Empathy and Autism

[Lilacleia16]

I was told that autistic people like myself have no capacity for empathy. I wonder what other autistics think? Is this true about us? If so, why? And what are examples?

 

[Neri]

I'm too tired today, to write out a post to rebutt the claim, so I'm posting up some vids to answer, instead

 

[Neri]

I was told that autistic people like myself have no capacity for empathy. I wonder what other autistics think? Is this true about us? If so, why? And what are examples?

And this one.

 

[Lilacleia16]

I'm too tired today, to write out a post to rebutt the claim, so I'm posting up some vids to answer, instead

This was very helpful because my friend cried the other day because she was moving across town and I gave her space and didn’t hug her but when I saw people hugging her and approaching her I approached her afterwards and asked if she could tell me how I should respond to her because I do care that she is sad but I didn’t know how to show it to her. She said I did fine but generally I do leave people to cry alone and without touch because it is what I would want.

 

[marc_101]

Oyyy....

Yes, the empathy stuff is something that annoys me. To the best of my knowledge, the issue originates on dividing empathy into its components: cognitive and emotional empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to understand what others are thinking or know; emotional empathy is the ability to feel what others feel. One theory of autism (theory of mind) says that autistic people have problems understanding other minds (cognitive empathy). However, they don't argue that autistic people do not care about others (emotional empathy). I just finished reading Baron-Cohen's book (The Pattern Seekers), one of the theory proponents so it's fresh on my mind. Somehow, the issue then became "autistic people don't care about others," which is not correct even for the proponents of the theory. In part, too, is because early descriptions of autism used to refer to autistic "psychopathy" and "schizophrenia" because the thought was that a defining trait of austism was a detachment from the world (but also because those terms meant something different around 1940).

The theory of mind has been criticized a lot. (There are other theories like monotropism that explain autism better, but they are just theories that are hard to test.) As you can tell from this forum, people here care greatly about others.

In a rebuttal of the theory, many mention the double empathy issue. It's not that autistic people do not understand others, it's that they don't react like most people, so it's also NTs that have problems with cogntive empathy regarding autistic people. In my experience, this is much closer to reality. I know sometimes it seems like I don't care about others (my brother is much worse). But it's because I don't respond in the "expected" way. Sometimes I feel too much and I shutdown. To others, it looks like I don't care about them. "I am hard to read" or "insensitive."

Your experience with your friend is the perfect example. One suggestion: show her these posts Ask your friend to understand you better too.

Late edit: See Rodafina's post with other discussions. The theory of mind people have a good point. I was very late in understanding people so their theory on cognitive empathy was not that off then. I'm still learning. The capacity to learn may vary by people too. Autism is so broad...

 

[Angular Chap]

From personal experience, I don't think it's true at all. There is no shortage of empathy on here, I see it every day. Among good friends who have been here for years and also towards new members, internet strangers, and everything in between.

In some cases, I think it may even be the exact opposite. A common autistic trait is heightened sensitivity, be it to light or sound, or emotional sensitivity. Heightened emotional sensitivity can translate to heightened empathy for others.

I think part of the problem is how we show empathy, especially face to face, leads to people believing we have no capacity for empathy at all. We don't always know how to react, or if we should react at all. Or we may just accidentally say or do the wrong thing entirely.

Or how we show empathy doesn't always register with people because we show it in ways they are not used to, ways they have never seen before, or ways they can't detect.

Also when we receive empathy from others, we don't always know how to react or we don't show a reaction in a way other people are used to when they receive empathy themselves.

 

[Xinyta]

Empathy is a strange thing for us with ASD. It's not that we do not have it. It's that we don't express it in the same ways NTs do, a large amount of the time.

We NDs also tend to process emotions in a different way than NTs do. And alot of the time, we can come off as cold and robotic for not reacting the way NTs expect to certain situations. Which is why there are people who think we are emotionless. Even thought it's obviously not as simple as that.

Then add Alexithyma into the mix. That can make it worse for socail interaction with NTs and the general world.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

My mother was a very empathic person< i inherited this from her but do not carry it on my sleeve the way she did. Went back to work after she passed, my work mates thought THIS would affect me as grieving was too short, but to this day I think of her my dad and brother. and friends I have lost.

 

[Judge]

I was told that autistic people like myself have no capacity for empathy. I wonder what other autistics think? Is this true about us? If so, why? And what are examples?

IMO it's an NT myth.

When the reality isn't that we actually lack empathy, but rather that we lack a way to project it in a manner that NTs are accustomed to observing or understanding.

We just don't necessarily "wear our hearts on our sleeves", as perhaps some people want- or expect.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

If I am in an environment which I feel is threatening - new people, new places, don't know the "rules" - I do maintain a facial mask that doesn't show much. That could change as I learn more about the situation.

But generally speaking, in environments familiar to me, I am perceived as very empathic and people, even relative strangers, seek me out to talk to me. I know how to "actively" listen and commiserate. It has always struck me that rarely is anyone "there" when I need to talk. (Not this community. This is back when I was still in IRL communities and struggling.)

 

[Neonatal RRT]

There are several types of empathy. When speaking of the autism condition, one must be specific. In other words, do autistics have empathy, of course, but there may be cases where the individual may be lacking in a specific type of empathy (not all). X Explanations Empathy

 

[Tom]

In a word 'False'. But it has been discussed many times here. A search will probably turn up 10s of millions of threads on it.

 

[thejuice]

I think some.autistic people might have a deficit in understanding other people's motives.

Some autistics are hyper sensitive to others feelings/ energy.

 

[marc_101]

I think some.autistic people might have a deficit in understanding other people's motives.

Yep. A theory of mind proponent would say that that proves their theory, and they do have a point that is backed up by plenty of research. BUT, a lot can be learned, so their tests measuring cognitive empathy (like the Empathy Quotient, EQ) tend to also measure social skills that can change over time.

I was very innocent when I was young. I could be deceived very easily. People would make fun of me, and most of the time I couldn't understand why. I didn't know what people wanted or expected from me. I would take their words at face value and literally. But over time I learned more about how people function -- one of my special interests. How what they say is not literally what they mean. I studied the motives of people and self-interest. I also learned from past experiences. So now my "theory of mind" is much better.

 

[Outdated]

So many people get confused by this. Empathy does not mean Sympathy.

Just because I'm sensitive to what you're feeling does not mean that I'm going to pander to it.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

So many people get confused by this. Empathy does not mean Sympathy.

Just because I'm sensitive to what you're feeling does not mean that I'm going to pander to it.

I don’t understand what you mean. Which word implies pandering?

 

[MNAus]

When the reality isn't that we actually lack empathy, but rather that we lack a way to project it in a manner that NTs are accustomed to observing or understanding.

I think that's probably how I understand it too. It's like "he/she doesn't perform the usual cultural norms of our social group at this point. QED he/she feels nothing". Which, of course, is a load of rubbish. That's doubly so when the NT performing the actions doesn't actually empathise, but is just going through the motions of some sort of demonstrative empathy. e.g. the judges on talent shows flapping their hands before their eyes to "stop" the squeezed out tears. In those situations you can be judged as not having empathy despite the NT involved actually having none at all, and knowingly so. For me that kind of settles it that it's actually about adhering to rituals rather than having actual empathy.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I was told that autistic people like myself have no capacity for empathy. I wonder what other autistics think? Is this true about us? If so, why? And what are examples?

Well...
I think some of the people on here are some of the most empathetic I have met.
I am an empath and definitely have adhd.
My cousin Tim has Asperger’s
I have an empath brain that is a mystery and works in many different ways with many different threads.
That is why I am a genuine empath because I live like an empath
Not sure I have ASD yet though but I do have some limitations

 

[Lilacleia16]

Well...
I think some of the people on here are some of the most empathetic I have met.
I am an empath and definitely have adhd.
My cousin Tim has Asperger’s
I have an empath brain that is a mystery and works in many different ways with many different threads.
That is why I am a genuine empath because I live like an empath
Not sure I have ASD yet though but I do have some limitations

My brother has ADHD and he is one of the few people who gets me. I have ASD but he doesn’t mind. I think the two are compatible; ADHD and ASD.

 

[Outdated]

I don’t understand what you mean. Which word implies pandering?

Perhaps I didn't describe what I was trying to say very well. Many times in my life I have been accused of having no empathy. It's not always easy to describe different social situations but this example might help.

One of the people in the streets approached me and asked me for money, I didn't pay them much attention, I just said "No." and kept walking. A little further along the road I stopped at a pedestrian crossing and a woman that had been walking near me said "Don't you think you were a bit rude back there?.

I said "No, I don't think so.". She turned on me and started telling me that I didn't understand what it was like to be homeless and what those poor people have to go through. I was also homeless at the time, if slightly better dressed than most of them. She at least had the good grace to look embarrassed when I told her so.

Living on the streets in Adelaide we were well fed and well catered for, plus given a more than reasonable amount of money considering that we have no bills to pay. We get paid fortnightly, some people will spend all that money in the first few days and then spend the rest of the fortnight scabbing off everyone else.

I understand their situation intimately and I know exactly how they're feeling. I have no sympathy at all for them.