People don't believe or appreciate honesty

[Oldlady]

I will respond even though you have made it clear that you are unhappy with the discussion by saying 'I'm out'.

You don't know that speaking plainly doesn't work with me. It actually does.

"... a representation to illustrate the difference of what I'm trying to say." This just doesn't make sense.

Saying that something is very non-aspie would only bother someone who identifies strongly with the label 'Aspie'.

 

[Gracey]

I think Humans have a biological drive to get what we think we need.
Resources, reproduction, social groups and so on.

Perhaps it’s about motivation and consequences?

What stops me and others from stealing , lying, cheating and murdering to satisfy those biological drives/needs?

We’re all capable of it.
But we choose not to.

 

[Oldlady]

Yes, but is it just consequences? Would we all do things that are 'bad' if there were no consequences?

 

[Gracey]

Yes, but is it just consequences? Would we all do things that are 'bad' if there were no consequences?

It’s difficult to say (with confidence) what ‘all’ would do and my interpretation of ‘bad’ may be slightly different to the next person,

But in general, in order to get what we want or think we need, yes.

Having some idea of consequences may well act as a deterrent or curb certain behaviour.

I wouldn’t walk into a supermarket and steal my shopping, no matter how little money I had or hungry I was.

I’d find a different way to get food.

Why?

I know there are other ways to get food that don’t involve a criminal record.

I can’t handle the thought of a criminal record let alone the actual consequences of a real one.

 

[Oldlady]

This is interesting to me because I do think that, to a certain degree, we act 'good' due to our conscience and not just because of the consequences.

To be sure, consequences are a deterrent, but I think that many of us would not behave in a way that we felt was 'bad' even if there were no consequences.

 

[Gracey]

This is interesting to me because I do think that, to a certain degree, we act 'good' due to our conscience and not just because of the consequences.

To be sure, consequences are a deterrent, but I think that many of us would not behave in a way that we felt was 'bad' even if there were no consequences.

How does that come about, do you think?

We’re not born knowing right from wrong or what’s acceptable in the ‘group’ we’re going to grow up in. (What society expects or will accept)

Where do you, personally, think we get our ideas of ‘bad’ from?

 

[Oldlady]

Conscience comes about through evolutionary forces. We have developed morality over the eons and are indeed born with a sense of right and wrong. Although, that sense is admittedly subjective.

 

[WereBear]

Do you think others are ignoring their conscience or is it not as 'well developed'?

I think they are more capable of “persona switching.” They literally are a different person according to the social role they are playing in each instance: parent, employee, boss, friend, stranger.

 

[Tom]

It varies from situation to situation, but in many sorts of relationships unmeasured honesty is at times narrow and unkind or can be insulting. There are many nuances, unwritten rules, to interpersonnel relationships.

Its not bad in the case of establishing (reasonable) rules and consequences and then sticking to the consequences.

 

[Oldlady]

I think they are more capable of “persona switching.” They literally are a different person according to the social role they are playing in each instance: parent, employee, boss, friend, stranger.

Yes ... maybe that's why it's a lot easier for NT's to role play? I find it almost impossible to role play. It makes me feel very self conscious.

 

[Oldlady]

It varies from situation to situation, but in many sorts of relationships unmeasured honesty is at times narrow and unkind or can be insulting. There are many nuances, unwritten rules, to interpersonnel relationships.

Its not bad in the case of establishing (reasonable) rules and consequences and then sticking to the consequences.

There are indeed many nuances and rules ... many of which get shifted around according to the mood and tastes of others. It is very hard to keep up and quite frustrating.

The question is who decides whether the rules are reasonable and how they are interpreted?

 

[Gracey]

I’m going to need a minute to think about that

Doesn’t fit in with the knowledge I understand, to date.

We are born with a subjective sense of right and wrong ?

I’m genuinely curious Robin

(I have a grandbaby arriving; all being well, in six months time.
I’m blown away by the possibility of a sense of right and wrong in an infant)

Is there somewhere I can read up on any research into that please ?

 

[Oldlady]

I’m going to need a minute to think about that

Doesn’t fit in with the knowledge I understand, to date.

We are born with a subjective sense of right and wrong ?

I’m genuinely curious Robin

(I have a grandbaby arriving; all being well, in six months time.
I’m blown away by the possibility of a sense of right and wrong in an infant)

Is there somewhere I can read up on any research into that please ?

I am happy to share this link for starters, but there is much more out there on the subject.

Is Human Morality a Product of Evolution? - The Atlantic

 

[Pats]

Yes, but is it just consequences? Would we all do things that are 'bad' if there were no consequences?

no.

 

[Gracey]

Yes, but is it just consequences? Would we all do things that are 'bad' if there were no consequences?

Would bad exsist if there was nothing to mark it as ‘bad’

If there was nothing to let us know or learn something was considered bad.
?

 

[WereBear]

I can say that as soon as children can communicate and interact socially, we start to see a highly developed “sense of fairness” as in cookie size, bedtimes, all the comparisons that let them evaluate how they are treated.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Would bad exsist if there was nothing to mark it as ‘bad’

If there was nothing to let us know or learn something was considered bad.
?

Read about personality theory.

Kids are psychopaths till about two.

Their personality develops, in part, by internalising the voices of parents,caregivers.
Somamchils with an early vioent memory can develop a problem personality.

 

[Oldlady]

Would bad exsist if there was nothing to mark it as ‘bad’

If there was nothing to let us know or learn something was considered bad.
?

Good and bad are moral concepts. They exist in that we, as humans, use moral standards to guide our behavior. But, when and how did they arise? And why do humans seem to have a more complex moral system? What causes conscience?

Also, there is a book out called 'Blueprint' that indicates the latest research pointing to DNA as having the most profound influence on who we are, as opposed to our upbringing. This makes sense to me since children raised by the same parents in the same house can be so different.

 

[Oldlady]

I can say that as soon as children can communicate and interact socially, we start to see a highly developed “sense of fairness” as in cookie size, bedtimes, all the comparisons that let them evaluate how they are treated.

Absolutely. I can remember complaining to my mother that something wasn't fair. Her stock answer ... 'Fair? Whoever said anything was fair?'

 

[nowwhat]

Socializing is just the ruleset and framework that makes this economy of flattery function. It is ritualized affirmation play.