People don't believe or appreciate honesty

[Fino]

But my question is why doesn't anyone believe it when I make a statement? When my kids were teenagers I would tell them, ie: If you go somewhere without asking first I will take away your internet privileges for a week. My son goes somewhere without asking. I change the password and he's furious because he didn't think I would. Or, as I said in a response to another thread, I tell my husband that I'm getting close to that point that I will be done and once I get there there's no hope. Nothing changes and I get to that point and he's shocked. I warn people what will happen (just because I know me) and it means nothing to them.

I have this exact problem and have said a million times, "Why does no one believe me when I say I'll do something?" People are constantly in shock by what I said what would happen!

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

have this exact problem and have said a million times, "Why does no one believe me when I say I'll do something?"

A poltroon , or a jester is the only person who could tell the truth in front of the king.

His social status was that of a fool, with bells on his hat and his boots.

Not saying history repeats but sometimes it rhymes...

 

[Gracey]

A poltroon , or a jsster is the only person who could tell the truth in front of the king.

His social status was that of a fool, with bells on his hat and his boots.

Not saying history repeats but sometimes it rhymes...

What’s a jsster?

 

[Fino]

A poltroon , or a jsster is the only person who could tell the truth in front of the king.

His social status was that of a fool, with bells on his hat and his boots.

Not saying history repeats but sometimes it rhymes...

I don't get it! And which part of that rhymes? Am I the jester? Who's the king? Am I the king??

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

What’s a jsster?

What’s a jsster?

Similad, a poltroon!

 

[Fino]

What’s a jsster?

Speaking of that, And what's an ememe? I googled it and it insisted I meant "meme".

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Speaking of that, And what's an ememe? I googled it and it insisted I meant "meme".

An ememe is a unit of emotion, which NTs use to communicate.

Based on meme. A unit of cultural tranferrence.

A unit of emotional transferrance - an ememe.

A neologism.

 

[sidd851]

I have this exact problem and have said a million times, "Why does no one believe me when I say I'll do something?" People are constantly in shock by what I said what would happen!

Most Repeatable Movie Line, from Alien:Resurrection:

"Why does nobody listen to me?"

 

[garnetflower13]

Years ago there was a man at church that I was never comfortable about because he was always too much with the kids. It just didn't seem right that the majority of this grown man's time was spent with kids than adults. We were friends but I would never have left my kids with him alone. Well, he was a gym teacher and charged with indecent liberties with a student. While the trial was going on I had a daughter in the hospital and he and his wife offered to babysit the kids. My mom wanted to make up excuses every time as to why not but I explained that under the current circumstances I couldn't - I didn't want them to keep asking and it was obvious why, so why pretend. He was found guilty. His wife ended up leaving him. And how could they have expected me to respond any other way. I can't live on made up excuses.

You were so right to listen to your own logic, when it came to your children!
About what is being discussed here; about the honesty, I remember an unpleasant time I had at a church I had belonged to. There was this guy who was being inappropriate with me in a very creepy way, and had started to avoid gatherings where it usually happened. When somebody asked why I absent so much, I explained about this guy. When I tried to bring it before those in authority, I was flat out disbelieved, accused of libel, and threatened with a lawsuit by the guy's wife.

 

[Autistamatic]

Some people might not like to hear an honest opinion because it doesn’t fit with what they believe.

disrupts their equilibrium, shakes up their core beliefs. May have to consider an idea different to the one they’re comfortable with.

My own honesty comes from my knowledge about my own reality...
... which I suspect may be a lot different than the person I’m speaking with.

I’m going to use “Does my butt look big in this ?”

I believe it’s genetics, diet and lifestyle that determines butt size and the asker, deep down, already knows the answer.

Will you confirm their ...insecurity(?)... about their body

Or will you avoid honesty about specifics,
and tell them they look fabulous and the colour of clothing really suits them ?
Which will be an honest answer,
Just not the question you were asked.

That's an example I've used endlessly

Honest answers:
"Yes you have a fat arse, but I think you're lovely anyway"
"No you have a skinny arse and you're asking me that for attention."

Evasive answers:
"Why do you have to ask, eh?"
"It doesn't matter what I think, what do YOU think?"

Diplomatic/tactful answers:
"It's no different than in any other outfit"
"I like you best in XXXX outfit, why don't you wear that?"

Dismissive answers:
"Don't fuss about that or we'll be late"
"Do you really think anyone's going to be staring at your behind?"

@Fridgemagnetman answer:

 

[Zoie]

Seems the majority of us on the spectrum is honest to a fault. I see it in a lot of threads and I've definitely seen it in my own life. You know, I always thought and told people that you can say anything to anyone if you use the right tone. I'm starting to think maybe I was wrong. lol
For one thing I'm not as clear as I think I'm being - I've learned that being on here. When I think I have made a point and the majority responds in a way that I realize I have not made my point - which I actually appreciate honesty and being made aware (most NT's just kind of ignore you and go on but never question anything like we do). I really do like that - that we question things and are honest because how will you otherwise know the truth and I'd much rather base anything on truth than pretense.
But my question is why doesn't anyone believe it when I make a statement? When my kids were teenagers I would tell them, ie: If you go somewhere without asking first I will take away your internet privileges for a week. My son goes somewhere without asking. I change the password and he's furious because he didn't think I would. Or, as I said in a response to another thread, I tell my husband that I'm getting close to that point that I will be done and once I get there there's no hope. Nothing changes and I get to that point and he's shocked. I warn people what will happen (just because I know me) and it means nothing to them.
I had a boss ask me a question and I answered truthfully then went to lunch. When I got back from lunch everyone was asking what I had said to her because she was crying after.
No, I don't give fake compliments. If you ask me I'll tell you the truth - even if it's something about myself that I'd rather people not know.
I like what @Autistamatic said in one of his Empathy videos about sometimes what seems like lack of empathy is lack of knowledge on our part - we can not say, "Oh, yes, your boyfriend is a terrible cheat" if we do not know that to be a fact, because we don't feel we're being honest.
Some things I'm used to people not believing - there are some things about my past that I wouldn't believe if someone tried to tell me that happened to them. Or they don't believe the degree of difficulty doing certain things and being in certain situations.
But in general, I like us because we can be honest and we can question things and we make up a world of real reality. (nothing fake here)

I think I can relate with your experience. I'm consistently honest [to a fault], and it seems to me that other people are typically honest when doing so may serve their own interest.
This may appear to be a sociological matter of character, and can easily be viewed as the differing levels of morality maintained by myself versus others. If it's a matter of how one chooses to present/conduct themselves within society, I like to conduct myself as a trustworthy, reliable person.
(People are more-or-less honest... Some are moral-less! *Pun-intended.*)
However, delving deeper, there may be neurobiological differences at the root of this deviation in 'honesty'.
Rather than 'honest' simply being a personality trait which one may demonstrate to varying degrees, I think that at the basis case-explanation is that 'truth' is a value certain people strongly associate with, or choose to integrate into their core behavior, resulting from core cognitive differences associated with autism-spectrum disorders.
I am consistently honest [to a fault]. I speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; it's truly compulsive in nature--I have no censor and no filter! I blurt out everything I know, driven by this apparent NEED to explain everything in order to explain myself. (This is done anxiously, and in a tight voice, for the fear I might leave out an important detail, or have said something which might require more explanation, or for fear I have confused the person with all these details--which really spurs me to start vomiting unsolicited truths/facts everywhere... at which point I am literally just reciting/recounting everything I know about the subject at hand...) mediate the horrible anxiety I experience when I'm uncertain if I'm conveying myself accurately to the other party.
I hate, hate, HATE being misunderstood. And I hate for others to misunderstand. I hate ambiguity, it makes me uncomfortable, and I desperately want everybody to be on the same page. THIS is ultimately why I am honest to a fault: I am trying to communicate PERFECTLY with others. How can I expect them to see the truth and understand me, if I am not 100% honest with them?
It is so, so painful for me when others "miss the truth". When they can't see me, even though I'm standing right in front of them, waving my arms. When they can't hear me, even though I'm yelling (fun fact: 'yelling' actually makes it harder for people to understand what you're trying to say, apparently!) When they can't understand what I am trying to say, even though I'm saying everything I know in order for them to know what I know.
I say nothing [but social fillers with no real substance], or I say everything. I just can't stop myself from saying too much. I don't have efficient "brakes" and am poor at "shifting gears" in conversation. I struggle to read the other person's nonverbal behavior as I speak, so I go on taking shots in the dark...
While I do make attempts to speak more thoughtfully, the end result is I develop halting speech patterns [characterized by slowness, hesitation, and frequent pauses due to uncertainty over what to say next].

Full disclosure is an automatic response to feeling as if I am being put on the spot. If someone inquires something of me or prompts me in any way, there isn't really a choice in my mind: I automatically answer completely, fully, honestly. It seems like the safest option I have: clear, full-disclosure that leaves as little room as possible for a misunderstanding.

It sucks to reveal the uncomfortable truth sometimes, but at least I'm on the same page with this person, and this person is on the same page as me now.

It seems to me that other people are typically honest only in cases when it serves one's own interest.
For me, being 100% honest 100% of the time IS my own best interest.

 

[Major Tom]

I learned this quite a while ago, I keep my observations to myself now. Nobody wants to hear things contradictory to what their upbringings/egos tell them is true. Only during periods of extreme duress do people see the truth and then act surprised.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

Most of what NTs say is not vapid and is often absolute. Emotions are not typically vapid, unless it is something like the ND poster here the other day who is "in love" with a public figure. It's my experience that the higher functioning the autistic person, the more capable they are of lying. LFAs rarely lie because they lack the guile and manipulative qualities of others.

I'd like to hear from others here who are married or close to NTs about their thoughts on this.

I think vague or imprecise might be better terms than vapid. Since some of the people I love are NTs and I know them to be good, kind, caring people I do not judge them as vapid just because they express themselves differently to how I do. We all have emotions but how we interpret them and express them differs and there are significant differences between NDs and NTs and yet we can understand each other fairly well if we both are open to trying. Some people do use hyperbolic expressions to convey their feelings but not al NTs do.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

Honesty is definitely something that should be appreciated more, especially in the world were everything is so fake. People overall seem to treat it like a game - to guess what is true and what not, to pretend to be oblivious about some things, to lie to make yourself seem just that bit more worthy, of a bit higher status than others. I don't like this game and hypocrisy but it doesn't mean that honesty is always good. It's not. There are also different ways of saying something truthfully. You may do it gently, make a subtle mention not to hurt another person's feelings - or be brash and harsh, and no-nonsense - and make a lot of enemies.

Exactly. Tact is important for communication and some on the spectrum can learn it better than others can so we will all differ in our ability to employ it. Some truths do not need to be spoken at all and others can be worded carefully to avoid hurt feelings. Some of the challenge comes from realising what will hurt though this can be taught either directly or through experience.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

, or I say everything. I just can't stop myself from saying too much. I don't have efficient "brakes" and am poor at "shifting gears" in conversation. I struggle to read the other person's nonverbal behavior as I speak, so I go on taking shots in the dark...

Full disclosure is an automatic response to feeling as if I am being put on the spot. If someone inquires something of me or prompts me in any way, there isn't really a choice in my mind: I automatically answer completely, fully, honestly. It seems like the safest option I have: clear, full-disclosure that leaves as little room as possible for a misunderstanding.QUOTE]


I was nodding my head as I read your words and particularly these parts above. Thank you for articulating this.

 

[Clueless in Canada]

Been married for 24 years now, I don't know if it is an "NT" thing as much as a personality trait but I have noticed people like to use guilt to manipulate others.

And if you are on the spectrum and undiagnosed, convinced over your lifetime that you must be broken, it's easy for someone to manipulate you and convince you that you are the one always in the wrong. At least, that is my experience.

 

[JDShredds]

This topic makes me want to bang my head against a wall or a table because of how its always been an issue in my life.

People just don't seem to understand that I mean what I say. I can outright tell them "No, seriously, when I say something, I mean it. I don't say things to be nice." Yet it just never seems to sink in. They always find a way to read between the lines to look for something that isn't there - or they act shocked when I speak the inconvenient truth or do exactly what I said I would do that they for one reason or another thought wasn't serious.

There are certain things that I think ND's are better at than NT's. ACTUAL honesty is one of them. The beauty is what comes with it: When I care about someone, they will encounter one of the most sincere, genuine and loyal people they'll ever meet. I know this by simple observation of what most people are like and how I'm so much different. I don't "play games" with people.

 

[Pats]

Some people might not like to hear an honest opinion because it doesn’t fit with what they believe.

disrupts their equilibrium, shakes up their core beliefs. May have to consider an idea different to the one they’re comfortable with.

My own honesty comes from my knowledge about my own reality...
... which I suspect may be a lot different than the person I’m speaking with.

I’m going to use “Does my butt look big in this ?”

I believe it’s genetics, diet and lifestyle that determines butt size, not clothing. and the asker, deep down, already knows the answer.

Will you confirm their ...insecurity(?)... about their body

Or will you avoid honesty about specifics,
and tell them they look fabulous and the colour of clothing really suits them ?
Which will be an honest answer,
Just not the question you were asked.

I'll never tell someone their butt looks big in something, but I may suggest something else, with a "Maybe it's the color" or something like that.

 

[Fino]

It's not like "big" is an objective decision! I'd just change my perspective on what "big" means by imagining larger things, like buildings and stars, and then suddenly I'd say out-loud in complete, almost surprised honesty, "No, not even close!"

 

[Pats]

You were so right to listen to your own logic, when it came to your children!
About what is being discussed here; about the honesty, I remember an unpleasant time I had at a church I had belonged to. There was this guy who was being inappropriate with me in a very creepy way, and had started to avoid gatherings where it usually happened. When somebody asked why I absent so much, I explained about this guy. When I tried to bring it before those in authority, I was flat out disbelieved, accused of libel, and threatened with a lawsuit by the guy's wife.

That's a real shame. Eventually he'll be found out though.