let's talk about love

[kityoume]

when I was 16 I fell in love with a girl, I am also a girl. We talked and she meant a lot to me, but our relationship had difficulties because of her and because of me as well.

communication with her influenced many decisions in my life, after a few years of friendship we began to meet and live together. These relationships were difficult for me, but they had extra value.
I visited her in another city when we were teenagers, wrote poetry for her, moved to another city alone because I wanted to spend time with her, sent her letters and gifts.

in the future, for some reason, this all made me ashamed, I was ashamed that I loved someone so much, I thought that it might look humiliating. Although I enjoyed doing things for her, my life was filled with meaning and not depression at that moment. But for society, I found it humiliating to love someone.
I don’t know where this constant feeling of shame came from, but there was a lot of it for the fact that it was homosexuality, and for the fact that it seemed to me that, according to the rules of society, you don’t need to love anyone much, you look like a jerk with your love.

I still don't feel that love is a valid reason for something (I devalue it a lot) and also I don't feel that love is an adequate justification for some actions, I think it looks like a shame that I, for example, moved to another city from - for feelings.

Why does love and its expression cause me shame? did you have that?

 

[Georgia Galaxy]

I kind of understand that, but I've been somewhat lucky because I've only ever had crushes so far, so I haven't fully fallen in love yet. I haven't people that really spark my interest, being a different person myself. And when I do like someone, they're usually taken or a girl as well (I'm also a girl so I may be not straight). I think you shouldn't feel ashamed for how you feel and what to do, if it comes naturally then it's all good for you dude. Seems pretty good to me, you are valid <3

 

[AprilR]

Loving some people also made me ashamed, bc i thought my feelings were too intense and it disgusted me. It felt suffocating.

There was one person i loved though that loving him made me feel free, and i will always cherish those feelings. I think it was bc he was a great person and partly bc i was in a good place in my life at that point.

 

[Georgia Galaxy]

Loving some people also made me ashamed, bc i thought my feelings were too intense and it disgusted me. It felt suffocating.

There was one person i loved though that loving him made me feel free, and i will always cherish those feelings. I think it was bc he was a great person and partly bc i was in a good place in my life at that point.

Aww, that's oddly specific. I'm sorry you had to go through that confusion Aww that's good though, you must've had fun. I've also had some nice little relationships in the past (I'm only just turning 18 and have had several boyfriends already). Secretively, I'm glad none of them stuck with me

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Why does love and its expression cause me shame? did you have that?

I think in some ways this might be universal (or universal as a product of culture and etiquette).

Sonnet 125 by Shakespeare:

Th' expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and till action, lust
Is perjured, murd'rous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust,
Enjoyed no sooner but despisèd straight,
Past reason hunted; and, no sooner had
Past reason hated as a swallowed bait
On purpose laid to make the taker mad;
Mad in pursuit and in possession so,
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

Is it love itself which shames you? Or expressing love as an Autistic person? Perhaps it's just the nudity of desire we find shameful, as if no one should know what we like, what we want--or that we need.

 

[Rodafina]

Of course, it’s more complicated than this, but my two cents is that love makes us vulnerable. It taps into the most raw and vulnerable self that you can offer and if it doesn’t go well or is not reciprocated, it can make us feel weak and exposed. Also, with all the dopamine and oxytocin, it does do wacky things to your brain, taking over the usual commander, Reason.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

when I was 16 I fell in love with a girl, I am also a girl. We talked and she meant a lot to me, but our relationship had difficulties because of her and because of me as well.

communication with her influenced many decisions in my life, after a few years of friendship we began to meet and live together. These relationships were difficult for me, but they had extra value.
I visited her in another city when we were teenagers, wrote poetry for her, moved to another city alone because I wanted to spend time with her, sent her letters and gifts.

in the future, for some reason, this all made me ashamed, I was ashamed that I loved someone so much, I thought that it might look humiliating. Although I enjoyed doing things for her, my life was filled with meaning and not depression at that moment. But for society, I found it humiliating to love someone.
I don’t know where this constant feeling of shame came from, but there was a lot of it for the fact that it was homosexuality, and for the fact that it seemed to me that, according to the rules of society, you don’t need to love anyone much, you look like a jerk with your love.

I still don't feel that love is a valid reason for something (I devalue it a lot) and also I don't feel that love is an adequate justification for some actions, I think it looks like a shame that I, for example, moved to another city from - for feelings.

Why does love and its expression cause me shame? did you have that?

For context, I am 56 and have been with the same woman since we were 18 years old, married 36 years. She has a brother that came out as gay back in 1988 when there was still quite a bit of stigma and discrimination. Her parents were, at first, quite devastated. They were a "working class" family with conservative views on life. However, it wasn't long before they realized that their son hadn't changed, he was always the same person they loved, and that they were not going to reject him or his partner. They actually became members of PFLAG and were vocal advocates for their son. He and his partner have been together ever since. Our boys have always known having "two uncles" and at no point were there "questions", it just "was".

So, I just have to question whether or not you and your family have accepted your sexuality? I ask this, because loving someone deeply is absolutely a beautiful thing. Love is typically not something one should feel shame of, but if you and your family have not come to terms with your sexuality, this may be the underlying mechanism of your shame. Another thought is that if the people around you (parents, friends, etc.) have had "unstable" relationships, multiple relationships, always seeming to get hurt, upset, distrustful, etc. then they may be expressing some doubts about love and relationships. Not loving someone, but "liking and using", is less painful when the relationship breaks off. The thing about love, both parties have to fully commit in order for the relationship to work, it can't be imbalanced. I fully understand that if you are on the spectrum, a bit distrustful, been hurt, don't think you are worthy, etc. it can make you hesitate and question yourself and your relationship. It can add some "baggage". Furthermore, with many of us having varying degrees of "mind-blindness", we can have a difficult time assessing the other person's perspectives, motives, and intents, which can leave us questioning again. Learning to communicate with your partner is really the key here. It may not be romantic, but direct, accurate language is always best, even if it hurts them. Best not to "dance" around topics with "leading questions" or "hints", just get to the point.

 

[Knower of nothing]

When I initially fell in love with my current partner I was very ashamed of it as well. I thought it would ruin a perfectly good friendship, that it'd bother people, that it's some sort of betrayal. A whole bunch of stuff.
I think now this was mostly a translation of fear. Since you seem to have experienced a kind of reverse of this, maybe you can ask yourself if there's anything you're afraid of that may be related?

 

[kityoume]

When I initially fell in love with my current partner I was very ashamed of it as well. I thought it would ruin a perfectly good friendship, that it'd bother people, that it's some sort of betrayal. A whole bunch of stuff.
I think now this was mostly a translation of fear. Since you seem to have experienced a kind of reverse of this, maybe you can ask yourself if there's anything you're afraid of that may be related?

There were many fears, the main one being the fear of losing the object of love. I was afraid that they would leave me or that they would die, every day I had a lot of adrenaline from thinking about it. It was easier for me to build relationships with a small degree of immersion or with weak feelings for a person, because if I started to love someone it felt like I was mentally beaten.

 

[VictorR]

Of course, it’s more complicated than this, but my two cents is that love makes us vulnerable. It taps into the most raw and vulnerable self that you can offer and if it doesn’t go well or is not reciprocated, it can make us feel weak and exposed. Also, with all the dopamine and oxytocin, it does do wacky things to your brain, taking over the usual commander, Reason.

Is Reason the usual commander for everyone? I've definitely known some people where Passion clearly takes precedence over Reason, though I think I'd be inclined to agree that overall, Reason often leads.

In any case, for all of us, we find our daily lives betwixt amidst the battle between the two.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Is Reason the usual commander for everyone? I've definitely known some people where Passion clearly takes precedence over Reason, though I think I'd be inclined to agree that overall, Reason often leads.

In any case, for all of us, we find our daily lives betwixt amidst the battle between the two.

Plato and the chariot

 

[Neonatal RRT]

There were many fears, the main one being the fear of losing the object of love. I was afraid that they would leave me or that they would die, every day I had a lot of adrenaline from thinking about it. It was easier for me to build relationships with a small degree of immersion or with weak feelings for a person, because if I started to love someone it felt like I was mentally beaten.

There's a famous old saying often quoted from a poem , "Tis better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all."...Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Everyone has some thoughts and fears about loosing a love or a loved one. Communication and trust are key here. You can't let yourself get into that anxiety state of mind, as it is very destructive to your relationship, and frankly, your happiness. Once you've gotten settled into a loving, trusting relationship, all that anxiety and mental exhaustion fades away. As I suggested earlier, communication and trust are key, in other words DO NOT let your "issues" create a situation where you are wanting "control". No looking at phone and internet history, social media posts, GPS data. No "twenty questions" about what they did or who they talked to or what did you talk about. No jealousy. That's a sure-fire way to push someone out the front door. To put things into perspective, my wife does not NEED me. She has her career, she makes her own money, she has friends and family, she can look at other men, she can take care of herself, and I've specifically told her, if she wants to, she can walk right out the door. I say this because I love her enough to let her go. I want her to be happy. I don't ever control her. She reciprocates by not controlling me. So, here we are, some 36 years later, still with each other and we trust each other implicitly. If you can get to this point in your relationship, you don't think about loss anymore.

As my wife and I get older, we see friends and relatives pass away, you feel more and more "left behind", and thoughts of your mortality tends to creep into the conversation from time to time. Usually, it's around how to stay healthy as we age, or perhaps, getting that Will done, whatever. However, seriously, you must not obsess about these things until it actually becomes imminent and you actually have to make plans for it. Any prior thoughts of any anticipated pain associated with some loss, is a good way to NOT have love. It's the same thing with friendship. So many of us slowly develop varying degrees of "anti-social" behavior because we have been hurt in the past. The natural pathway towards reducing one's risk of getting hurt again, is to simply avoid "bonding" with anyone. I have my issues with it, as well. I don't have friends, but I have bonded with my wife very deeply.

 

[Knower of nothing]

There were many fears, the main one being the fear of losing the object of love. I was afraid that they would leave me or that they would die, every day I had a lot of adrenaline from thinking about it. It was easier for me to build relationships with a small degree of immersion or with weak feelings for a person, because if I started to love someone it felt like I was mentally beaten.

If it was such an overwhelming experience at the time, it's not that bizarre that you're a bit more averse to returning to a similar state now. That could be what's being expressed in shame, which is one of the averse emotions.

 

[Aspychata]

So remarkable to find someone, where you can hangout in your rawness, and your nudity, and they celebrate your authenticity and mutual friendship. And that you can run and hide, then return, and still be embraced and respected. I think what would he have been like if l met him in elementary school, because l would be hanging with him.

 

[Rodafina]

Is Reason the usual commander for everyone? I've definitely known some people where Passion clearly takes precedence over Reason, though I think I'd be inclined to agree that overall, Reason often leads.

In any case, for all of us, we find our daily lives betwixt amidst the battle between the two.

Good point!

 

[Markness]

So far in my life, love feels like a club that I can’t join because my invitation got lost in the mail.

 

[Rodafina]

So far in my life, love feels like a club that I can’t join because my invitation got lost in the mail.

No one got invites. Some people just crashed the party. Others decided to stay home. Some went to the party, got too drunk and ended up crying in the bathroom. There was no invitation and there is no club. Just unique experiences that vary in how happy they are.

Let’s not fool ourselves that love is permanent or easy once it is found. It is a messy business, rarely linear, and never static.

 

[330]

@VictorR Me feeling Betwixt -

 

[Aspychata]

Love can't be grasped, can't be boxed, you won't feel secure, you won't get your fix, you won't feel better, you will think free me, because being tortured seems plausible compared to being in love.

You haunt me

 

[Georgia Galaxy]

No one got invites. Some people just crashed the party. Others decided to stay home. Some went to the party, got too drunk and ended up crying in the bathroom. There was no invitation and there is no club. Just unique experiences that vary in how happy they are.

Let’s not fool ourselves that love is permanent or easy once it is found. It is a messy business, rarely linear, and never static.

That's a good point. Wow that's deep and I love it, it comforts me about my silly little experiences with it <3