Highly functioning autism or just a strange behavior in my 10 year old?...

[Neonatal RRT]

Thank you so much!! Stupid question: why is masking bad? Isn't it learning how to adapt?..Isnt' it the same as my mom making me say "thank you" after somebody gave me candy, even if I didn't feel like it?...If it is harmful, what other solution can there possibly be?...I apologize if I am off, not sure how to ask this right....I just genuinely try to understand how otherwise people would adapt if not "mask"?..what would other solution be?

Context: Teaching your children proper social graces, good manners, politeness, and other cultural aspects are a good thing. Teaching your children the importance of self-discipline, good work ethic, empathy, responsibility, accountability, perspective taking, etc. is also a good thing. You are right, sometimes doing and saying things that are in conflict with your feelings is a reality.

Masking, although related, is a term autistics use to describe this "observe and mimic" behavior. We all do it to some extent, but autistics are not neurotypical. We think and do things differently because of how our brains are wired up, quite literally. Another way to think of it, we often have "imposter complex" or feelings that we are an "observing alien". We look like human beings, no different from anyone else, but we know at our core, we are not like others. So it creates a lot of physiologic, emotional, and psychological stress for us to always be "acting", no different than any "Oscar-winning" actor who immerses him/herself into a character role. You can lose who you really are to the point of compromising your mental health.

So, there is often an effort now amongst many autistics to reject masking and just be themselves, and if others don't like it, then that's on them. Masking is a double-edged sword. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[kriss72]

Thank you so much!! Stupid question: why is masking bad? Isn't it learning how to adapt?..Isnt' it the same as my mom making me say "thank you" after somebody gave me candy, even if I didn't feel like it?...If it is harmful, what other solution can there possibly be?...I apologize if I am off, not sure how to ask this right....I just genuinely try to understand how otherwise people would adapt if not "mask"?..what would other solution be?

Masking is bad because it can have a very high cost (mentally) to mask - I don't know what would be the best example, but imagine the food you dislike the most, masking is like being forced to eat that with a smile every day. - the solution is to change the food. It isn't just like learning to say "thank you"

Like I don't like to look at people when I talk with them, I learned to do it - now I don't and it is much, much more easy to pay attention to what they say. But there is what seems like a never ending list of rules to follow, for NT's it comes natural, for some autistic people, it doesn't.

Not saying your daughter is anything like that, I'm just talking from my own experience.

 

[newhere]

For me this is a question of extent. Everyone learns how to get along ,You ask "how are you?" without caring about the answer. You nod with interest when someone relates a story about their last hiking holiday. That's the normal to-and-fro of maintaining social bonds. For me the difference with autism is that you have no social bond as a result. It isn't about social hygiene to maintain relationships you value, it's about putting up a charade that prevents people from identifying you as someone who has no social connection. You are the used car salesman of social interaction in that it's almost manipulative, but it doesn't come from a desire for personal gain. It comes from a desire not to be exposed as completely unable to instinctively navigate social interaction.

Thank you very much! I don't think I could describe anything as accurate and bring clarity on a difficult subject. This is very helpful!

 

[MNAus]

Thank you very much! I don't think I could describe anything as accurate and bring clarity on a difficult subject. This is very helpful!

No problem. But, as I said, autism is a broad spectrum; others may not have the same experience. Regardless, glad my experience helped.

 

[UFO]

now you should smile, now you should look at their faces, now you should say this

It goes even further than that, to more detail: To smile, remember lift also your eye corners, not only mouth corner. Do not overdo it. While showing teeth can add extra flavor, showing too much teeth is creepy. And so on...

NTs have same problem with fake smiles, but at least they tend to pull genuine smile at correct situations.

 

[Misty Avich]

I think everyone masks to an extent. It's hard not to mask. Often I do it naturally and it doesn't take up much energy.

 

[newhere]

I wasn't diagnosed until I was 25, and pursued it myself. My cousin is very surely autistic, although not officially diagnosed, as far as I know.
I think I would have benefitted from getting diagnosed at around the age your daughter is. But probably less because of the diagnosis itself, but because it would have meant that my parents would have been more attentive and accepting to my needs, discomforts and traits, instead of just trying to "raise them out of me". I secretly hoped at several stages in higher school that a teacher would ask me what was wrong and tell my parents, because I was struggling but lacked the ability to tell an adult straight-out.

So, I think that right now your attitude and behavior, as well as the school's, is more important than an official diagnosis. As @Misty Avich said, a diagnosis could even be harmful for your daughter (big "could"). You seem to be a considerate and attentive parent and she seems to be developing into a healthy direction. Maybe rather than getting your daughter assessed, it could be more beneficial to keep educating yourself about neurodiversity and support your daughter as best as you can, keeping in mind that she might be on the spectrum. If, at some point, you get the impression that she might start suffering from anxiety, depression, being taken advantage of, whatever, you could reevaluate.
As your daughter gets older, you could bring up the topic of neurodiversity, like you suspecting ADHD running in your family, so that she as a teenager and young adult maybe gets some input to do some research by herself, if she wants to. She might tell you about suspecting it for herself, then.

Up to a certain point, masking is certainly helpful and a practical tool, if used consciously. It helps to blend in and to navigate the world as a neurodiverse person. But, and that's important, masking is very, very exhausting. If you spend all day masking, you're done in the evening, have meltdowns, or internalize and get depression and/or anxiety (not meaning to generalize, though, obviously there are exceptions). Also, if HFA autistic people grow up masking unconsciously, a lot of them lose their sense of who they really are. If you spent your whole adolescence masking, you might burn out when you reach university or your first job, suddenly you can't deal anymore and you don't know why. And you don't have any alternative coping strategies because you never learned them.
I think masking is a very useful skill, as long as you can use it consciously, know yourself and know alternatice strategies, and as long as "your whole life doesn't depend on it".
Edit: Also, you could compare it a bit with the "saying thank you when you don't really mean it because it's polite", but the difference is that for NT children, that's, like, one moment. Autistic masking is doing stuff like that constantly, and also figuring it out by yourself, not having your mom standing next to you who tells you every step of the way "now you should smile, now you should look at their faces, now you should say this", etc. It's just very, very exhausting, and often feels very uncomfortable, like giving a kiss to your aunt when you don't want to, but all the time, on a daily basis.

Thank you! I really try to work around her personality..and not to push. For instance, none of my kids are tactile (is there an expression like that in english?..sorry, english is my second language). They won't hug me or physically show affection much, you know? Since both of them are like that, I didnt know any different, and was very surprised seeing my friend's son clinging to her> But I was thiking it is because of my girl's "can do" personality, both girls were very independent always. And I never forced it..even though I feel sad sometimes..like..there is not much affection towards me it seems.

I did, however, ask her to smile on the pictures, or hug relatives back when saying "hi", not thinking twice about it. Only now I see where it could be coming from...

 

[Neri]

I burnt out badly, in my late thirties, from not knowing I was on the spectrum, and too much masking. I've been somewhat socially reclusive for the last 10 years or so. It is helping my youngest son, enormously, to have a mother who is so aware, so empathetic and so educated about Autism, ADHD, AuDHD and twice exceptionality, because my youngest son is very bright, socially clue-y (more because he got obsessed with psychology than any natural inclination) messy, very creative and autistic and ADHD-y (it's being claimed that 50 -70% of autistic people also have comorbid ADHD). He's not yet formally diagnosed, although the process has been started, and he's 18.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Thank you! I really try to work around her personality..and not to push. For instance, none of my kids are tactile (is there an expression like that in english?..sorry, english is my second language). They won't hug me or physically show affection much, you know? Since both of them are like that, I didnt know any different, and was very surprised seeing my friend's son clinging to her> But I was thiking it is because of my girl's "can do" personality, both girls were very independent always. And I never forced it..even though I feel sad sometimes..like..there is not much affection towards me it seems.

I did, however, ask her to smile on the pictures, or hug relatives back when saying "hi", not thinking twice about it. Only now I see where it could be coming from...

Yeah, those are very usual things. I also got pressured often into giving hugs and kisses against my comfort ("southern" family), and my dad always equaled refusing to give kisses and hugs as "not loving him", so I get it. And don't get me started on posing and smiling for pictures. I perfected this and get always told by people how perfect my photo smile is - however, I only have this one smile which I always use on photos, and whenever the photo is not chosen by me (like a selfie), I feel very uncomfortable.
Don't beat yourself up about this, though, it's such a common thing and a lot of kids don't find it uncomfortable, I'd say it's almost impossible to anticipate, unless you as a parent feel uncomfortable with these things, too. But maybe you could think it over now and keep teaching your daughter to listen to her own feelings and comfort about physical contact.

Also, them not hugging you really doesn't have to correspond to how much they love you. Really. I know it's hard not to project, if hugging is your own love language, but it's really not for other people, and it doesn't mean any less love.

 

[AuAL]

Thank you so much!! Stupid question: why is masking bad? Isn't it learning how to adapt?..Isnt' it the same as my mom making me say "thank you" after somebody gave me candy, even if I didn't feel like it?...If it is harmful, what other solution can there possibly be?...I apologize if I am off, not sure how to ask this right....I just genuinely try to understand how otherwise people would adapt if not "mask"?..what would other solution be?

“Learning how to adapt“ is a reasonable strategy for neurotypical people. For neurodivergent people, we have no idea of the appropriate responses in almost all social interactions. So we have to find out, by arduous and often damaging trial-and-error testing, what the acceptable response, behaviour, facial expression, stance or action is, for all situations. The constant search for approval and external validation for trial responses, and all actions and interactions, can lead to quite warped psychological developments. Then you have to assess every situation you are in and work out what sort of situation it is, and what “masking behaviour” is appropriate (if it is in your “library”) and adopt it. Before the NT people notice. For every situation in your professional, social, personal and intimate life. For a lifetime.You may be able to imagine the mental effort and emotional stress this causes. And at the end of it, you may, or may not, remember who you really are. (Sorry, the development of my understanding of my autism came after years of psychological therapy. The demands of my professional career mean I test out with very high levels of masking which, until I became aware of my autism, was almost completely unconscious.)

 

[Hypnalis]

being assesed/diagnosed, did it help you? If so, how? Or do you think it would have been better now knowing?
Were there any practical exercise/ technics that actually helped?

I don't think "knowing" is necessarily helpful.
What kid wants to be told they're different and that can't be changed? ... and then left alone to figure out for themselves what that actually means?
You can't easily mediate for this, because you'll never truly understand that difference.

But some degree of information would probably help. What? When? By whom? Hard questions.

IMO there are certainly ways to help a young, intelligent Aspie. Simple things in principle, but not necessarily in practice.

BTW: "Masking" isn't what you think it is. But I've never liked the implied definitions used here either (with a very few exceptions).

 

[330]

Thank you so much!! Stupid question: why is masking bad? Isn't it learning how to adapt?..Isnt' it the same as my mom making me say "thank you" after somebody gave me candy, even if I didn't feel like it?...If it is harmful, what other solution can there possibly be?...I apologize if I am off, not sure how to ask this right....I just genuinely try to understand how otherwise people would adapt if not "mask"?..what would other solution be?

You are very welcome ! Definitely no stupid questions here , this is a place for learning , and I am sure you will read some of our stories are very similar and some very different from each other, but also very unique to us personally.

What you described are social etiquette and social constructs , which are good to learn . Even though lots of them seem very odd in my opinion.

There are very many interpretation and concepts of masking, from my understanding and experience personally it is as if we mimic other people and personalities ,body language facial expressions etc , but not really understanding all of intricacies of all the social and verbal cues within the context of the expressions. We can seem fairly normal so we can be excepted within a social group.
Problem with this is it is extremely draining and people may be liking us for who we are pretending to be. This could be very harmful within complex relationships of family and partners. Even though I am male , females can be masters at masking and very hard to diagnose due to this .
This can cause mental break breakdowns, addictions , personality problems etc etc especially when there could be immense life pressures.

Personally for me I wish I did know when I was a child, It would have helped me immensely.

I got diagnosed a bit later in life . Glad I did and it sent me on a learning journey about myself and has helped me immensely with my everyday functioning.

If she is on the spectrum and you get the diagnosis ,from my perspective it could be very helpful for her personally and your family .

 

[newhere]

I wasn't diagnosed until I was 25, and pursued it myself. My cousin is very surely autistic, although not officially diagnosed, as far as I know.
I think I would have benefitted from getting diagnosed at around the age your daughter is. But probably less because of the diagnosis itself, but because it would have meant that my parents would have been more attentive and accepting to my needs, discomforts and traits, instead of just trying to "raise them out of me". I secretly hoped at several stages in higher school that a teacher would ask me what was wrong and tell my parents, because I was struggling but lacked the ability to tell an adult straight-out.

So, I think that right now your attitude and behavior, as well as the school's, is more important than an official diagnosis. As @Misty Avich said, a diagnosis could even be harmful for your daughter (big "could"). You seem to be a considerate and attentive parent and she seems to be developing into a healthy direction. Maybe rather than getting your daughter assessed, it could be more beneficial to keep educating yourself about neurodiversity and support your daughter as best as you can, keeping in mind that she might be on the spectrum. If, at some point, you get the impression that she might start suffering from anxiety, depression, being taken advantage of, whatever, you could reevaluate.
As your daughter gets older, you could bring up the topic of neurodiversity, like you suspecting ADHD running in your family, so that she as a teenager and young adult maybe gets some input to do some research by herself, if she wants to. She might tell you about suspecting it for herself, then.

Up to a certain point, masking is certainly helpful and a practical tool, if used consciously. It helps to blend in and to navigate the world as a neurodiverse person. But, and that's important, masking is very, very exhausting. If you spend all day masking, you're done in the evening, have meltdowns, or internalize and get depression and/or anxiety (not meaning to generalize, though, obviously there are exceptions). Also, if HFA autistic people grow up masking unconsciously, a lot of them lose their sense of who they really are. If you spent your whole adolescence masking, you might burn out when you reach university or your first job, suddenly you can't deal anymore and you don't know why. And you don't have any alternative coping strategies because you never learned them.
I think masking is a very useful skill, as long as you can use it consciously, know yourself and know alternatice strategies, and as long as "your whole life doesn't depend on it".
Edit: Also, you could compare it a bit with the "saying thank you when you don't really mean it because it's polite", but the difference is that for NT children, that's, like, one moment. Autistic masking is doing stuff like that constantly, and also figuring it out by yourself, not having your mom standing next to you who tells you every step of the way "now you should smile, now you should look at their faces, now you should say this", etc. It's just very, very exhausting, and often feels very uncomfortable, like giving a kiss to your aunt when you don't want to, but all the time, on a daily basis.

Yeah, those are very usual things. I also got pressured often into giving hugs and kisses against my comfort ("southern" family), and my dad always equaled refusing to give kisses and hugs as "not loving him", so I get it. And don't get me started on posing and smiling for pictures. I perfected this and get always told by people how perfect my photo smile is - however, I only have this one smile which I always use on photos, and whenever the photo is not chosen by me (like a selfie), I feel very uncomfortable.
Don't beat yourself up about this, though, it's such a common thing and a lot of kids don't find it uncomfortable, I'd say it's almost impossible to anticipate, unless you as a parent feel uncomfortable with these things, too. But maybe you could think it over now and keep teaching your daughter to listen to her own feelings and comfort about physical contact.

Also, them not hugging you really doesn't have to correspond to how much they love you. Really. I know it's hard not to project, if hugging is your own love language, but it's really not for other people, and it doesn't mean any less love.

Wow...I am really trying to process all of this...I appreciate you and everyone being so nice and open. I knew something was off..but reading all these comments makes my hair stand up ..I start understanding that probably this is it...

I never smooch my girls, you know? I will briefly hug them when it is "the right moment", rarely. But now I am worried..how does it work with relationships? Can they be comfortable with a partner later? Is it any different with a mate? Will they struggle and mask that too?..I mean physical part of it? that would be just heartbreaking...

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It goes even further than that, to more detail: To smile, remember lift also your eye corners, not only mouth corner. Do not overdo it. While showing teeth can add extra flavor, showing too much teeth is creepy. And so on...

NTs have same problem with fake smiles, but at least they tend to pull genuine smile at correct situations.

I'm not sure about that. I see that description for masking everywhere, too, but it really wasn't the case for me. Maybe I picked it up too subconsciously to experience it that way. For me, I feel like I always did know how to form "right" facial expressions and body language, but I just didn't feel comfortable for it. Masking for me meant (and means) to not do the things I would naturally do, but instead do things I know are expected of me. For example, looking into people's faces and smile while they talk, making little interested noises while they tell a story when I would much rather listen and could concentrate better with a neutral face without looking at them, hug someone when I know it's appropriate (for example, because a friend is crying) although it feels somewhat unnatural and I never know when to stop the hug.
But that's just me.

 

[330]

This is how it think my face looks when I mask

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Wow...I am really trying to process all of this...I appreciate you and everyone being so nice and open. I knew something was off..but reading all these comments makes my hair stand up ..I start understanding that probably this is it...

I never smooch my girls, you know? I will briefly hug them when it is "the right moment", rarely. But now I am worried..how does it work with relationships? Can they be comfortable with a partner later? Is it any different with a mate? Will they struggle and mask that too?..I mean physical part of it? that would be just heartbreaking...

I really don't think you need to worry too much at this point. Your daughter seems to be happy and healthy, and everyone experiences little things in their upbringing that probably could be better, but you really seem to be very considerate of your daughter and are trying to get a better understanding, which is a lot more than some of us could say about their relatives. Also, keep in mind that this is all just assuming. We don't know how your daughter truly experiences it.

About relationships: It's very different for all of us. I have an autistic friend who really struggles with this because she finds every physical contact uncomfortable and very easily overwhelming, so intimacy is indeed an issue between her and her partner. For my partner and me, we are both autistic and aren't really comfortable with hugging and stuff with other people, but are very cuddly and touchy with each other. We both don't really like tongue-kissing (could never get the hang of it), but apart from that, I'd say things work out fine. When one of us feels overwhelmed because of something, we both don't want to be touched, but are honest about it and are both careful to not overstep the other one's boundaries. However it turns out, your daughter will figure things out for herself. The most important thing you can do is teach her to listen to her own wants and needs, to not force herself to do anything she doesn't want, and be open and non-judgmental when she tells you stuff, even if you might experience them differently.

 

[marc_101]

@newhere You got great answers already. It seems worth it to discuss it with a specialist and keep an eye on her development, but the main issue to me is distress. Is she having distress about her relationships? Is she anxious? Is she having problems in school (grades)? Does she feel lonely? Does she feel bad because she can't connect with others? Is she bullied at school? From what you wrote, it seems that most of the answers are no, so that would be a reason to not seek something medically "wrong" with her.

The other part is that autistic people don't lack empathy (knowing what others feel or feeling what others feel). As you can tell from all the answers here, there is plenty of empathy. The issue is often not expressing empathy in the way most people do.

To this day, I hate pictures of me being taken. Since I was a little kid. I hated pictures. I have no clue why. I also daydream to a professional degree. I'm often distracted because I'm thinking. When I was a kid, my parents would find me sitting as if I were dead, but I was thinking. I used to have an imaginary alternative world. I never touched or hugged my mother, but I'm (mostly) ok hugging a girlfriend and being intimate. I had and have problems connecting with people, but things are mostly fine. Thankfully I grew up at a time and a country in which kids were not labeled, so I was left alone. I'm a professor now so for all practical purposes my life is fine.

I should add: I had a lot of problems connecting in school/outside my comfortable bubble. But understanding people was and is a special interest. I eventually became good at understanding how to be charming, etc. But it takes energy and doesn't come naturally. If you know me well, you know I wear elaborate masks.

You're doing the right things. Loving and worrying about your daughter.

 

[MNAus]

I'm not sure about that. I see that description for masking everywhere, too, but it really wasn't the case for me. Maybe I picked it up too subconsciously to experience it that way. For me, I feel like I always did know how to form "right" facial expressions and body language, but I just didn't feel comfortable for it. Masking for me meant (and means) to not do the things I would naturally do, but instead do things I know are expected of me. For example, looking into people's faces and smile while they talk, making little interested noises while they tell a story when I would much rather listen and could concentrate better with a neutral face without looking at them, hug someone when I know it's appropriate (for example, because a friend is crying) although it feels somewhat unnatural and I never know when to stop the hug.
But that's just me.

For me it's pretty simple. I got good at masking but behind the scenes it was a looped tape of "let me go. I want to go. Am I doing this right? Probably not, I'm so sorry. I want to go"

 

[Neri]

Masking, to me, is trying to fit in and be like other people. To go through all the motions, despite feeling like a zombie, on the inside, and trying SO HARD to not stick out and be targeted, as different, despite feeling like I am pretending to be a human, when, I really didn't feel it.I had to learn how to be social via performance art, myself, and I did have the mantra "fake it 'til you make it" as a teen into adulthood. I felt utterly unacceptable, for myself, so performing gave me a way to learn how to "human".

 

[newhere]

I really don't think you need to worry too much at this point. Your daughter seems to be happy and healthy, and everyone experiences little things in their upbringing that probably could be better, but you really seem to be very considerate of your daughter and are trying to get a better understanding, which is a lot more than some of us could say about their relatives. Also, keep in mind that this is all just assuming. We don't know how your daughter truly experiences it.

About relationships: It's very different for all of us. I have an autistic friend who really struggles with this because she finds every physical contact uncomfortable and very easily overwhelming, so intimacy is indeed an issue between her and her partner. For my partner and me, we are both autistic and aren't really comfortable with hugging and stuff with other people, but are very cuddly and touchy with each other. We both don't really like tongue-kissing (could never get the hang of it), but apart from that, I'd say things work out fine. When one of us feels overwhelmed because of something, we both don't want to be touched, but are honest about it and are both careful to not overstep the other one's boundaries. However it turns out, your daughter will figure things out for herself. The most important thing you can do is teach her to listen to her own wants and needs, to not force herself to do anything she doesn't want, and be open and non-judgmental when she tells you stuff, even if you might experience them differently.

Thank you very much! I pretty much just to try to constantly access: do they look happy, content, open? If so, I am happy and let things be. At least now I don't feel so bad about them not hugging me much, as it was feeling like a "one-way-street" sometimes, you know? .. At least now I won't take it personally. My girls are my number one priority. Everything else in life comes next.

The only issue now is the middle school teacher..she sends us letters like, once every 2 weeks. With some sort of complaints "not paying attention" "not looking" "doodling", but our grades are great, and my daughter doesn't bother anyone... I understand it is hard with 25 other kids in class, but what can I do?..