BF disputes EVERYTHING I say

[Hedgehog Instigator]

I'm looking for feedback on communication with my bf.

He disputes much of what I say. It feels like it’s CONSTANT and it wears me down. Like can’t you just say “uh huh” and move on in the convo?

I thought aspies were ultra- logical, but half the time I can’t figure out where he’s coming from. His point of view makes no sense to me.

Is this a dismissiveness or disputing me a common Aspie thing in communication or is this a personality of someone who has to dominate and always be right?

This is because we like to debate. It's not an argument for me, it's an intellectual exercise. He might not even realize you think he's arguing. He could think he's being helpful even.

 

[Ylva]

I don't suppose you have tried to tell him, "we don't have a communication problem".

Allistics often say things like "I'd rather be happy than right" and "you just have to be right, don't you".

Well, yeah, I want to know the truth about things, and I want the person I am connecting with to know it too. Or I want them to want to know the truth about things. I'd be unhappy not knowing.

 

[Echo]

I learn so much from these threads. That might be why i don't read them every day... I need to take breaks to integrate things.

Most people would probably say I mask my autistic traits very well. In fact, some have argued that they don't exist.... but not those people who have lived with me.

Look, if you present a point of view, I consider that an open door to expressing my own view. Not maliciously. Not because I think that I, and only I, have all the answers. But because thoughts are always stewing in my head and if you open the door to discourse on something I've thought about, I'm going to talk about it. Not only that, if I've given any thought at all to the topic and if it, heaven forbid, deals with one of my personal VALUES, I'm going to speak my truth clearly.

At this point I'm usually accused of thinking I'm always right.
At this point my daughter or my ex would roll their eyes and start speaking defensively. (Which makes me nuts, I never quite know when they're going to bring all that negative emotion into the mix and I don't always remain calm in the face of that.)

What started as something that, to me, was no more emotionally-charged than a statement like "cookies are sweet," can end in tears and someone melting down.

I hate this whole thing. It's that one cowpie on the road that I step in, again and again, despite decades of navel-gazing.

For the record, when I make those definitive statements I never do so with malice, an intent to control, a need to be right, OR a lack of disrespect.

Cookies are sweet, in my experience. By saying so I don't rule out the possibility of the existence of bitter cookies....

 

[Bella Pines]

Firstly, yes, this sounds very aspie. Can you give specific examples from conversations?

Is this a dismissiveness or disputing me a common Aspie thing in communication or is this a personality of someone who has to dominate and always be right?

Here is irony for you !! I dispute what you are saying !!

Basically, people have accused me of this. Together with cutting them off, dismissing what they have to say and an annoying hand gesture, whereby I wave people away when I perceive them to be incorrect.

But I neither do it to dominate, nor to always be right. I do it because I am genuinely not following their line of logic. I had an argument at work a while back on the isis situation, and disagreed with the western strategy saying that we should issue an apology and leave the middle east alone. The person I was arguing with was horrified, "how can you condone such horrors" they cried, "they must be stopped!". They were incensed, furious, accused me of being a psychopath. (I did correct them to high functioning sociopath but I don't think they understood...). But anyway, I don't look at the immediate situation. I look at the bigger picture and work through the facts. Decades ago we gave rise to isis as a result of invading iraq for their oil fields. Ergo, it's our own fault that we're in this mess. The person I was arguing with was drawing an emotional conclusion based on a limited set of facts, conveniently ignoring the bigger picture, ergo inaccurate.

I dismissed them with a patronizing hand wave. Not to dominate, not to always be right, but simply because our thought processes are not aligned. Furthermore, if I were to simply agree with an "uh-huh", I perceive that I am not doing them any favors and encouraging news agency propaganda. I see it as my duty to educate them, or at the very least draw their attention to additional facets of information that they might otherwise have overlooked.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

At this point my daughter or my ex would roll their eyes and start speaking defensively. (Which makes me nuts

Sometimes people accuse by saying something like 'anti american'
A tactic to win an argument.
They try to wind you up as they can't compete.
In reality it's conversation for a completely different purpose.

Decades ago we gave rise to isis as a result of invading iraq for their oil fields. Ergo, it's our own fault that we're in this mess

Where it all began -. William Knox Darcy.
William Knox D'Arcy - Wikipedia

But we're all hypocrites driving our cars,

 

[WereBear]

Just don't discuss politics. Or religion. Because there's a reason for that rule

I find a lot of truth in this discussion about how we respond compared to NTs, because from my experience, NTs can have an opinion without facts; and cling to it. Without facts. Because it has become part of their persona in the Jungian sense:

Persona (psychology) The persona, for Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, was the social face the individual presented to the world—"a kind of mask, designed on the one hand to make a definite impression upon others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual".​

Whereas I am about facts: they are not part of my ego. If I discover a fact has been updated, I update it in my own mind, pleased to be more accurate, and continue on without feeling personally attacked.

But in politics, for instance, such stances become part of who the person feels they ARE. So arguments about such things become uncomfortable, especially since NTS are both trained in, and embrace, the supposed virtues of conformity, while NDs just don't care about that. At all. We really don't care if we are the only person on Earth who thinks something is so: if we think we are correct, then yes, the rest of you are all wrong.

I suggest that @sisselcakes consider that they will not get consensus, but instead be prepared to find some scientific justification for what they often argue about, and then at least you will be arguing about data and the Scientific Method... not what seems like someone who is being annoying on purpose or argumentative for the sake of it.

Sounds like the two of you are using different criteria to feel "right" and so maybe there's some ground rules which should be set.

 

[Sid Delicious]

Today was a very good example of why I am so exacting about wanting people around me to be aware of facts, and one that may be useful to hear for any non-aspies reading this thread (I'm sure this sort of thing comes up in other aspie-non aspie relationships).

My family has a lot of very gossipy non-aspies that don't care so much about the truth. They tend to discuss things among themselves for months/years without checking facts and can build up an entire backstory that they base other assumptions/opinions on that the object of the discussion is unaware of until things explode.

Today I received multiple long, very angry text messages from my sister accusing me of being treated unfairly by our parents and everyone else and listing multiple 'examples' to back up her claim and saying she needed time away from the family as a result, etc. This is what I refer to as a 'normie explosion' (sort of an equivalent to an 'autistic meltdown') .

After calming her down and trying to work out exactly what had happened, I realised that several members of my family had decided that my parents and brother had paid for all my driving lessons (I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum that I'm learning to drive finally) and multiple other things in the past. This was based on one person (we'll call person A) overhearing that my brother was 'giving me money for christmas for driving'. In reality, my brother and I always give one another gifts and this year he gave me cash instead to put towards lessons and in November instead of December since I had to book them earlier. He helped me out by doing so, as I didn't have the money at hand in November, but my sister and parents received a gift of the same value so it wasn't unfair. But person A took this to mean my brother was paying for all my lessons (which so far is about £1600) and didn't bother to check if this were true. They then told person B in the family. Then they told my sister and pointed out how unfair that was and asked if she was concerned.

Person A and other gossips in the family then apparently discussed other times in my life where I was in financial trouble (after uni I was close to bankruptcy due to student debts/loans) and assumed without checking that my parents had helped out because I moved back home. In reality, I was paying my parents above local rate rent each month (since they were trying to pay off their mortgage) as well as money towards other things. I moved back home because I broke up with my ex and had trust issues that meant I didn't want a share another flat with a total stranger. In financial terms, it actually cost me more to move back home. My parents did very well out of it. So the reality was the opposite. But again, they didn't check facts and this has clearly been an assumption held among certain people in the family for a while now.

Another assumption was that I received money from my parents towards college/university. I guess because I have such a strict routine (and plan ahead years in advance) that I manage to live on much less money than the average person and they simply can't comprehend how anyone could live their own expensive middle class lifestyle AND pay off tens of thousands in debts while not earning much. So again, they assumed that I must have had help from somewhere and didn't bother to check the facts.

My family attended a cousin's wedding last weekend that required staying in another part of the country for a couple of nights. Again, it was assumed that my parents paid for this. Again, they were wrong but no one asked me. If anything, I go out of my way to pay for not only my own expenses but also spend far more on other people when it comes to gifts or money for other things. I don't keep a tally of what is spent (I'm only considering it now due to the issue coming up), but I know that I am far more generous than those in my family who earn a LOT more and really have no right to complain. Due to the issue of money coming up in the past, I am paranoid about anyone ever buying me anything, as I know someone will throw it back in my face at a later date. I could spend £1000 on someone, but if certain family members see someone paying for drinks or a meal then the assumption will be made that I am getting spoiled and not paying my way. No one will check the facts.

I have been trading stocks for several years (mainly out of neccessity due to the above situation, now as a hobby). I need a lot of time alone anyway, but I also need to focus when trading and will therefore spend evenings staring at graphs rather than sitting downstairs with other people watching mindless crap on TV for hours. I'm very open about this and have (politely) explained multiple times over the years that I have no interest in watching TV (especially not the sort of thing other people choose to watch - they wouldn't enjoy what I prefer to watch either) and would rather be trading. If there is a family gathering or if people come over for dinner, then I will happily sit and chat with them while they are in the house. But if they come over to just sit in front of the TV or watch a film, then I will go elsewhere as they aren't talking and it's a waste of time. I always ask about their plans and hang around to say hello and chat for a bit first, to be friendly. But I won't sit there for 2-3 hours staring at the TV like they do. But instead it is assumed that I must dislike people or have a problem with them. I've never said anything to suggest that and no one has ever asked me to check. They assume and take that assumption as fact.

There are other assumptions that were made that I won't bother describing, as the above is enough. The point is the non-aspies in my family don't check facts and instead just make up stories in their head that are then shared with other non-aspies who also don't check facts. This leads to tons of gossiping and drama behind the scenes that ends up negatively affecting me (and other people who get dragged into it). I have heard the same sort of gossiping behind other people's backs, but when trying to correct their assumptions I am considered blunt, controlling, rude, etc (all the labels given to aspies on a regular basis). They decide a story and then hate to be corrected.

In the end, I simply spammed photos of all my bank statements to my sister showing payments made for driving and everything else. Fortunately, I keep statements for years so I have hard proof that all the gossip is utter rubbish. But I shouldn't have to even worry about this stuff. I've now wasted several hours of the day sorting this drama out. I don't get this from the aspies in my family. We all tend to expect this sort of crap from people and assume everything is a lie/exaggeration unless there is real evidence (which is normally the case).

Edit: Apologies for the rant, but as it was relevant to the discussion I hope it's a useful example of why aspies are so fussy about being accurate and why we find it exhausting to be around non-aspies at times.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Today was a very good example of why I am so exacting about wanting people around me to be aware of facts, and one that may be useful to hear for any non-aspies reading this thread (I'm sure this sort of thing comes up in other aspie-non aspie relationships).

My family has a lot of very gossipy non-aspies that don't care so much about the truth. They tend to discuss things among themselves for months/years without checking facts and can build up an entire backstory that they base other assumptions/opinions on that the object of the discussion is unaware of until things explode.

Today I received multiple long, very angry text messages from my sister accusing me of being treated unfairly by our parents and everyone else and listing multiple 'examples' to back up her claim and saying she needed time away from the family as a result, etc. This is what I refer to as a 'normie explosion' (sort of an equivalent to an 'autistic meltdown') .

After calming her down and trying to work out exactly what had happened, I realised that several members of my family had decided that my parents and brother had paid for all my driving lessons (I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum that I'm learning to drive finally) and multiple other things in the past. This was based on one person (we'll call person A) overhearing that my brother was 'giving me money for christmas for driving'. In reality, my brother and I always give one another gifts and this year he gave me cash instead to put towards lessons and in November instead of December since I had to book them earlier. He helped me out by doing so, as I didn't have the money at hand in November, but my sister and parents received a gift of the same value so it wasn't unfair. But person A took this to mean my brother was paying for all my lessons (which so far is about £1600) and didn't bother to check if this were true. They then told person B in the family. Then they told my sister and pointed out how unfair that was and asked if she was concerned.

Person A and other gossips in the family then apparently discussed other times in my life where I was in financial trouble (after uni I was close to bankruptcy due to student debts/loans) and assumed without checking that my parents had helped out because I moved back home. In reality, I was paying my parents above local rate rent each month (since they were trying to pay off their mortgage) as well as money towards other things. I moved back home because I broke up with my ex and had trust issues that meant I didn't want a share another flat with a total stranger. In financial terms, it actually cost me more to move back home. My parents did very well out of it. So the reality was the opposite. But again, they didn't check facts and this has clearly been an assumption held among certain people in the family for a while now.

Another assumption was that I received money from my parents towards college/university. I guess because I have such a strict routine (and plan ahead years in advance) that I manage to live on much less money than the average person and they simply can't comprehend how anyone could live their own expensive middle class lifestyle AND pay off tens of thousands in debts while not earning much. So again, they assumed that I must have had help from somewhere and didn't bother to check the facts.

My family attended a cousin's wedding last weekend that required staying in another part of the country for a couple of nights. Again, it was assumed that my parents paid for this. Again, they were wrong but no one asked me. If anything, I go out of my way to pay for not only my own expenses but also spend far more on other people when it comes to gifts or money for other things. I don't keep a tally of what is spent (I'm only considering it now due to the issue coming up), but I know that I am far more generous than those in my family who earn a LOT more and really have no right to complain. Due to the issue of money coming up in the past, I am paranoid about anyone ever buying me anything, as I know someone will throw it back in my face at a later date. I could spend £1000 on someone, but if certain family members see someone paying for drinks or a meal then the assumption will be made that I am getting spoiled and not paying my way. No one will check the facts.

I have been trading stocks for several years (mainly out of neccessity due to the above situation, now as a hobby). I need a lot of time alone anyway, but I also need to focus when trading and will therefore spend evenings staring at graphs rather than sitting downstairs with other people watching mindless crap on TV for hours. I'm very open about this and have (politely) explained multiple times over the years that I have no interest in watching TV (especially not the sort of thing other people choose to watch - they wouldn't enjoy what I prefer to watch either) and would rather be trading. If there is a family gathering or if people come over for dinner, then I will happily sit and chat with them while they are in the house. But if they come over to just sit in front of the TV or watch a film, then I will go elsewhere as they aren't talking and it's a waste of time. I always ask about their plans and hang around to say hello and chat for a bit first, to be friendly. But I won't sit there for 2-3 hours staring at the TV like they do. But instead it is assumed that I must dislike people or have a problem with them. I've never said anything to suggest that and no one has ever asked me to check. They assume and take that assumption as fact.

There are other assumptions that were made that I won't bother describing, as the above is enough. The point is the non-aspies in my family don't check facts and instead just make up stories in their head that are then shared with other non-aspies who also don't check facts. This leads to tons of gossiping and drama behind the scenes that ends up negatively affecting me (and other people who get dragged into it). I have heard the same sort of gossiping behind other people's backs, but when trying to correct their assumptions I am considered blunt, controlling, rude, etc (all the labels given to aspies on a regular basis). They decide a story and then hate to be corrected.

In the end, I simply spammed photos of all my bank statements to my sister showing payments made for driving and everything else. Fortunately, I keep statements for years so I have hard proof that all the gossip is utter rubbish. But I shouldn't have to even worry about this stuff. I've now wasted several hours of the day sorting this drama out. I don't get this from the aspies in my family. We all tend to expect this sort of crap from people and assume everything is a lie/exaggeration unless there is real evidence (which is normally the case).

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[Anthracite]

I have this problem with my family so often and I'm always the "bad guy". I'm just saying, that's all I'm doing, not trying to be a smartarse, not thinking I'm "always right"... all of this is so familiar I feel I need to print off this page and make them read it.

 

[sisselcakes]

Thanks so much for your response.

THIS, I can relate to. Wow, it's me.

Whereas I am about facts: they are not part of my ego. If I discover a fact has been updated, I update it in my own mind, pleased to be more accurate, and continue on without feeling personally attacked.

And this is so my bf:

We really don't care if we are the only person on Earth who thinks something is so: if we think we are correct, then yes, the rest of you are all wrong.

Its good to understand the root of the frustration- a different way of seeing the world. After reading Mia's earlier responses, I became more aware of what bothers me. I can handle him not agreeing with me, but I don't want him dismissing everything I say. It comes across as belittling and patronizing.

We do agree not to talk about politics, but sometimes things sneak in in everyday life. It's his strong reaction and dismissing my POV that I can't tolerate.

 

[sisselcakes]

I have this problem with my family so often and I'm always the "bad guy". I'm just saying, that's all I'm doing, not trying to be a smartarse, not thinking I'm "always right"... all of this is so familiar I feel I need to print off this page and make them read it.

Oh wow. I didn't know that someone else on here could relate, but from the other side! I'm curious. In the case of you and your family, why do they think you are the "bad guy"? Do they say what you do that makes them think this?

 

[sisselcakes]

Just don't discuss politics. Or religion. Because there's a reason for that rule

I find a lot of truth in this discussion about how we respond compared to NTs, because from my experience, NTs can have an opinion without facts; and cling to it. Without facts. Because it has become part of their persona in the Jungian sense:

Persona (psychology) The persona, for Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, was the social face the individual presented to the world—"a kind of mask, designed on the one hand to make a definite impression upon others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual".​

Whereas I am about facts: they are not part of my ego. If I discover a fact has been updated, I update it in my own mind, pleased to be more accurate, and continue on without feeling personally attacked.

But in politics, for instance, such stances become part of who the person feels they ARE. So arguments about such things become uncomfortable, especially since NTS are both trained in, and embrace, the supposed virtues of conformity, while NDs just don't care about that. At all. We really don't care if we are the only person on Earth who thinks something is so: if we think we are correct, then yes, the rest of you are all wrong.

I suggest that @sisselcakes consider that they will not get consensus, but instead be prepared to find some scientific justification for what they often argue about, and then at least you will be arguing about data and the Scientific Method... not what seems like someone who is being annoying on purpose or argumentative for the sake of it.

Sounds like the two of you are using different criteria to feel "right" and so maybe there's some ground rules which should be set.

Another thought. I just responded to your response, but thought about it a little more. I guess the fact I feel dismissed still is ego-based. I'm not saying that's a reason to not address it with him or that I should just try to accept feeling that way, but I do have to admit that the very experience of feeling dismissed and invalidated is ego-based.

 

[sisselcakes]

This thread is a little disheartening to read.

Growing up, I was constantly punished for "arguing" with my parents and teachers.

My step dad used to tell me, "You're really messed up. You just HAVE to be right, don't you? You just HAVE to disagree with every single thing that's said, right? That's how you feel in control. You can't STAND it when you're not right!"

This always felt like such a slap in the face. I don't have a need to be right. I don't assert myself to" feel in control ". It's NOT an emotional issue, like it seems to be for him and others.

I'm super literal, and when someone says something to me that doesn't make sense, I respond accordingly. I tell them what I heard doesn't make sense and I offer clarifying information.

This is interpreted as an attack to many neurotypical people who are too emotionally shallow to even comprehend their own stupid need for control in social situations. Everything to them is a pissing contest, and they just have to take things too far. They get angry and loud, they get defensive. They don't see me or my actions for what they are... Anyway, clearly I've got some unresolved issues related to trauma.

But I don't think I have a need to be right. In fact, I am extremely eager to communicate clearly with the world. I want to learn,and I want to grow. It's disappointing to grow up and realize that others would rather cling to their societal constructed beliefs and schemas, rather than seize any new piece of data and run with it the way I do.

Holy cow. Thanks for sharing your experience. You described the dynamic perfectly, and it's kind of what I was looking for because I suspect he's not trying to control. He's not manipulative. It doesn't feel intentionally hurtful.

Still, as an NT, I'm going to have to figure out a way to address it because the dynamic enrages me. I think the first step is not discussing politics, but it does seep into other things too. It's just politics is a passionate area so that tends to get me more upset.

That must have been so frustrating to you, with people assuming you were attempting to control, when they were actually reflecting their own inner drives and understanding of NT human nature. They couldn't understand you were simply being matter-of-fact. They perceived it as argumentative or needing to be right.

I can put myself in their shoes and almost guarantee they felt you weren't hearing them. There's something about us NT's where we need validation. Even if someone says, I disagree or "you're wrong", someone saying that they hear our point of view and acknowledge it as valuable is imperative. I wouldn't be able to explain why this is true. I only know it is! LOL It's soothing to us and makes us feel connected to a person. That would be the best way to explain it.

Are you still trying to work on this with people in your life? I'd be happy to offer some suggestions in terms of how to address these incidents if you'd like

 

[Anthracite]

Oh wow. I didn't know that someone else on here could relate, but from the other side! I'm curious. In the case of you and your family, why do they think you are the "bad guy"? Do they say what you do that makes them think this?

I suspect it's because I correct them - I'm pedantic, I value facts over feelings. Recent example, my mother said we now have to wash the dog's feet any time she's been in water because of Alabama rot going around. I asked (because I don't know, I admit I don't know everything!) whether that would actually do anything; is Alabama rot caused by germs? If so just washing won't solve it. Is it caused by damp? If so, getting her legs wetter may make it more likely. She then went and shouted at me telling me to stop "arguing" and just do it. I can only assume, because it was her idea, her ego was damaged by the idea it may not work *shrugs* My only concern was the actual result.

Other examples are usually to do with me examining things from both sides and trying to come to a fair conclusion based on evidence, instead of just going with gut reactions. I once gained a rather cold shoulder because I suggested paedophiles aren't automatically bad people and should be treated medically to stop their urges, as opposed to the gut reaction of assuming they're all child abusers and should be "strung up". My view is backed up by the relatively low rates of child molestation in Germany, where paedophiles can go to special clinics and get treated before they do anything. This is opposed to the USA, where a paedophile admitting their feelings is automatically jailed, thus meaning they don't get help, therefore they end up hurting kids.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but hopefully you get the idea. I'm not setting out to demolish anyone's ego, it's just my ego and facts are separate.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

That must have been so frustrating to you, with people assuming you were attempting to control, when they were actually reflecting their own inner drives and understanding of NT human nature. They couldn't understand you were simply being matter-of-fact. They perceived it as argumentative or needing to be right.

Everybody here got a job lot of T-shirts with that written on them.

They're all worn out.

Are you still trying to work on this with people in your life? I'd be happy to offer some suggestions in terms of how to address these incidents if you'd like

Everybody is.

Let us have it.


Ambiguity duly noted!

 

[WereBear]

My view is backed up by the relatively low rates of child molestation in Germany, where paedophiles can go to special clinics and get treated before they do anything. This is opposed to the USA, where a paedophile admitting their feelings is automatically jailed, thus meaning they don't get help, therefore they end up hurting kids.

Not only do I agree with you, I think this is an excellent illustration of how NT vs ND thinking plays out.

In the US, we have an “ND override” where we express our upset with the situation by being emotional about the subject, and display our anger towards the perpetrators as a way of showing our care for the victims involved.

In Germany (and they are a nation of scientists and engineers historically) there is that ND approach about “how best we can solve the problem.”

 

[Mary Lyn]

I lived in Germany for 2 years, and did not know I was apsie at the time. I absolutely loved some aspects of it - the order and sense that the ruling forces were actually intelligent and their aim was to make life easier for people not like in the UK where they seem to be like a herd of idiots.

The order was wonderful for me and included little things like - the supermarkets did not keep changing things around - it all stayed the same, and was not all about profit. Competition was not encouraged and you would not be able to find all you wanted in one store - there would be chemists for a lot of things that you find in a UK supermarket.

When you rang your bank or any gov department, you got quickly through to who could deal with you and it happened quickly and efficiently - ah!

It is an aspie paradise and in fact I think that all Germans are aspies lol

 

[sisselcakes]

"He said he gets very frustrated because he doesn’t see the logic of my beliefs and he gets annoyed with illogical ideas. I’m passionate about my beliefs - not the best mix."

I have to ask... how can you be passionate about your ideas if they make no logical sense?
(ducks behind the sofa)

Having said that, I do understand where you are both coming from. I grew up in a big family that is a mix of aspie/non-aspies and heard the exact same miscommunication over and over again. To someone with autism/aspergers, facts and truth are the most important thing. To someone without autism/aspergers, emotions and feelings tend to be the most important thing. It's a generalisation, but seems to hold true for everyone I know (including myself).

As a child, I would get really upset as I couldn't understand why everyone kept lying to me all the time. I would take it very badly if someone told me anything and I later found out they were joking, being sarcastic, exaggerating, saying something for attention/emotion/entertainment, or simply had changed their mind and forgot to tell me. I felt as though either everyone around me was an idiot or that I simply couldn't trust anyone not to make stuff up. I was very literal.

I think many of us develop more compassion for the way non-aspies think as we get older and learn to talk their language sometimes. However, not all aspies manage this (or ever get the opportunity to learn) or we simply get tired of speaking a foreign language all day long and not having others try to do the same in return. In effect, I have to make myself either lie or accept lies when communicating with non-aspies. Which I am usually happy to do, as they are generally people I care about and want to make happy (family, etc) or it is in my best interest to do so (colleagues, etc). I basically spend all day nodding and smiling when people tell me black is actually white or something that is 1m long is actually 100m long. I know it's wrong, my brain is screaming at me that it's wrong, but I've learned to just react the 'right' way. However, I couldn't do this with a partner. It's incredibly tiring and I need to be able to switch off when I get home and just be (my version of) normal. It isn't a control thing. I simply get worn out having to put on an act.

I imagine your partner is the same and regardless of how much he cares about you, he can't speak your language 24/7. It gets exhausting, even after years of practice. Sometimes you just want someone to say 'yes, actually white is white and 1m is not the same as 100m' or it starts to feel as if you are going mad. If he's tired or stressed already, then I suspect he reacts instinctively before he has time to stop and remind himself to translate his thoughts into your 'language'. I would say try to meet him half way. I'm fairly certain (based on my own experience and that of aspie/non-aspie couples in my own family) that he doesn't actively enjoy upsetting you, but just gets exhausted/frustrated sometimes of having to be constantly bilingual.

For his part, I would suggest he learns a better method of 'correcting' your words. Bluntness rarely works as people will get defensive and simply back up their point of view with even more emotion, which isn't conducive to debate. So it's in his interest to find a more appropriate (to you) way of exploring what you think (or simply avoid the subject entirely if that is impossible for the both of you). I used to have huge arguments with other people as a child until I learned better ways to point out the lack of logic in what they were saying.

Either way, I hope you find a solution that the both of you are happy with.

Hi there.

I apparently don't know how these threads work because I came on here to see new messages and had missed your earlier one.

Ducking behind sofa made me chuckle. Don't worry. I won't throw anything at you, though I've wanted to do that a few times with my bf.

You ask a fair question- how can I believe something that isn't based on logic? Well, this makes me wonder what exactly is logic? Admittedly, I get emotional and perhaps a logical person would say "irrational".

I don't know how to explain it other than I get very angry at injustice. It's ultimately a values thing, rather than a logic vs. emotional thing but I think we PERCEIVE it differently. I've seen on here that many members are sensitive to injustice and my bf is as well. He seems to see it differently.

Do you think aspies miss nuances in meta-communication (i.e. propaganda) or am I just assuming this because my bf doesn't see things from MY perspective? I'm trying to avoid getting too political here, but let's put it this way, I'm very sensitive to the message, the message that isn't explicitly stated- that lies in between the spoken word. My bf seems kind of clueless in this sense, at least from my point of view.

Okay, so back to your comments. Yes. For us NT's, emotion, feeling, and intuition is valued; BUT the kicker is we think we are being logical. LOL. Talking with all of you on here has been a mind-opening experience. I enjoy trying to understand a different way of thinking even though I can't really make my brain do it.

That sucks as a kid feeling like people were lying to you. Must have been confusing. Your reflection really helps me try to grasp a different point of view. I actually think I understand what you mean about having to lie just to deal socially. It must be tiring to be so intentional and have to be fake for an extended period of time.

You say that your brain screams that it's black when people tell you it's white (or something like that). I feel like I would lose it if I had to do that. Doesn't that create a feeling of pressure that you have to somehow release? It's so interesting to me that you say you couldn't do this with your partner. It would be too tiring. I feel exactly the same way. I can't deal with the constant "arguing". It wears me down. This observation makes me feel a lot more compassionate toward my bf and appreciate the effort he makes in trying not to offend me. (Of course, I just pulled him in here to ask him if it feels this way and he answers "I don't know" and I'm not sure if he's being sincere or if he thinks the "wrong answer" will make me mad.)

Okay, wrapping up, I think I'm just gonna read him this thread and see if he can relate. I appreciate your feedback soooo much.

 

[sisselcakes]

I suspect it's because I correct them - I'm pedantic, I value facts over feelings. Recent example, my mother said we now have to wash the dog's feet any time she's been in water because of Alabama rot going around. I asked (because I don't know, I admit I don't know everything!) whether that would actually do anything; is Alabama rot caused by germs? If so just washing won't solve it. Is it caused by damp? If so, getting her legs wetter may make it more likely. She then went and shouted at me telling me to stop "arguing" and just do it. I can only assume, because it was her idea, her ego was damaged by the idea it may not work *shrugs* My only concern was the actual result.

Other examples are usually to do with me examining things from both sides and trying to come to a fair conclusion based on evidence, instead of just going with gut reactions. I once gained a rather cold shoulder because I suggested paedophiles aren't automatically bad people and should be treated medically to stop their urges, as opposed to the gut reaction of assuming they're all child abusers and should be "strung up". My view is backed up by the relatively low rates of child molestation in Germany, where paedophiles can go to special clinics and get treated before they do anything. This is opposed to the USA, where a paedophile admitting their feelings is automatically jailed, thus meaning they don't get help, therefore they end up hurting kids.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, but hopefully you get the idea. I'm not setting out to demolish anyone's ego, it's just my ego and facts are separate.

I love how you put that- your ego and facts are separate. Most of us NT's couldn't relate to that. It's so foreign.

So I'm sitting here reading your message and decide to ask my bf if he thinks he has an ego and he responds, "Do you know anyone who doesn't have an ego?" Well my thought is, THAT'S NOT WHAT I ASKED! Geez.

I completely get your point about how people reacted to your very rational ideas about pedophiles; and I understand how NT's would react violently to your showing any semblance of understanding them from a scientific (for lack of a better word) point of view. Just for the record, I have a friend that works in the prison system with sexual offenders who says there is an emerging school of thought that pedophilia could be akin to a sexual orientation, but that's another convo.

So, I sit here contemplating this and it seems to me that all of us can get worked up when addressing certain issues. I get passionate because of an emotional attachment to an idea and your heart rate would likely increase when an idea doesn't make sense.

Oh. By the way, just FYI, I'm sure you are right about people getting annoyed with your attempts to correct them. A question- if someone were able to "win you over" with facts, would being corrected annoy you? I'm guessing not because you would respect the "truth", right?

 

[sisselcakes]

This is because we like to debate. It's not an argument for me, it's an intellectual exercise. He might not even realize you think he's arguing. He could think he's being helpful even.

He totally thinks it's helpful. He says the world would be a better place if people thought like him, which sounds grandiose to an NT; but I really don't believe that it's ego on his part. I don't get the gut feeling that he's self-centered. He really believes he sees things logically and that most people are irrational. If they thought like him the world would be a more orderly, logical, and better place, overall.