with intellectual disabilities here and that really is working well. When mainstreaming, it is expected that the kids could be in school independently without extra help. That's just awareness on the governmental level and where funding goes (or doesn't go, I suppose). I'm not sure what to do at this point because some of the kids here are really bright, but if they don't learn to act NT, they would not have a chance to higher education. Mandatory education here stops after middle school. Social awareness and education is lagging about 50 years behind compared to the West, at the least. And even if I tell other instructors about this and they believe me, and best scenario would be them asking, what do we do instead, to which I apply, well, the medical field doesn't have an answer yet. I'm sure that's going to go well (extra sarcastic).

 

[Homulilly]

Questions
Some of the kids here really do act NT now, should I encourage some autistic behaviors to them? But they are not doing it anymore, so how should I encourage it? Also I need to be discreet so no one notices me promoting these bahaviors or notices them doing it.

When an autistic person is stimming, is it ethical to stop them? Some of the kids here stims quietly, not bothering anyone, but I was told to stop them because it would interfere with their tasks (they are not doing their tasks when stimming). The tasks are for helping with intellectual disability because a lot of the kids here are comorbid. I'm assuming having kids do these tasks is okay?

Are they aware of their surroundings when stimming? Some kids don't pay attention to me at all when they are stimming, be it voice, writing, or hand signals. What's the best way to communicate to them when they are like this? Even if I let them be, another instructor will definitely force them "back on track."

Ethics
The ethics of me turning a blind eye on ABA at this center. Honestly don't know what to do about this. Reasons for not doing anything are written in the background info section above. Here's one things that's bothering me tho. After my training is over, my evaluation consists of doing some commands with a child in ABA format. Commands will be things like "clap your hand" "touch your nose" "do this". One, I need feedback on whether this really measures the intellectual capacity of autistic kids, because many of them don't do anything until after many rounds of ABA. Two, I need to do this to pass my training, so hate me if you want, unless there's a way around it.

The ethics of me doing sandplay therapy with no psychology degree, let alone licensure. Yup, I totally know therapy is a real thing and doing therapy without training could do more harm than good. Right now I'm not thinking about doing real therapy, just a safe space for play and activities. I think it's better than not having any safe space at all. Comments and suggestions?

 

[Gerontius]

Questions
Some of the kids here really do act NT now, should I encourage some autistic behaviors to them? But they are not doing it anymore, so how should I encourage it? They'll figure it out! Also I need to be discreet so no one notices me promoting these bahaviors or notices them doing it. Tell them something positive that a NT might think is boilerplate "motivation," such as "just be yourself," and us autistic types will take it literally.

When an autistic person is stimming, is it ethical to stop them? Depends. Rocking on heels while standing, leg bouncing, etc., just let it ride. Some people fidget. NT's fidget. Masturbating under the desk, scratching with sharp objects, making a ton of noise--Not such a great idea. Stop that while it's still ahead. Some of the kids here stims quietly, not bothering anyone, but I was told to stop them because it would interfere with their tasks (they are not doing their tasks when stimming). Silly. You had the right idea realizing that they're not hurting anything. The tasks are for helping with intellectual disability because a lot of the kids here are comorbid. I'm assuming having kids do these tasks is okay? What are the tasks, and what are the comorbidities of the patients?

Thoughts on stimming--I used to stim constantly. Buying blue-light blocking glasses helped me a lot--Now, it is no longer physically painful to go sit in a classroom or something, and I am no longer a road hazard while driving. Also--A change of clothes may work wonders. Fabrics that aren't distracting, are a godsend. I am wearing itchy Harris tweeds right now and I feel fantastic; I love itchy woolens. It helps me remember where my skin is. (Sounds silly but it's true.) Other people like silky fabrics, or cottons. It depends on the individual person, and this is frequently one of the things that ABA overlooks--ABA is like a drop-forging process that heats the autistic soul to red hot and then pounds it into shape, grinding off the excess at the mold line & throwing it in a box of identical replicas to be put up at a fixed price for the labor market. Autism specialists who know their stuff are like the old-time watchmaker. He starts with formless lumps of raw materials & carefully forges it into something good, working by hand, a little bit at a time, even saving all the bits he must file off and melting those down for something wonderful. Then he fills it with good works, protects it with a piece of glass, and has a one-of-a-kind gold watch that will last forever even though it will never be popular or stylish or trendy.


Are they aware of their surroundings when stimming? I cannot speak to ASD-2 or ASD-3 experience, but as ASD-1/high functioning, I am aware of my surroundings. Some kids don't pay attention to me at all when they are stimming, be it voice, writing, or hand signals. What's the best way to communicate to them when they are like this? Make for a transition between stim & work. Even if I let them be, another instructor will definitely force them "back on track."

Ethics
The ethics of me turning a blind eye on ABA at this center. Honestly don't know what to do about this. Reasons for not doing anything are written in the background info section above. Here's one things that's bothering me tho. After my training is over, my evaluation consists of doing some commands with a child in ABA format. Commands will be things like "clap your hand" "touch your nose" "do this". One, I need feedback on whether this really measures the intellectual capacity of autistic kids, because many of them don't do anything until after many rounds of ABA. Two, I need to do this to pass my training, so hate me if you want, unless there's a way around it. Nobody here is going to hate you. We hate ABA, and the ABA believers.

The ethics of me doing sandplay therapy with no psychology degree, let alone licensure. Yup, I totally know therapy is a real thing and doing therapy without training could do more harm than good. Right now I'm not thinking about doing real therapy, just a safe space for play and activities. I think it's better than not having any safe space at all. Therapeutic horsemanship exists. The day a Haflinger horse gets a master's degree in psychiatry, I'll eat my hat. People do not need human-invented titles & papers just to help other people; they use their good qualities. You sound like a nice enough human at heart, but maybe you could do more by getting done with all this stuff, and just finish up your training & then go ahead and work therapy. The licensed ones will go fill up the Judge Rotenburg center, etc., and if it's not for people with your sense of decency getting their degrees, then it's going to be ABA all the way down. Finish your training & get your license, THEN break the mold. More effective that way! Comments and suggestions?

 

[Magna]

I got as far as you seeing a wonderful autistic non-verbal child walking around stimming and an ABA "therapist" restraining the child. I can't read any further. Maybe later, but I can't do it now. I think it's horrible.

 

[Wolfnox]

Yeah. Yelling at least in my case was badly
tramatising. It instantly caused blackouts and panic attacks along with disorientation.
As for ABA. Sounds like you disagree. The idea of conformity your speaking of. Is forcefully placed upon them by this therapy.
Speaking for myself. I would have rejected or pretend to like and do what's expected.
Misunderstandings will occur. Something you already have guessed by being on this site to gain insight.
Read the threads. It might help.

 

[Matthias]

One major problem with these treatments is they often appear to be done without any regard for the child's feelings. I recommend pretending you are an odd child with an intellectual disability. Think about how you would feel, what you would want out of life, your emotional needs, and how you would see the world. Would you feel lonely, want a friend, want to feel understood, or feel like people cared about you and what's best for you? Think about what you would think and feel about adults barking orders at you or trying to get you to act a certain way if you didn't understand why it was important or felt they saw you as defective and were just trying to get you to act normal without making any attempt to understand why you acted abnormally.

Some advice:
Treat them like you would your own child - with warmth, compassion, and sensitivity. Be positive, patient, and understanding. Help them feel like you are on their side.

Never yell at an autistic child (many are hypersensitive to sound and will likely resent you if you cause them pain). If you know they are bothered by noise, speak in a softer than normal voice to show you understand and respect them.

Try to help them with their emotions by identifying and validating their feelings. For example, you could say, "You seem frustrated because... I know it's hard but I'm glad you're trying." followed by something like, "I believe in you. You can do it", "Let me show you another way", or "Would you like to take a quick break?" if you see they're getting tired and having trouble focusing because of it. Try to make it a positive experience that they enjoy or will help them feel better about themselves.

Avoid negativity. If you must communicate something negative, try to reword it in a positive way or communicate something positive at the same time.

Think about what would happen if you quit. Since the children will keep getting the therapy either way, ask yourself, "Would the children be better off with you or with someone else?" If you're more supportive and caring than your co-workers, they will probably be worse off without you.

 

[Homulilly]

I got as far as you seeing a wonderful autistic non-verbal child walking around stimming and an ABA "therapist" restraining the child. I can't read any further. Maybe later, but I can't do it now. I think it's horrible.

Thank you for your comment. The story gets worse, even I as NT was a little traumatized by an event later. Please be aware if you want to read further. Regarding the non-verbal child, what do you recommend to communicate with him? I found that he understands hand gestures, but idk the local sign language so I can’t teach it to him. He’s also young(around 5 or 6?), doesnt understand a lot of writing.

 

[Homulilly]

Thank you for all this information! I’m not sure how to work the quote function so I’m copy and pasting your question.

What are the tasks, and what are the comorbidities of the patients?

A lot of the autistic children here are ASD-2 or ASD-3, so the comorbidity I was talking about is mild to severe intellectual disability. Some of the tasks are putting color blocks together a certain way, stringing beads in a certain pattern, coloring a picture. The kids struggle with these tasks, but idk if that’s because autistic brains are different or really the IQ. Now I’m realizing I should probably compile a clean version of the whole bunch of things I need help with, minus the triggering stories, so stay tuned for that.

 

[Homulilly]

Thank you for all this information! I’m not sure how to work the quote function so I’m copy and pasting your question.

What are the tasks, and what are the comorbidities of the patients?

A lot of the autistic children here are ASD-2 or ASD-3, so the comorbidity I was talking about is mild to severe intellectual disability. Some of the tasks are putting color blocks together a certain way, stringing beads in a certain pattern, coloring a picture. The kids struggle with these tasks, but idk if that’s because autistic brains are different or really the IQ. Now I’m realizing I should probably compile a clean version of the whole bunch of things I need help with, minus the triggering stories, so stay tuned for that.

this is meant as a reply to @Gerontius

 

[Matthias]

The first few weeks I started training, ABA actually didn't seem too bad (ok, I was wrong). The people here always used reinforcement. The very few times punishment was used, it was in the form of a verbal reprimand. So I thought, not so bad. But then I started noticing people forcing autistic children to stop stimming and sit still like NT, and that was my first red flag. And then it got way worse. One of the kids here is not verbal and constantly stims, he would walk all over the classroom during group activities for games, and I was told to hold him by the shoulders to stop him from moving. Initially, I did not want to do that because most of the psych classes I took in college were about therapy and mental illnesses, and I was taught to respect personal space and never touch clients, things like that. But then other people showed me how to hold him and he didn't struggle, he was actually calm, so I thought maybe that was okay. (I'm sorry!) Actually, after doing more research on autism and reading some of the posts here, should I be concerned he's calm when he's held down standing still? He doesn't seem to mind physical touch, once he kneaded my palm for about 5 minutes stimming. But when he was held we were obviously stopping him from stimming.

Some autistic children like being touched. If he stimmed because he was stressed, physical contact may have reduced his stress and helped him feel calm. I'd pay careful attention to his facial expressions and body language to gauge how he feels about it.

Also with this child, I think he's very visual and understands hand signals. The group activities involved some commands like "stand" "sit" "go", and I could see him doing it when I added hand signals to oral speech. I don't know the local sign language so I can't teach it to him to make sure. But is it safe to think he has average intellectual abilities, just not speech? Sometimes we have the kids do tasks, but I don't know if it effectively measures IQ for autistics. For example, we ask them to color in a picture, and many would color in patches and not confine the colors in lines. Some kids have difficulties stringing beads in a specific pattern. Not sure if that's just autistic brains being different or really IQ, please comment! Anyways, back to this kid, before I discovered the hand signals, I used to tell him the commands orally and he wouldn't do anything, and once the teacher in charge told me, "He doesn't understand anything, just hold him down." That was just...I didn't even know how to describe the feeling, just so sad, I guess?

I think you're probably right he has difficulty understanding speech. I'd try speaking more slowly or doing the best you can with hand signals.

And then another kid I really need help with. I observe him in ABA one-on-one training four times a week, and he's also in the art class I'm TAing. He's 8. He is verbal but from an NT perspective he seems distracted when he's speaking, is that a sign he's struggling with this method of communication? He understands writing so I could try that. Anyways, in class he really likes to play with markers, but not necessarily use them. By that I mean, he's really excited when he's holding/playing with markers, but if we tell him to draw something, he stares at the paper with a frown and makes a mark or two and stops. The main teacher gets mad at him for doing this, which is really sad. But if another child is drawing something, he copies their drawing, so a lot of his work look like replicas of someone else's. He does not copy drawings that are already drawn, nor does he copy another adult. What might be the cause of that from an autistic perspective? I'm suspecting he's doing it to avoid being reprimanded, because if another kid his age is doing so, it's safe and possibly correct (he gets told he does things wrong A LOT). Part of his self-introduction consists of "I like art and basketball," but idk if it's genuine or if he was just taught that because of "obsession" with markers. Do you guys think he likes art from this description?

My impression is that he doesn't like adults due to negative experiences with them and may suffer from anxiety.

He is also labeled as "aggressive," which I don't agree with, but I do have difficulties communicating rules to him. We have a group of kids in art, and we put a set of markers and one playdoh in a white box in front of each kid. Once he got up and took another kid's markers and started running around the classroom with it. Another time he went through three boxes grabbing playdohs when other kids were seated in close approximity to the boxes, and because there were things on top of the playdoh, everything ended up being thrown on the floor. That action did appear really aggressive from NT perspective but I don't think he did it intentionally. In fact, from NT perspective, it seemed like he couldn't control himself when he did those things. Can you guys provide input as to what happened there? Also, next time this happens, what can I do to calm him down quickly so he's not hurting anyone or taking other kids' stuff? During his ABA, he always needs a box of his markers in sight, and sometimes he would shoot up from his seat and grab the box. Sometimes he's yelled at for that, and once the instructor ripped the markers out of his hand. He clearly appeared distressed but was met with more yelling. It was really traumatizing even for me, an observer

This sounds like an emotional issue to me. He needs the markers and is focused on getting his needs met (being unaware or unconcerned about others). He may be focused on himself because he's lonely or be unconcerned about others because he's had mostly negative experiences with people. If he has positive interactions with you and feels like you understand and care about him, he may be willing to listen to you and show more concern about other people.

 

[Owliet]

I’m an educator myself and I’ve worked with various learning disabilities. I currently have a student who is ASD2, and I try to implement things for this student. So, I will try to help although I am not a special education teacher, I have had some training here.

The goal was to eventually mainstream them, but I didn't realize at the time that meant mainstream with zero support (sometimes a parent helping them in a mainstream school is allowed, but that's nowhere close to having a professional imo).

Unfortunately there’s a few schools that aim to do this. It is my belief that kids respond really well with the right support Once they go into mainstream education, the support should be in place to continuously help them with their transition. This is something that the education department of the government needs to look at but obviously that’s a low priority. All you can do is to try to give students the best tools and strategies for this eventual transition. But it’s easier to say than put it into practice.

One of the kids here is not verbal and constantly stims, he would walk all over the classroom during group activities for games, and I was told to hold him by the shoulders to stop him from moving.

It’s possible that there’s a worry that the kid may disrupt the others. Kids see this and go “he’s doing this, so I can too!” It might be better instead of stopping him, to try to take him out of the classroom and allow him to move about somewhere else as it seems as though he needs that. But you have to make sure that he understands that he goes out and goes back when you say so. You could also give him cards: one that’s a stop and another that’s a go, so he knows by images that he can go out for this walk and when it is time to go back in.

For example, we ask them to color in a picture, and many would color in patches and not confine the colors in lines. Some kids have difficulties stringing beads in a specific pattern. Not sure if that's just autistic brains being different or really IQ, please comment!

Most kids can’t color in lines, and they’re NTs. Some of them can’t even write properly because they rely on their laptops. The difficulty with stringing beads is coordination difficultly, not necessarily intellect.

and once the teacher in charge told me, "He doesn't understand anything, just hold him down." That was just...I didn't even know how to describe the feeling, just so sad, I guess?

It sounds like the other teachers are not qualified for this or theyve list all faith and have gone for the easier method without really understanding that their impatience impacts negatively on the child.

he seems distracted when he's speaking, is that a sign he's struggling with this method of communication? He understands writing so I could try that.

try writing, it might be easier for him. It’s possible that he finds it difficult to process his words into speech. The kid that I have is also very similar.

The main teacher gets mad at him for doing this, which is really sad. But if another child is drawing something, he copies their drawing, so a lot of his work look like replicas of someone else's.

it’s possible that he doesn’t really have inspiration for what to draw, like it’s possible that he finds it difficult to transfer thoughts onto paper and then becomes more blocked when his teacher yells at him, so will be inspired by what another kid has done as this is a means to help himself without being yelled at by the scary teacher. Which is sad.

Part of his self-introduction consists of "I like art and basketball

He might like them.

Another time he went through three boxes grabbing playdohs when other kids were seated in close approximity to the boxes, and because there were things on top of the playdoh, everything ended up being thrown on the floor.

I’ll be honest, this can be looked at different ways. I once had a kid who was pretty proactive who would see something they wanted and didn’t see others in the process, and would literally step on others to get what they wanted. This kid also injured others in the process, which is difficult to manage when you have someone who has injured another. And I mean blood. In this case, the kid needs to learn that he has to have awareness for others and to keep their space clear.

Sometimes he's yelled at for that, and once the instructor ripped the markers out of his hand. He clearly appeared distressed but was met with more yelling.

Yeah, that should not have happened. It seems like the teacher is tired and frustrated with this particular kid and has chosen this default approach. Give him a set of markers, if he needs to have them in front of him do it. Yelling doesn’t solve anything, and it is often met with more difficultly. My kid who is ASD 2 has a support worker who has argued and fought with her. This causes the kid to block herself further instead of encouraging her to do the task. Some people should never work in this capacity.

 

[Homulilly]

I’m an educator myself and I’ve worked with various learning disabilities. I currently have a student who is ASD2, and I try to implement things for this student. So, I will try to help although I am not a special education teacher, I have had some training here.



Unfortunately there’s a few schools that aim to do this. It is my belief that kids respond really well with the right support Once they go into mainstream education, the support should be in place to continuously help them with their transition. This is something that the education department of the government needs to look at but obviously that’s a low priority. All you can do is to try to give students the best tools and strategies for this eventual transition. But it’s easier to say than put it into practice.


It’s possible that there’s a worry that the kid may disrupt the others. Kids see this and go “he’s doing this, so I can too!” It might be better instead of stopping him, to try to take him out of the classroom and allow him to move about somewhere else as it seems as though he needs that. But you have to make sure that he understands that he goes out and goes back when you say so. You could also give him cards: one that’s a stop and another that’s a go, so he knows by images that he can go out for this walk and when it is time to go back in.


Most kids can’t color in lines, and they’re NTs. Some of them can’t even write properly because they rely on their laptops. The difficulty with stringing beads is coordination difficultly, not necessarily intellect.

It sounds like the other teachers are not qualified for this or theyve list all faith and have gone for the easier method without really understanding that their impatience impacts negatively on the child.



try writing, it might be easier for him. It’s possible that he finds it difficult to process his words into speech. The kid that I have is also very similar.



it’s possible that he doesn’t really have inspiration for what to draw, like it’s possible that he finds it difficult to transfer thoughts onto paper and then becomes more blocked when his teacher yells at him, so will be inspired by what another kid has done as this is a means to help himself without being yelled at by the scary teacher. Which is sad.


He might like them.


I’ll be honest, this can be looked at different ways. I once had a kid who was pretty proactive who would see something they wanted and didn’t see others in the process, and would literally step on others to get what they wanted. This kid also injured others in the process, which is difficult to manage when you have someone who has injured another. And I mean blood. In this case, the kid needs to learn that he has to have awareness for others and to keep their space clear.

Yeah, that should not have happened. It seems like the teacher is tired and frustrated with this particular kid and has chosen this default approach. Give him a set of markers, if he needs to have them in front of him do it. Yelling doesn’t solve anything, and it is often met with more difficultly. My kid who is ASD 2 has a support worker who has argued and fought with her. This causes the kid to block herself further instead of encouraging her to do the task. Some people should never work in this capacity.

This is something that the education department of the government needs to look at but obviously that’s a low priority.

Totally agree. Here, if kids are mainstreamed, they are expected to do things without any professional help. I think that’s why this center I’m working at pushes ableism so much.

The difficulty with stringing beads is coordination difficultly, not necessarily intellect.

For clarification, I meant colored beads in a specific order. For example, they have an example of red, blue, green at the end of the string and they are expected to finish the rest in that order. Some kids start doing red, blue, green, green, green after a while. One time I was helping a kid with this, and I asked if he knows what’s next, and he said he didn’t know.

 

[Owliet]

Totally agree. Here, if kids are mainstreamed, they are expected to do things without any professional help. I think that’s why this center I’m working at pushes ableism so much.


For clarification, I meant colored beads in a specific order. For example, they have an example of red, blue, green at the end of the string and they are expected to finish the rest in that order. Some kids start doing red, blue, green, green, green after a while. One time I was helping a kid with this, and I asked if he knows what’s next, and he said he didn’t know.

Ah I see. It is possible that they sequence pattern is not clear in expectation? I find giving clear instructions, giving an image of what is expected helps the kid that I have.

 

[Homulilly]

Ah I see. It is possible that they sequence pattern is not clear in expectation? I find giving clear instructions, giving an image of what is expected helps the kid that I have.

Yeah, I point to individual colored beads while telling the kid something like, ”These three are red, blue, green. You have a red here, what’s next?” Usually when I’m there helping, he could get it right. I’m noticing he starts putting the same color on after a while. Could it be he’s stimming with the beads? He sits still and acts like NT otherwise, so he might be turning to the beads instead. Honestly I should just ask him about it lol, I think his language skills are pretty good.

Also, thank you for all the other suggestions! I’ll try them out!

 

[Hypnalis]

@Homulilly

Something else for you to consider:

Many HFA's don't learn things the same way as NT's. I've always suspected this, like other communication issues, reflects the nature of "whatever Autism is" (which AFAIK nobody actually knows - it's "symptom-defined")

So, if it reflects the underlying characteristic, you'd expect it to show up in people with "more" of it, but displayed differently (more of a given behavior, behavioral "gaps" rather than differences in the same behavior, etc).

Some mutually consistent things I've noticed about aspie learning:

1. Needing a personal motivation to learn things - without it, there's a real risk of getting bored and disengaging, as a result of the lack of interest
2. Wanting to understand the full context of what they're learning from the start (which is actually impossible, so it can be constraining)
3. Not picking up small things until they have an almost complete understanding of the domain

Note that the last one has an interesting effect: people can be quite weak at applying their knowledge at first, but when it all comes together they very quickly excel at it compared to NT's.

I don't see how ABA is useful in this context, even in situations where it's not harmful.
Certainly beating people doesn't motivate them - though it greatly increases the chances they become resentful and vengeful. You must know what early mistreatment does to people with the wiring for psychopathy.

I have zero experience in this kind of thing, but if I was looking for a way to get Autistics to perform meaningless behaviors to satisfy some random ghosts in their environment, I'd start by trying to help them contextualize it - i.e. 1->2->3 from my list.

Your long post suggests your nature and experience is taking you in the right direction, which is great.

I also understand your need to complete "torture school", and that it doesn't imply acceptance of the methods. ABA doesn't actually harm everyone though - perhaps there's room for some lateral thinking - e.g. maybe you can choose people for the test, and select from those who won't be negatively affected?

 

[OkRad]

If they live in a country where ableism is rife and the disabled are disrespected and face a treatment cliff when your centre is done with them, well, they are going to have a horrible life, period! The best you can do is give them happy memories of a nice teacher that seemed to bend the rules. They WILL remember you one way or another in the hell hole you are describing. How do you want to be remembered?

 

[Magna]

If they live in a country where ableism is rife and the disabled are disrespected and face a treatment cliff when your centre is done with them, well, they are going to have a horrible life, period! The best you can do is give them happy memories of a nice teacher that seemed to bend the rules. They WILL remember you one way or another in the hell hole you are describing. How do you want to be remembered?

This is a good point. The world isn't a very hospitable place for autistic people (e.g. it's loud, it's bright, it's harsh, etc). The rigid "do it this way and this way only or else...and the way you're doing things is wrong." of ABA enforces/reinforces the "world" as a hostile environment. It reinforces NTs as being intolerant to those that are not like them. There has to be a better way.

 

[Tom]

I don't know the full situation there but my initial impression is that the problem is not ABA so much as the use of antiquated methodologies and calling them ABA.

For example, ABA does not use physical restraint except to prevent someone from actually harming other students, staff or themselves. Like if they pick up something and charge at another student as if to hit them. It's not used to stop someone from stimming or just sit in their seat.

Rather then depending upon just the weight of your opinion, you might find it helpful to study ABA fully and then have the evidential weight of that to convince others they are not following it. It's not easy btw. ABA has much course work and practical hours required. To reach the highest level of certification, I think BCBA is about the equivalent, training and education-wise of a Nurse Practicioner.

It's not perfect but is probably the best option currently available for widespread use.

 

[Crossbreed]

@Homulilly, I suggest that you consider the neuro-divergent perspective as advocated by these USA organizations,

• The Autism Society of America (local affiliates)
• US Autism Association

There is autism with [ASD2/3] and without [ASD1] severe co-morbid conditions.*
Your students are the former. Their individual co-morbid conditions need more attention than their [base] autism does.** Those needs are more like traumatic brain injuries.

IIRC, ABA is not prescribed for TBIs.

*We sometimes refer to this as "short-bus" [requiring special ed.] vs. "long-bus" [not requiring special ed.] autism.
**You must still learn how to "speak" to the underlying "long-bus" autism, though.

 

[Gracey]

What was on top of the playdoh?

you mentioned the playdoh is offered in a white box.
You also mentioned on the day he was most unreachable, their was 'stuff on top of the playdoh'
What 'stuff' ?

re: local sign language, do you have time to learn some basics of sign used with this student?