men...women...understanding

[epath13]

I wasn't sure how to name the post so I've just named it the way I've named it... I've just read a post, don't want to say anything in response because I think it's pointless but it makes me think... I do understand that folks on the spectrum are different both men and women and we do need more clarity sometimes from others but it seems to me that there're certain similarities between spectrum men and NT men and the same goes for the women... duh
like for instance, just tell me if you don't think like that, because I might be wrong here... men don't like when women are not clear about their intentions and women on the other hand consciously or subconsciously, want men to guess what they want, which is rarely possible. In my theory that is one of the reasons why so many women fall for good players (I don't mean slimy idiots) and men fall for women, for whom they are the heroes (at least that's how it appears to the men). In the 1st case women think that those men do guess their wishes and in the 2nd case men think they know what women expect from them.
Failed expectations cause so many issues in relationships especially when one or both partners are not clear about what they want. If one of them is on the spectrum it can become even more complicated. I for instance, have taken things literary so many times and needed very specific instructions in many situations, it is probably an issue for many other people as well. I tried to learn though... surprisingly I couldn't really. But anyway... I'm still a woman and somehow it seems I've also had this tendency to believe that men can or maybe even should guess what women want not anymore though my husband keeps telling me, that men like clarity and agrees with all the endless comedians and movies where the issue is mentioned. And I see and hear so many times when women don't understand why men don't see such obvious things... yeah...

what do you think about all this?

 

[kchapman1988]

as an aspie male clarity is important.

tell me EXACTLY what you want or mean and i can work with it, leave it vauge and you get random results and a pissed off aspie male. i'm blunt for a reason, this reason is i have enough trouble getting what i need to tell you across in plain english, leaving stuff out isnt helping anyone. its not ment to be a bloody guessing game, if you want things come out and say 'i want this this and this from you, i'm willing to do this this and this and hesitant to about these things but you depending on you i may be willing.'

 

[Mr Faramoose]

Seems to me that most ladies, especially those in relationships with men, expect that man to just know what to do, what they want from them and above all expect them not to question them about it. Almost like every man, spectrum or not, is supposed to be in tune with a woman's inner thoughts. Ok, this is annoying for most men and probably annoying for the women that do it, as perhaps as you said it's subconciously built into their head to think that way? So they probably get annoyed with men for not understanding their thought processes. But it's probably worse for men on the spectrum as we have trouble with hints and other people's thought processes anyway!:unsure:

 

[Amity Alpha]

I'm a woman and I much prefer clarity to ambiguity. I'm actually irritated by all the gender references in popular culture (comedians, movies, etc) because when they make reference to women as a class, it's usually based on a stereotype that doesn't fit me at all. I don't play guessing games, I have a tendency to take others literally, and I'm certainly not obsessive about my appearance, finding a partner, or ridiculous uncomfortable shoes.

The only place I do fit the stereotype is in being more emotionally sensitive than most men I know, but I see that as an aspect of being a Myers-Briggs F-type rather than a gender issue.

I've actually been told I'm 'like a man' when it comes to certain issues, like money management (in particular, expenditure), clutter reduction (it's a female trait to hoard useless items?), gift buying and receiving, interest in computers and the internet, and also just for being quiet, as if all women ought to be extroverts. I don't appreciate it. I'm not 'masculine,' I'm just me.

 

[Soup]

I'm a lot like you, Amity Alpha. without the more emotional part. I too hate all these simplistic reductionist gender stereotyping. I don't want or expect my husband to guess what I want. EVER. I have reason & a vocabulary & a voice: I can tell him what I want him to know.

As for men expecting to be the hero or rescuer, that's the old damsel in distress fantasy that makes the male powerful & a person of action & the woman as passive, helpless & in need of a man to take control of her life. NO THANKS! The danger with this kind of a guy is that he expects to be in the controlling position all the time & he expects the woman to be in need of guidance & dependent on him to make decisions. Well, that describes a little girl & her Daddy. Little girls grow up & many turn into educated professionals or join the army, become police officers or fire fighters etc.

The woman who expects a guy to guess, is an emotional bag of contradictions & confusion, needs guidance & someone to assert control or authority over her is someone who is very immature & never grew up. There are as many men out there who are like this too & the wife winds up always having to bail him out (sometimes literally!!) of a series of foolish situations. This isn't a sex driven dynamic. It has more to do with maturity & responsibility.

As for stereotypes about gender roles & gender expectaions, those are socially driven & have nothing to do with actual chromosome determined sex differences. Stuff like girls are shy, boys are rough. WE are the idiots who impose these expectations on children from infancy. We give a small girl all pink & lavender toys related to child care & domesticity. Boys get toys related to strength & power (muscular armed action figures, Tonka trucks & toys, toys that encourage action). Girls are depicted with a pink dress & hair ribbons, passively playing with little lavender ponies, Barbies, other dolls & interacting with each other. NATURE has nothing to do with this nonsense. WE do it to our kids, effectively limiting the potential of both sexes through genderization. Boys who would rather play with dolls than a football are chided, shamed & discouraged: homophobic Dads worry that it will turn their son gay. Girls who prefer to be rugged & active get the tomboy label.

These are NT social dymamics. We Aspies don't have to fall in line with these narrow-minded & ridiculous standards.

 

[Loomis]

i like a woman who is my equal. I remember one woman i was going out with a long time ago tell me "you took all the power." I did not take the power she gave it to me; some woman want to be subordinate. I do not like woman like that. My wife of 22 years was my equal. Neither of us was dominant. She was strong and so was I. When times were good we discussed everything, we never lied or were unfaithful; we had no secrets from each other. We fought fairly and we respected each other. That is what I want from a woman: a partner.

 

[Soup]

Your attitude ought to be cloned! What a breath of fresh air.

 

[Loomis]

Your attitude ought to be cloned! What a breath of fresh air.

Thanks soup. Nice talking to you on the shoutbox yesterday.

 

[LikeyouToMe]

I wasn't sure how to name the post so I've just named it the way I've named it... I've just read a post, don't want to say anything in response because I think it's pointless but it makes me think... I do understand that folks on the spectrum are different both men and women and we do need more clarity sometimes from others but it seems to me that there're certain similarities between spectrum men and NT men and the same goes for the women... duh
like for instance, just tell me if you don't think like that, because I might be wrong here... men don't like when women are not clear about their intentions and women on the other hand consciously or subconsciously, want men to guess what they want, which is rarely possible. In my theory that is one of the reasons why so many women fall for good players (I don't mean slimy idiots) and men fall for women, for whom they are the heroes (at least that's how it appears to the men). In the 1st case women think that those men do guess their wishes and in the 2nd case men think they know what women expect from them.
Failed expectations cause so many issues in relationships especially when one or both partners are not clear about what they want. If one of them is on the spectrum it can become even more complicated. I for instance, have taken things literary so many times and needed very specific instructions in many situations, it is probably an issue for many other people as well. I tried to learn though... surprisingly I couldn't really. But anyway... I'm still a woman and somehow it seems I've also had this tendency to believe that men can or maybe even should guess what women want not anymore though my husband keeps telling me, that men like clarity and agrees with all the endless comedians and movies where the issue is mentioned. And I see and hear so many times when women don't understand why men don't see such obvious things... yeah...

what do you think about all this?

I have written several smart arse replies to this... But I'm just going to go with "NAIL ON THE F**KING HEAD"!! So much so, I am sending thsi to my wife to read.... SO SHE CAN UNDERSTAND!!! I have told her this is different ways, but hopefully seeing that someone else has written this down will hopefully force it into her head.

THANK YOU!