problem with letting people I should know are my enemies back into my life,

[Els]

Just did a quick web search on ' how to discern people's motives' and there's quite a lot of material - others who share the same problem may wanna have a glance at some of that stuff. Just looking thru some now.

People are motivated by themselves and their belongings. I don't believe there's something that really helps in discerning whether or not the person is hiding something or is being really kind and friendly. All you can do is to check it over time.
I enjoy hearing and asking people about what they are thinking about other people. What they think about others, how they act about them, how they react in this or that situation, is likely to be how they'll behave with me. 100% sure that I won't be the exception for this person. That's how I get my informations. Most people don't lie when they tell you about their stories or the stories of other people or talk about their morals and so on. I've met people who lie about this through, the best way is ALWAYS to rely on the actual actions and facts.

 

[Domani]

As a former INFP, I used to see people how I wanted to see them. Now as an INTJ, I think I now see them as they are. It doesn't mean I cut them off straight away but I am very cautious around them. Two red flags and I'm gone.

 

[garnetflower13]

After awhile you simply get sick of it, and you cut contact or fall out of contact. I've been in the same place. When an old friend who I've known since eighth grade called me a year or so ago after six years of silence, we talked a bit.

When I refused her request to visit and stay with me, she became quite nasty, and it was so familar. The difficult part is that you end up waiting for the next attack, because you know that eventually it will happen. No matter how nice and polite they are at first, on their best behaviour, it segues into something else, usually when alcohol or drugs are involved in some way at least in my own bio family's case. The less contact the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Part of the reason I've let people sometimes back into my life, is I guess I hope they're slightly different. That they have matured, that they somehow changed. Unfortunately that's usually not the case.

Yes, this is a good description of how it happens with me, as well. For some reason, I seem to think that just because I changed over time, that they have too. Then, surprise surprise! They haven't changed at all. I have a sister who will call after long silences, being super friendly and nice, cracking jokes, making me laugh. Then will come the snide digs disguised as jokes, passive aggressive remarks, etc. I have started to make the calls extremely short, whereas before I would stay on the phone longer. I don't want to cut her off completely, but it is getting more apparent each time that we have absolutely nothing in common except our blood.

 

[Aspychata]

The consistency of bad people staying bad and good people staying good is pretty much a constant. However l assume people are bad until they prove otherwise to me. Because the odds are that there are more bad people on the planet then good. So statistically- you need to play the odds and protect yourself. And assume the worst. I believe in logic and find no problems in data in - data out. The more economically depressed we become, there are more people becoming opportunists and view anybody as prey. But again statistics prove that young adults and elders are targeted more then middle age for all different reasons. So l do my best to not internalize but to understand the parameters. My boss just pointed out that servers are targeted because we have cash. I totally forgot, now l have another reason to be targeted.

 

[unperson]

Think voice tone/ facial expressions can bypass logic and knowledge, the appeal registers in some nonrational way. There's reasons why hypnotists a nd demagogues use voice tone. Whatdda they call it? Neurulinguistic programming.

 

[Ylva]

A lot of us were never allowed to have boundaries as children, and that conditioning lingers.

 

[unperson]

Absolutely Ylva, very astute comment.

 

[Aspychata]

Operating on logic is more a survival mode going back to my childhood.

 

[SDRSpark]

@SDRSpark I would expect to behave professionally around the VIP, not as friends. So if you have to be somewhat sociable around the VIP, managers, etc you can be friendly (not friends) towards them, but keep a professional distance. This is how I am all the time now. At the grocery store? Not friends, just there to complete a chore.

It's a hobby connection, not a professional one. I do NOT need them in any way. They might need me though (and I enjoy the fact that I'm useful to them still and they don't get to have access).

 

[George Newman]

Iwould add that we spend 1000 times more time cogitating over this than others!

In addition, the experience of being hurt or disappointed doesn’t only happen to those of us with autistic traits. This happens to everyone.

It is so hard to trust; to be friendly. It’s difficult to not become bitter, to close off completely.

The glorious reality of a true friendship means we keep trying but we must guard our joy, we must guard our hearts and sensibilities.

Great post. It’s got me thinking deeper on the topic and considering myself and what kind of friend I am to others.

Thank you.

 

[Jumpback]

Takes one to know one. I also don't have a lot of hidden agendas/motives, so get blindsided by others who do, sigh. Gotta be more cynical and selfish is probably the way to go.

I can’t do things like fake a friendly smile, so maybe it confuses me when others can.

 

[Els]

I must add, there's something else you can do in order to understand people's motives. Never assume that what someone is saying is a joke or irony. I've talked with plenty of people in my life, assuming that something totally insane they were saying was a joke. It might NOT be, no matter how "wtf" it seems. Some people WILL tell things that are completely insane, and yes, they believe in them. I had a relationship for a year and a half with someone telling totally insane stuffs, and I believed the person was joking and had a great sense of humor.
Do not assume that people are fun; do not assume that they didn't really said something they just said even if you cannot understand their thought system at all and it's confusing. They really say exactly what they intend to. There are very few people who don't say something on purpose and are honest about it. Most people who will say "I didn't really say/do/intent to (insert whatever).........." are playing with you.

 

[Els]

A lot of us were never allowed to have boundaries as children, and that conditioning lingers.

I totally agree, thanks for that As an adult I had to put a lot of thought and formulate my own boundaries for myself. I wrote things down in a notebook, in case I'm abused again. If I have a doubt, my principles are written there very clearly.

 

[menander]

This really has been a great post and very thought provoking. I think , after seeing all the responses, that there are many reasons why we do this. And NTs may do it, too!

I think with us, maybe it's harder for us to stop trying to understand it (or anything). So we and NTs have the same experience, they let go and move on, and we are back at square one like, "What? I don't understand!"

 

[SDRSpark]

I think with us, maybe it's harder for us to stop trying to understand it (or anything). So we and NTs have the same experience, they let go and move on, and we are back at square one like, "What? I don't understand!

This. This is me.

What happened? What did they mean? Did I deserve that? Is my memory of what happened correct? Why did they do that? Why WOULD they do that???

 

[Domani]

I think with us, maybe it's harder for us to stop trying to understand it (or anything). So we and NTs have the same experience, they let go and move on, and we are back at square one like, "What? I don't understand!"

This. This is me.

What happened? What did they mean? Did I deserve that? Is my memory of what happened correct? Why did they do that? Why WOULD they do that???

Exactly. This is also me. Some people leave me with my jaw on the floor. Why are we so highly principled? Is it our autism? I read that our brains are wired differently but how could it be a neurological difference rather than a psychological one? And why can't we do like NTs and move on? I do it now (shake my head and move on) but it's masking. I'll go back to that wtf moment again and again when my best friend plus several of my lawyers tried to scam me and wonder, "Why? Why?" Why can't I just chalk it up to experience and let it go?

Perhaps because "many feelings – such as fear, anger and joy – seem to be experienced more intensely by those with Asperger profiles than by average people." ?

Asperger Profiles: Emotions and Empathy – The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE)

 

[SDRSpark]

Exactly. This is also me. Some people leave me with my jaw on the floor. Why are we so highly principled? Is it our autism? I read that our brains are wired differently but how could it be a neurological difference rather than a psychological one? And why can't we do like NTs and move on? I do it now (shake my head and move on) but it's masking. I'll go back to that wtf moment again and again when my best friend plus several of my lawyers tried to scam me and wonder, "Why? Why?" Why can't I just chalk it up to experience and let it go?

Perhaps because "many feelings – such as fear, anger and joy – seem to be experienced more intensely by those with Asperger profiles than by average people." ?

Asperger Profiles: Emotions and Empathy – The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE)

Yep. I can *pretend* to let it go, but it's still going to be there.

 

[Els]

This really has been a great post and very thought provoking. I think , after seeing all the responses, that there are many reasons why we do this. And NTs may do it, too!

I think with us, maybe it's harder for us to stop trying to understand it (or anything). So we and NTs have the same experience, they let go and move on, and we are back at square one like, "What? I don't understand!"

Yes, for me any new situation is exactly this... new. And it recquieres an adaptability I lack. The worst is having understood something in most other situations, but then have to add all the exceptions to the rule. Very difficult.

 

[Aspychata]

So true. Everything here feels dead on. I have a internal voice that normally says : oh no you don't- they aren't a friend- smiling acting nice- you know that goes- how many more times do you need to fall into the rabbit hole. This lady told me to watch out for this person. That she will stab me in the back. Smiling faces, smiling faces tell lies my friend, and l got proof. This is a great old song. Go YouTube it.

 

[Domani]

From what I see posted here, we don't need to YouTube it. You're preaching to the choir here @Aspychata, lol.

But what do you do when someone is lying to you? Do you
a) Call them out on it?
b) cut them out of your life without explanation?
c) smile right back and pretend you're stupid?
d) other?