Whale vertebra?

[Callistemon]

Dear all-you-sciency-marine-type-people

Here's something we found on a remote local beach. It's as tall as a person.



It's definitely bone, and old. Here's a close-up of the bottom bit...



I'm guessing this is the vertebra of a large whale - possibly a blue whale. So is that the size of its spinal projection, and therefore the depth of the back muscle on that critter? We had a marine biologist stay with us recently who couldn't quite decide if it was a spinal projection, or a rib. I would have expected a rib to be curved but apparently whale ribs can be quite straight!

Here it is from the other side, with a person on it for scale!



Anyone here who can throw more light on this?

 

[Kalinychta]

Wow that’s amazing! Did your biologist friend say how old he thought it was?

 

[Callistemon]

No, she wasn't out there with us, she only saw these photos! And she was a specialist on the social behaviours of dolphins, not whale anatomy...

We both had enough general anatomy training from our respective degrees to get this far...

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

@Gerald Wilgus ???? Thoughts

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Hmmmm . . . . . I can't quite see sufficient detail. The neural spine coming off the top of the vertebra should look like an inverted Y with a space for the spinal cord. Plus the longest are in the lumbar region and are flat. Plus I don't see any transverse processes coming out the sides. The shape reminds me more of a cervical vertebra, but it looks more like the posterior of a skull that the spinal column attaches to. I cannot account for the tall column. Sorry I cannot help. A better anatomist is needed than I.

I once found a battered cervical vertebra from a Gorgasaurus in the Drumheller, Alberta badlands. But the things that interested me were the ossified tendons that formed the Duckbill Dinosaur tails into a semi rigid structure.

 

[Callistemon]

Hmmmm . . . . . I can't quite see sufficient detail. The neural spine coming off the top of the vertebra should look like an inverted Y with a space for the spinal cord. Plus the longest are in the lumbar region and are flat. Plus I don't see any transverse processes coming out the sides. The shape reminds me more of a cervical vertebra, but it looks more like the posterior of a skull that the spinal column attaches to. I cannot account for the tall column. Sorry I cannot help. A better anatomist is needed than I.

Ah, so this is why the marine biology person I was talking to thought it might be a rib! No neural canal. I remember wondering about where the spinal nerve ran when I was looking at that on the shore.

Initially I thought the flattish bit I'm standing on it might be a part-skull as well, but couldn't make heads or tails of the huge projection in relation to that idea...

I once found a battered cervical vertebra from a Gorgasaurus in the Drumheller, Alberta badlands. But the things that interested me were the ossified tendons that formed the Duckbill Dinosaur tails into a semi rigid structure.

Ah, wow, that would have been interesting!

...if my brain starts to ossify with age, will future palaeontologists wonder what they're seeing?

 

[Judge]

Nancy: "Ron, what kind of vertebrae do you think it could be?"
Ron: "Whale......"

Me: I concur with the president. But what species of cetacean, I'm not sure.

Interesting googling all the whale/orca vertebrae images though. Just can't find any that best match the images above. Though googling "cetacean vertebrae" sure brings up a lot of varied images. Gotta love a mystery.

Watson: "Any ideas, Holmes?"
Holmes: "Not yet, Watson. But the game is afoot."
Watson: "I thought it was a vertebrae we're talking about."
Holmes: "Muck off, Watson."

 

[Callistemon]

Gawd, having to CHOOSE these emojis when more than one applies! I was laughing too, @Judge, so you should have a "like" and a "funny" - plus a "creative" for how you're presenting this!

 

[Callistemon]

By the way, it's definitely bone, and clean enough not to be recent, although my dog still thinks it smells really interesting, and she looked at me quizzically when I said, "Bone, Jess!" to her as she was sniffing all over it!

...she knows the word, as I always ask, "Do you want a bone?" before giving her one, and if I do this even before we're in the door she will look at me and lick her lips. She has quite a vocabulary: The words for car, walk, various foods, various toys (she'll bring the right one), water, hot, splish (our word for swimming opportunity, for her), Max (neighbour's dog), doggie etc etc. We sometimes have to spell certain words around the house to avoid her overhearing...

 

[Gerontius]

That is a very interesting bone & I'm waiting to see what it turns out to be... wouldn't it be something if it is from a newly discovered species of dinosaur?

 

[Callistemon]

...maybe the tall projecting bit is from the front end of a whale and the flattish bit is a part of the skull after all, @Gerald Wilgus - and maybe it has a cervical vertebra attached to it? I still can't quite figure it out.

Does anyone here have one of those 3D-puzzle minds that enable them to look at the head of this whale skeleton and the picture of the UFO from the beach and work out which bit it could be?

Those nasal bones could be a candidate - they're pretty straight...if you split them along the line...and would remove the bamboozlement from having a spinal projection that deep (which we've probably already eliminated), or from the lack of curvature making a bad fit for a rib...

 

[Callistemon]

That is a very interesting bone & I'm waiting to see what it turns out to be... wouldn't it be something if it is from a newly discovered species of dinosaur?

The dinosaur species would have to be still around, in that case.

If I've confused anyone with the description of the bone as "not recent" - I meant the decay process is complete as far as I can tell (although my dog still thinks it smells interesting compared to the rocks around it - she was sniffing it with great interest).

Also it seems pretty bleached and a bit eroded from being out in the weather. Not particularly fresh bone, from a carcass point of view.

 

[Kalinychta]

Does anyone here have one of those 3D-puzzle minds that enable them to look at the head of this whale skeleton and the picture of the UFO from the beach and work out which bit it could be?

You saw a UFO at the beach as well?

 

[Gerontius]

The dinosaur species would have to be still around, in that case.

If I've confused anyone with the description of the bone as "not recent" - I meant the decay process is complete as far as I can tell (although my dog still thinks it smells interesting compared to the rocks around it - she was sniffing it with great interest).

Also it seems pretty bleached and a bit eroded from being out in the weather. Not particularly fresh bone, from a carcass point of view.

Oh neat!

I missed that part about it being fairly fresh & was wondering if it was recently uncovered fossil bone. Very interesting that it's fresh.

 

[Owliet]

That’s a really cool find. It reminds me of the time I found a whole lemon shark on a beach once, it was very exciting.

 

[Callistemon]

You saw a UFO at the beach as well?

I can't see your face so probably the all-possibilities-covered reply here should be, "Yes, a metaphorical UFO."

DH and I are always playing word games and looking for fun, ridiculous epithets. So any object we don't know is a UFO whether or not it flies!

And anyway, you could make anything fly given enough force, however temporarily...

 

[Callistemon]

Oh neat!

I missed that part about it being fairly fresh & was wondering if it was recently uncovered fossil bone. Very interesting that it's fresh.

But of course, you're right in that it would be wonderful to discover a new species of dinosaur, no matter how permanently dead it is!

Or any bit of dinosaur actually that's not already in a museum...

 

[Atrapa Almas]

If it just apeared in the middle of the beach, no other rests of animals arround, in an unstable position (vertical vs horizontal) and close to an human location my bet is that is manmade. It also seems like a vertebrae, but that tree-like spike and the plate at the other end like there was a skull bone fixed to the vertebrae and the spike...

Maybe some kind of art, or a nice joke? A marketing campaing?

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kalinychta]

I can't see your face so probably the all-possibilities-covered reply here should be, "Yes, a metaphorical UFO."

DH and I are always playing word games and looking for fun, ridiculous epithets. So any object we don't know is a UFO whether or not it flies!

And anyway, you could make anything fly given enough force, however temporarily...

Ohhhh I see, ha!
You could call it the UBO. Unidentified Beached Object.

 

[Callistemon]

If it just apeared in the middle of the beach, no other rests of animals arround, in an unstable position (vertical vs horizontal) and close to an human location my bet is that is manmade. It also seems like a vertebrae, but that tree-like spike and the plate at the other end like there was a skull bone fixed to the vertebrae and the spike...

Maybe some kind of art, or a nice joke? A marketing campaing?

Just my 2 cents.

No, definitely bone and not man-made, @Atrapa Almas, and no joke and not something glued together etc. We live in the Roaring Forties where king waves regularly toss huge granite boulders weighing tonnes high up on the shore, and this bit of skeleton's position is easily explained by this.

And you'd expect it to be with the spike up due to where its centre of gravity is.

We need a good anatomist!