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How you relate to fiction (a survey)

Nummulite

Nummulite

Member
Let's say you're reading a story, and something happens to one of the characters. I'll present three versions of this scenerio, and possible responses you might have.


1. The situation in the story is something you yourself have never experienced before (for example, the character's beloved dog dies, but you've never had a pet). The text doesn't explicitly tell you what he's experiencing inside.


  • A. You automatically have a pretty good understanding of what he might be experiencing, without having to stop and think about it much

  • B. You can probably put yourself in his shoes and understand what he might be experiencing, but only if you consciously try to

  • C. You are unable to put yourself in his shoes, and have no idea what he might be experiencing

  • D. Other


2. Now let's say that while you've never experienced this situation before, the text does describe his internal experience ("He was heartbroken. Every day he looked at the mat where his dog used to sleep, and felt like an important part of his life was missing forever"). A., B., C., or D.?


3. Now let's say the text doesn't describe his internal experience, but it's something you have experienced before (for example, your cat died when you were a kid). A., B., C., or D.?


Let me know if this doesn't make sense, or if I'm missing any other important factors.
 
I am not very imaginative in that respect, so I would need to have experienced something similar or have the internal state described. For fiction about relationships I enjoyed reading Henry James, as he had a way of describing a person's internal dialogue. In the theater, I enjoyed both The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nightime, and Spring Awakening. In the former the autistic character's inner state was described by the set and staging, while in the latter the musical numbers were used for that purpose.
 
Given that a story is fictional, the character didn't feel anything. We have to make assumptions as to what we would feel and apply them. If the author is good, you'll come to the set of feelings the author wanted you to. I imagine empathy for a fictional character is probably a uniquely human trait.

The best a human can do relative to another human is an empathic approximation. Projecting our feelings onto their canvas with whatever hints they've given us. Sometimes it is close and sometimes it is wildly errant. I know how I would feel. Another person might feel quite differently.
 
Nummulite said:
Let's say you're reading a story, and something happens to one of the characters. I'll present three versions of this scenerio, and possible responses you might have.


1. The situation in the story is something you yourself have never experienced before (for example, the character's beloved dog dies, but you've never had a pet). The text doesn't explicitly tell you what he's experiencing inside.


  • A. You automatically have a pretty good understanding of what he might be experiencing, without having to stop and think about it much

  • B. You can probably put yourself in his shoes and understand what he might be experiencing, but only if you consciously try to

  • C. You are unable to put yourself in his shoes, and have no idea what he might be experiencing

  • D. Other


2. Now let's say that while you've never experienced this situation before, the text does describe his internal experience ("He was heartbroken. Every day he looked at the mat where his dog used to sleep, and felt like an important part of his life was missing forever"). A., B., C., or D.?


3. Now let's say the text doesn't describe his internal experience, but it's something you have experienced before (for example, your cat died when you were a kid). A., B., C., or D.?


Let me know if this doesn't make sense, or if I'm missing any other important factors.
Click to expand...

A good writer makes A possible for all his readers, or at least most of them.
 
Au Naturel said:
Given that a story is fictional, the character didn't feel anything. We have to make assumptions as to what we would feel and apply them. If the author is good, you'll come to the set of feelings the author wanted you to. I imagine empathy for a fictional character is probably a uniquely human trait.

The best a human can do relative to another human is an empathic approximation. Projecting our feelings onto their canvas with whatever hints they've given us. Sometimes it is close and sometimes it is wildly errant. I know how I would feel. Another person might feel quite differently.
Click to expand...


That's a good point, I didn't think about that. I guess the purpose of my question is less about seeing how accurately people could extrapolate other people's experiences, and more about seeing how/if they try to extrapolate at all. I read that people on the spectrum were less likely to enjoy fiction because they don't naturally put themselves into the character's shoes, and I'm curious how accurate that is and if the circumstances matter
 
Nummulite said:
Let's say you're reading a story, and something happens to one of the characters. I'll present three versions of this scenerio, and possible responses you might have.


1. The situation in the story is something you yourself have never experienced before (for example, the character's beloved dog dies, but you've never had a pet). The text doesn't explicitly tell you what he's experiencing inside.


  • A. You automatically have a pretty good understanding of what he might be experiencing, without having to stop and think about it much

  • B. You can probably put yourself in his shoes and understand what he might be experiencing, but only if you consciously try to

  • C. You are unable to put yourself in his shoes, and have no idea what he might be experiencing

  • D. Other


2. Now let's say that while you've never experienced this situation before, the text does describe his internal experience ("He was heartbroken. Every day he looked at the mat where his dog used to sleep, and felt like an important part of his life was missing forever"). A., B., C., or D.?


3. Now let's say the text doesn't describe his internal experience, but it's something you have experienced before (for example, your cat died when you were a kid). A., B., C., or D.?


Let me know if this doesn't make sense, or if I'm missing any other important factors.
Click to expand...
To me this is a survey!
 
I have been reading fiction since I was old enough to read, and have always enjoyed it. The first books I remember reading, besides the dictionary, were fantasies or fairy tales. 'The Water Babies' and the 'OZ' books for example.

Later on I developed more sophisticated tastes.

So I guess I have developed an above average level of identification and enjoyment of fiction in general. I rather enjoy writing collective stories with others on some roleplaying sites I have visited in the past.

I may not actually share the feelings I write about, but that does not mean I cannot project myself into a characters emotional landscape. The same goes for reading and I quite enjoy fiction, the more dense and complex it is the better.

So, I can relate, even when I don't experience the same emotional state as a character while reading the story. Fiction provides its own thrills, spills, heartbreak, and situations that sometimes exist beyond everyone's experience. This is true for all who enjoy reading.

Just as an aside, because it is a form of fiction because of the need for subtitles, I get very teary-eyed at Chinese and Korean TV shows. Maybe that disqualifies me from commenting here.

I think too much is made about how autistics don't relate to the 'real' world. We have an emotional landscape like everyone else. Some of us tend to isolate ourselves early in life and sink into a dark place. I managed to avoid that, mostly, and I did it through reading.

Being able to experience someone else's life when yours is so bland and boring, through fiction, is what kept me alive and thriving all these years.

I am on the spectrum, albeit at the very high end, so I do not know how useful this is, but I have always enjoyed the ability to put myself in someone else's shoes, as they say, and have a very large library of hardcover books to prove it.
 
I guess I would answer:
1. B
2. A
3. A

That's a good question but a difficult one. It's hard to think of an experience that I can't relate to on some instinctual or human level. Perhaps there would have been a "C" or two when I was younger and had fewer experiences of my own.

The one example that comes to mind for me is parents divorcing. My parents were never married and my father died when I was young. On an emotional level, it's hard for me to relate to the pain divorce causes children. "Your parents are both still alive and love you so what does the end of their romantic relationship have to do with you?" But on an intellectual level, I can understand the trauma a divorce might cause children and how it might disrupt their worldview and feeling of security.

If I were to read a story in which the character's parent's divorced young but the emotional impact was not described, I'm not sure whether I would assume this negatively impacted the character. I guess I would. However, I might also just assume that the character was ambivalent or neutral about the divorce if no emotional impact was explicitly stated.

That said, I have little problem reading fiction. I may not have some of the stereotypical autism traits but I read a lot as a child. It was my escape.
 
Richelle-H said:
I have been reading fiction since I was old enough to read, and have always enjoyed it. The first books I remember reading, besides the dictionary, were fantasies or fairy tales. 'The Water Babies' and the 'OZ' books for example.

Later on I developed more sophisticated tastes.

So I guess I have developed an above average level of identification and enjoyment of fiction in general. I rather enjoy writing collective stories with others on some roleplaying sites I have visited in the past.

I may not actually share the feelings I write about, but that does not mean I cannot project myself into a characters emotional landscape. The same goes for reading and I quite enjoy fiction, the more dense and complex it is the better.

So, I can relate, even when I don't experience the same emotional state as a character while reading the story. Fiction provides its own thrills, spills, heartbreak, and situations that sometimes exist beyond everyone's experience. This is true for all who enjoy reading.

Just as an aside, because it is a form of fiction because of the need for subtitles, I get very teary-eyed at Chinese and Korean TV shows. Maybe that disqualifies me from commenting here.

I think too much is made about how autistics don't relate to the 'real' world. We have an emotional landscape like everyone else. Some of us tend to isolate ourselves early in life and sink into a dark place. I managed to avoid that, mostly, and I did it through reading.

Being able to experience someone else's life when yours is so bland and boring, through fiction, is what kept me alive and thriving all these years.

I am on the spectrum, albeit at the very high end, so I do not know how useful this is, but I have always enjoyed the ability to put myself in someone else's shoes, as they say, and have a very large library of hardcover books to prove it.
Click to expand...
MY early reading let me explore. I remember one year going through everything about Spelunking (Cave exploration) in my town's library. I devoured the Nat Geos. And, I thought that things like ocean exploration and diving were for brave experts like Jacques-Yves Cousteau. Then, well into mid-life I learned to dive. Who knew that reading about exploration would inflame my imagination such that I overcame a lot of fears to learn how to explore.
 
If it weren't for fiction, my head would have exploded. The protagonist is usually someone who overcomes terrible hurdles to become someone who mattered. A whole raft of sci-fi and fantasy kept me afloat when actual life was dismal. You bet I put myself in the protag's place and projected my emotions onto them.
 
When I read a story by a really good writer "I" ceases to exist. I become the protagonist and experience their emotions or thoughts as the writer intended. Emotions don't always drive the characters of novels. Very often my favorite charcters are motivated by makeing the most rational desicion to further their goals in spite of whatever emotions they might experience.
Honestly, I've never stopped to consider if I am identifying directly with a charcter or not. Reading for me is more like a movie. I get so deeply into what I am reading I notice nothing else.
 
For me it depends on the specific scenario, some would seem obvious to me and others would be completely baffling. For example, even if I had not experienced loss myself, I might have some idea of what grief is, and I have enough of a connection even with animals that are not my pets that I’m dumbfounded by the idea that it might be any less painful for anyone to lose a pet than to lose a human family member, so would extrapolate that both would cause the same intensity of emotions even if the person’s feelings about the dog beforehand were not explained (if it was the first thing that happened in the story or something). But for romantic love, I neither have experienced nor have any real understanding of it, so if I had to guess what someone felt the first time they saw a romantic interest, I would only determine that it was a strong positive emotion. I would need any further details explained and could only partially empathize. If thorough details were given but the character was feeling the opposite of what I would feel about the situation, I cannot achieve empathy. For example, if someone was not bothered by an animal’s death because “it’s just a (insert animal type),” I would have some understanding if it was mentioned that the person had grown up on a farm and regularly saw animals slaughtered from a young age, but even if every detail of their thoughts and feelings was described, I would not be able to empathize.

For the record, I have always loved reading fiction whether I can empathize with any character or not, though I focus less on the characters and more on other elements. I’m easily bored by books like drama and romance, where there isn’t a lot else to the story.
 
Au Naturel said:
If it weren't for fiction, my head would have exploded. The protagonist is usually someone who overcomes terrible hurdles to become someone who mattered. A whole raft of sci-fi and fantasy kept me afloat when actual life was dismal. You bet I put myself in the protag's place and projected my emotions onto them.
Click to expand...
Yep. Everything from the Foundation series to The Lord of the Rings, to Childhood's End among many, provided an outlet of imagining that was better than my soul rotting reality.
 
Nummulite said:
The text doesn't explicitly tell you what he's experiencing inside.
Click to expand...

I work with little kids on just these skills. Kids learn a great deal about language through reading. Even if they are unsympathetic with a character, they learn to assess character traits and plot twists that provide skills for RL.
 
Lord of the Rings. I read that.

Agree with others that the more skilled the author, the more l can relate and understand what to feel. Right now l love watching The Good Wife and The Sopranos because l like the range of emotions l feel, then l remind myself, thank god my life is so much simpler.

So l feel the highs and the lows. I have a hard time with violence or abuse showing animals or kids. It's very hard for me. I tend to disassociate pretty fast.

If reading, l try to figure out it, but l am more plot driven and l read fiction like what is going to happen next compared to a mini series where l concentrate on emotions. So l am visual first, then actual written word is not quite attention grabbing. But the good authors grab you and pull you in.
 
Taking the OP as a survey,
my answers would be B - A - A.
If I could pretend I've never had a pet that I loved and felt the hurt from it's death.
I have had many pets, but only one, a cat that lived 16 yrs. even comes close to
feeling such a strong loss it would be similar to a family member I loved.

So, in fictional settings such as the question asked, it really depends on what the fictional
person, animal or creation is as to whether I can relate.
A movie called War Horse brought tears. I related to what the animal was feeling physically
and emotionally and the drive it had to make it back to the one it loved.
All feelings I can understand.

Movies about romance, sports and even horror, I haven't had feelings to relate with.
I've never known much in the romance department and I don't like sports. I do like horror and some
fantasy and Sci-Fi. Not for the what the characters are feeling, but, for the plot of the story.
So it depends on what the fiction is revolving around.
 
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