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Need help dealing with this friendship!!

A

Anon

New Member
Hi! I really need some advice on how to be with my friend with Aspergers. We started being friends at the beginning of the year because my friend and I saw he was lonely. At first things were good but then they started getting kind of bad, and now its at a point i dont know what to do. Sometimes, a lot of times, he does things that i dont find okay to do. Im talking about lying(constantly), being manipulative, being rude to other people for no reason, ect. I'll give some examples from today alone. I was walking with my friend and him and she said something to him and he said "I dont know you." and continued acting like he had no clue who she was, when he did? This is weird to me because it isnt the first time he's done this. He always tells me how much he wants friends but it seems like he will deny anyone that isnt a pretty girl (i am in no way trying to be big headed:confused: but if i were to show you the people he tries to be friends with, you would most likely agree!!). Another thing he did was we were walking and he saw my friend and he ran away from me, down the stairs, to the next building at school to get to her without even saying goodbye to me? When I asked him about it, he began to guilt trip me like he always does:anguished:. He blamed him running away on him having Asperger which has nothing to do with that. He often brings up him having Aspergers which i have read a lot of people with that dont do, and that makes me feel like he tries to use that to make me feel bad :(. Overall i just need some advice on how to deal with things like this because its getting to the point I dont want to talk to him at all and i do not want that to happen! I just need to know if i should address issues with him to him as i do my other friends? Or is this rude? Btw he is 17 years old, senior is high school. There is much more I need to say/ask about but this is already super long. Any advice helps!!
 
Hmmmm ... well I'm a teacher with Asperger's, so I'll take a try at offering advice.

First off - I'd like to thank you for taking the time to try to be friends with this person. That's really nice of you and I do appreciate and understand your concerns.

By now you have probably realized that being friends with someone who has Asperger's can be very challenging. You should understand that your friend may have trouble reading your emotions .. or if he understands that you're upset, he may not understand WHY you are upset. It doesn't help that many aspies are quite introverted and that we find the act of socializing to be extremely stressful.

One thing you want to consider doing is to try explaining social rules to him ... one rule at a time as these problems occur. Social rules that you learned growing up as a child such as how to take turns, saying please or thank you, knowing how to greet someone or how to say goodbye or how to participate in a conversation by listening and responding to comments made by other people ... these are some skills that some aspies have problems with.

For example, you might explain that it's rude for people to just leave a friend without saying goodbye. If he interrupts a conversation, you might point out that (in a calm soft voice without being angry) that he was rude and that he should have waited for the other person to finish talking before he said anything.

Most autistic people have a strong sense of fairness, so explaining the unwritten rules of social conduct could be very helpful to this person.
 
[QUOTE="Anon, post: 257363, member: 14076"we were walking and he saw my friend and he ran away from me, down the stairs, to the next building at school to get to her without even saying goodbye to me? When I asked him about it, he began to guilt trip me like he always does:anguished:. He blamed him running away on him having Asperger which has nothing to do with that.[/QUOTE]
Actually; that sounds very much like an aspergic behaviour. I am not diagnosed, but I also used to get in trouble for not saying "hello" or "goodbye" people. It wasn't until people pointed it out to me that I realized I had committed a transgression.

It should by no means be impossible for your friend to learn these social conventions, the process is just not as intuitive for him as it is for most people. He will likely need such things spelled out for him, and even then it will take time to make these behaviours habitual.
 
thank you! I've been wanting to explain things to him but I wasn't sure if that would rude of me. I appreciate the advice a lot! If you don't mind me asking, I need some advice on something else too. The girl that he ran from me to go to is my friend who he has become kind of obsessed with. I know this is something that's not in his control so I dont want to say something to upset him when it's not his fault, but sadly she tries to avoid him at all cost and he's noticed this and always ask me for help not losing her as a friend. She has told him along with other people that he needs to give her some space but I'm assuming he doesnt understand what that means because he will still run after to her every time he even thinks he sees her, message her constantly everyday even though she doesn't answer, and other things that make her uncomfortable. Ive tried to explain to him what giving space means too and he doesnt get it so i dont know what to do :(. Should I just let the friendship end and hope he will stop or should I try to explain that what he does is not okay even though I already know its going to make him very very upset(he gets upset for days and cries over small things and I can only imagine what would happen if i told him that) Im stuck here!!
 
I feel like I should have clarified on that, it's not that he has a problem with saying goodbye. Everyday we walk together and he knows to say hello and goodbye and will even say it multiple times haha! But this one specific thing upset me because he puts her over me when she doesnt even want to be his friend and he knows that but he still left me, the person that talks to him 24/7, for her! Thank you for responding though :)!
 
I would explain to him what is appropriate and not appropriate for the situation. Yes, I would tell him what ting someone space means, but remember that you are just a friend, so be careful. I agree with what they are telling you to do. Try it and see what happens. The worse he could do is say you aren't his friend anymore. But try to explain, if that doesn't work, then try have a mediator between you. Maybe some of your other friends could help you think this through.
 
It might help if you wrote out your thoughts about this situation and gave them to your friend. This would give you more time to formulate what you want to convey while allowing your friend more time to process said information.

In doing this try not to sounding acusatory and avoid "you" statements. He might still get very upset, but at least it will be in a safer environment. Also; sometimes people need to be told hard truths in order to develop. Your friend is essentially a stalker at this point and he needs to realize how unhealthy that is.
 
I know more than a little about trying to help a socially awkward and, let's be frank here, needy young guy through situations. Some of the things you are describing aren't simply about Asperger's, though it of course makes things harder, so let's work through each of them.

First:

Does anybody with a deeper understanding of the spectrum than myself have a take on his lying? This seems very strange to me, and frankly I can't connect it with Asperger's directly. If it's a coping mechanism, is it an attempt at humor? That is my best guess, because otherwise it seems like a rather problematic trait. I knew a few people who would attempt to convince people of blatant lies back in junior high and high school, and one rather more recently, and it was generally connected to some other unpleasant social attributes.

While I don't want to throw anyone who is trying to work through a genuine issue under the bus, a combination of malicious lying (if it is that) and some other things that have been mentioned, would be a point of concern for me. Again, my first guess would be that this is an attempt at humor, but I'd like the opinion of somebody else on this.
 
Hey donn,
Are you an Aspie or NT? I don't understand your viewpoint here.
 
Anon said:
thank you! I've been wanting to explain things to him but I wasn't sure if that would rude of me. I appreciate the advice a lot! If you don't mind me asking, I need some advice on something else too. The girl that he ran from me to go to is my friend who he has become kind of obsessed with. I know this is something that's not in his control so I dont want to say something to upset him when it's not his fault, but sadly she tries to avoid him at all cost and he's noticed this and always ask me for help not losing her as a friend. She has told him along with other people that he needs to give her some space but I'm assuming he doesnt understand what that means because he will still run after to her every time he even thinks he sees her, message her constantly everyday even though she doesn't answer, and other things that make her uncomfortable. Ive tried to explain to him what giving space means too and he doesnt get it so i dont know what to do :(. Should I just let the friendship end and hope he will stop or should I try to explain that what he does is not okay even though I already know its going to make him very very upset(he gets upset for days and cries over small things and I can only imagine what would happen if i told him that) Im stuck here!!
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He probably knows what it means to give someone space-it's just that his obsession is so powerful, that he ends up following what the obsession tells him to do (run after her). It's like an addiction-someone addicted to cigarettes knows what not-smoking is, but their addiction is so powerful that it's painful not to follow it.
 
Mywaysigning said:
Hey donn,
Are you an Aspie or NT? I don't understand your viewpoint here.
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Self-diagnosed Aspie - I'm on the high end in regards to social skills, however, and I'm wondering if anyone who deals with more social issues can shed light on his tendency to lie before I jump to conclusions.

None of my quirks have ever tended towards lying. In fact I and most Aspies I have talked to here are all remarkably honest people. So then why is this young man habitually lying?

I have some experience with people who engage in arbitrary and blatant lying, but never anybody whom I knew to be Aspie. I have seen it on rare occasions with people who are attempting, badly, to be funny, which may be the case here. However, in all other cases, people who engage in habitual lies, such as insisting for a whole conversation that they "don't know" a friend, also engage in other problematic behaviors. Particularly, they tend to engage in more subtle attempts to manipulate or use people for their own emotional gain; I could identify signs of this in what the young lady has posted.

While I'm obviously all for helping out a fellow Aspie and helping his behaviors be understood, I don't understand why he would engage in blatant lies - at least not in the context of Aspergers. I'd like to see if anyone else can furnish a reason, or affirm that perhaps my theory that this is mostly a poor attempt at humor, in which case it is mostly harmless. Otherwise, I think it is something that needs to be scrutinized with more caution.
 
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Yeah. Some things I don't understand either. All of my Aspie friends are remarkably honest with me and others. This situation seems odd to me, but why not try to help. Obviously there needs to be some intervention.
 
Mywaysigning said:
Yeah. Some things I don't understand either. All of my Aspie friends are remarkably honest with me and others. This situation seems odd to me, but why not try to help. Obviously there needs to be some intervention.
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"Help" in this case, is not confined to simply making things easier for the young man with Aspergers. I am also interested in looking out for the young lady herself.

If nobody can come up with why some of his actions are related to Asperger's, then I have plenty of experience with this in NT's, and non-Aspie ND's. Habitual blatant lies, extremely dramatic reactions to the slightest criticism, regular guilt trips, and other elements here - they are all perfectly familiar to me. In the end, I've been far better off each time I distanced myself from them or removed them from my life completely. I may have some other advice on how to handle the matter, but it will seem callous if indeed somebody can show that this is centered on Aspergers.

Obviously, Anon is not only open minded and caring enough to befriend a social outcast, but also loyal and giving enough to come here and ask questions. I'd wager she's the sort of person who would feel horrifically guilty if she felt she let this young man down. I've seen people like that be exploited; I've been that person. If all we say is "do this and do that to help with Aspergers" she may take the role of always giving in to eccentricities, including those which are entirely of his own making, and not look out for herself.
 
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Well, if nobody has any other reasoning for his actions, I'll go ahead and give my point of view.

Your friend has Asperger's, which makes some things difficult for him. As a result of this, he has had additional issues making friends, communicating, etc. You are already aware of these points, no doubt.

However, many people who have social issues take a stance which is not only unhealthy towards their own selves, but potentially toxic to those who try and care for them. For instance, I have seen a number of young people who would throw an emotional tantrum and sulk for days if their behavior was criticized. This wasn't because they had Asperger's, it was because they enjoyed playing the part of the victim. They took a masochistic pleasure in feeling persecuted and defeated while also looking for sympathy points from those around them. Many of these people also engaged in blatant and pointless lies and often pursued "friendships" largely along the lines of sexual or other exploitative interests, including emotional exploitation.

In short, I see all of these traits in your friend. I firmly believe that he has difficulties that arise directly from being an Aspie and difficulties because of the attitude he has adopted towards these difficulties and society at large. The latter must not be coddled. You are giving him friendship and affection, something you owe nobody, and he has no right to guilt you while you try hard to be there for him and he makes no effort.

I have had people in my life who partook of this melodramatic moping. Once I could see that this was their chosen behavior, I'd call it out - the better of them would brace up after a friendly encouragement and supportive scolding, and we'd be all the closer for it. Those that expressly chose to maintain this attitude either had to drop the topics that brought out this side of them or I'd drop the relationship.
 
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