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BF disputes EVERYTHING I say

I learn so much from these threads. That might be why i don't read them every day... I need to take breaks to integrate things.

Most people would probably say I mask my autistic traits very well. In fact, some have argued that they don't exist.... but not those people who have lived with me.

Look, if you present a point of view, I consider that an open door to expressing my own view. Not maliciously. Not because I think that I, and only I, have all the answers. But because thoughts are always stewing in my head and if you open the door to discourse on something I've thought about, I'm going to talk about it. Not only that, if I've given any thought at all to the topic and if it, heaven forbid, deals with one of my personal VALUES, I'm going to speak my truth clearly.

At this point I'm usually accused of thinking I'm always right.
At this point my daughter or my ex would roll their eyes and start speaking defensively. (Which makes me nuts, I never quite know when they're going to bring all that negative emotion into the mix and I don't always remain calm in the face of that.)

What started as something that, to me, was no more emotionally-charged than a statement like "cookies are sweet," can end in tears and someone melting down.

I hate this whole thing. It's that one cowpie on the road that I step in, again and again, despite decades of navel-gazing.

For the record, when I make those definitive statements I never do so with malice, an intent to control, a need to be right, OR a lack of disrespect.

Cookies are sweet, in my experience. By saying so I don't rule out the possibility of the existence of bitter cookies....

I missed your message because I haven't been on here in a while, but I felt compelled to respond because your response was full of good insights. I'm glad you find the threads enlightening because sometimes I feel like my posts are going to be perceived as a super annoying NT bellyaching about things. I find them enlightening too and really appreciate the perspective they give me.

You pretty much summed up what happens to me and my bf on a regular, but with a lessening frequency. It was this that I could really relate: I hate this whole thing. It's that one cowpie on the road that I step in, again and again, despite decades of navel-gazing.

It's like I think I've finally mastered the way to communicate effectively with my AS boyfriend just to look down and realize I've stepped into another cowpie (or should I say we've stepped into it together).

It's extremely unnerving and frustrating in the moment, but I am always able to get back to a place of composure, look back on what happened, dissect it, and move forward, hoping I've learned; yet, then it happens again!
 
It's extremely unnerving and frustrating in the moment, but I am always able to get back to a place of composure, look back on what happened, dissect it, and move forward, hoping I've learned; yet, then it happens again!

Moving forward with humor,forgiveness and learning to love your mistakes.

Is my method.

Better when both sides join in :)
 
I am mostly in agreement with previous posts. This is an interesting and enjoyable thread. I think that I may be able to add a mechanism that is a potential source of misunderstanding and a problem. It seems to me that the severity of offence is often greatly modified by the perceived motivation of whatever act has caused the offence.

It is possible that there are times when he is taking exception to the internal logic of your beliefs as opposed to the facts upon which your beliefs are based. It is easy to tell if he's disputing your base facts if you are both presenting them. I will tell someone that their beliefs are wrong if they have base facts incorrect, and will be willing to listen to an alternate set of base facts in many cases, and will at least be willing to address them if only to give reason for dismissing them.

I think that it's important to discuss religion and politics. I understand the rule, it is one that keeps an individual out of harm's way in the short term, and keeps the status quo in the long term. These things guide how our society acts as a whole (although there are other factors at play) and changing people's beliefs in these spheres is one of the most important things a person can do to change things for the better in my opinion.

However I am willing to accept that others have different points of view, different priorities, different belief systems. I am not willing to accept that others have different rules of logic. They may think that they do, however the simple fact is that they're illogical, are breaking the rules of logic, they are not making sense.

Perhaps you ought to phrase your statements differently (to please him) or get him to accept that it is your style of communication to be incorrect in a certain regard, however this enables you to accurately convey something else (to please you). An example of the latter may be that you say that an eight foot tall person shouted at you, when really he was only six foot six. You have inaccurately expressed the facts, however you may well have accurately expressed how intimidated you felt.

It may be important to him for you to begin your statements with something along the lines of "Given that it's a good thing to accomplish such and such, we ought to...". If you simply begin by saying "We ought to..." you have assumed common goals that may not exist. And then the one thing had better be a logical consequence of the other. I might disagree with you when I believe what you begin with and what you end with if you have drawn a false conclusion. A commonly used example that serves here is that I have a rock, and there are no tigers here and never are, therefore the rock keeps tigers away. I might agree that you have the rock and that there are no tigers, but I'll not agree that one follows from the other. It's possible that he pays more attention to the way that you phrase things than you do, and answers to exactly what you said rather than what you meant - as might be apparent to an NT by your non-verbal communication or some form of intuition derived from differently functioning minds.

If it is difficult for you to present sets of ideas in perfect order you might try offering ideas as simple statements of opinion instead of making apparent statements of fact or presenting sequences of reasoning where it might be applicable. I do not mean to suggest that you're stupid, there are brilliant people who have different gifts. I consider my innate ability to refer to a priori logic and apply it a gift, one that I'm obliged to use well. I will not agree to things that contradict it. I will not encourage others to do so either, that would be like allowing a blind person to walk into a ditch when I am next to them and I can see it. You see things I don't see, too. If my response sounds one-sided, it's because I'm most able to offer relevant information from only the one viewpoint. I think it's great that you're trying to see his side.

Thank you for your perspective. I've just decided to keep a journal, of sorts, with insights I've gotten from members here so I can reference them in the future. Yours is a keeper for sure.

This is likely true It is possible that there are times when he is taking exception to the internal logic of your beliefs as opposed to the facts upon which your beliefs are based. I had never thought of this and it could definitely be the case.

Also, your point about the way things are phrased- I'm very passionate about certain subjects such as human rights and social justice so I speak about them hyperbolically, I'm sure. That's just passion. This makes for an explosive situation when someone interrupts by trying to disprove what I'm saying.

Having expressed my frustration at dealing with what I see as his being illogical (or perhaps overly literal. I really can't tease out what's really going on in the moment), I will say that I have gained a whole new level of patience and tolerance for those who see things differently from me.

I like your ideas about prefacing a discussion in a certain way, so as to clarify the intent of my comments or to give context to what I am about to say. With the current state of the USA, where we live, things are pretty ugly and I'm very upset about many issues. Sometimes I just have to get something off my chest and I will preface a comment with, "I know we have agreed to not discuss politics but I have to say this because it's really bothering me. Please don't argue with me about it." He will listen and not say a peep. I hope that's not being unfair on my part but I'm not looking for a discussion, I just need someone to hear what's bothering me.

The bottom line conclusion that I've come to in reading all of these posts is that there is always more to learn about each other and ourselves. It's never going to end. I just hope we can keep improving. Having a relationship with an aspie has opened a whole new horizon for me.
 
Assume that he is not a native language user, and needs to translate non-literal to literal. Most of the time I can do this, but if tired or stressed I can mistranslate something.
I really try! I sat up last night after a misunderstanding trying to figure out how to make a flowchart or something and I just can't put myself in his mindset to figure it out. I think the biggest problem is I'm trying to troubleshoot this when I'm emotional. I usually get better perspective when I've cooled off.
 
Facts "change" depending on the circumstances. Democrats are correct that government is efficient, and Republicans are correct that government is inefficient. The more people that pull their resources the better, but if you have too few folks than pulling resources is not helpful. There is a point where a million dollar firetruck is efficient, and a point where it is not.

City folk look at country folk like they are simple if they say that government is inefficient . . . because clearly for them government is efficient (and the opposite is true).
 
Facts "change" depending on the circumstances. Democrats are correct that government is efficient, and Republicans are correct that government is inefficient. The more people that pull their resources the better, but if you have too few folks than pulling resources is not helpful. There is a point where a million dollar firetruck is efficient, and a point where it is not.

City folk look at country folk like they are simple if they say that government is inefficient . . . because clearly for them government is efficient (and the opposite is true).

Hmmm. Good food for thought. We do all start with our own perspective and then interpret information from that point of view. He leaned conservative for years before I met him. I think my more liberal point of view makes absolute perfect sense. How could someone not see this is true?

However, as we have gotten to know each other better and I'm less defensive and emotional about my beliefs, I'm able to analyze it more objectively and realize how he's come to the conclusions he has and why I've come to my own.

Still, I have to be careful to not tread into areas where I'm extremely passionate (social justice) or it could get too explosive. Usually I will tell him I just can't go there with regard to a certain subject and he will respect it because those aren't things he's passionate about (though I still have trouble understanding why he isn't).
 
...he will respect it because those aren't things he's passionate about (though I still have trouble understanding why he isn't).

I suspect that some of us aspies tend to become extraordinarily passionate about some things, which simply doesn't leave room for all other things.

None of us can do everything (although Elon Musk is trying), we must accept that in order to do anything well we must ignore a great many things at least temporarily. Perhaps being more than usually unique we on the spectrum are more than usually willing to accept that we have our own part to play that is in some way separate from what others are doing, even when we're part of the same team.

When I feel great respect for someone and their knowledge and/or abilities lie in different areas than my own it gives me comfort to think that something which is important is in the hands of that person. Perhaps he feels he does not need to worry about those things because you do, and you are so great to him.
 
With absolutely no disrespect intended or implied. Now with that out of the way, for what's it's worth. You are absolutely correct when you say that for you the more liberal points of view you hold make absolute sense for you and your circumstances and that's okay. Happy meal for you but the view of the world that works so well for you may not work for other people.


Hmmm. Good food for thought. We do all start with our own perspective and then interpret information from that point of view. He leaned conservative for years before I met him. I think my more liberal point of view makes absolute perfect sense. How could someone not see this is true?

However, as we have gotten to know each other better and I'm less defensive and emotional about my beliefs, I'm able to analyze it more objectively and realize how he's come to the conclusions he has and why I've come to my own.

Still, I have to be careful to not tread into areas where I'm extremely passionate (social justice) or it could get too explosive. Usually I will tell him I just can't go there with regard to a certain subject and he will respect it because those aren't things he's passionate about (though I still have trouble understanding why he isn't).
 
When I feel great respect for someone and their knowledge and/or abilities lie in different areas than my own it gives me comfort to think that something which is important is in the hands of that person. Perhaps he feels he does not need to worry about those things because you do, and you are so great to him.

Generally I enjoy talking to folks I respect. Debating someone I respect is also fun. I normally do not debate something with someone I do not respect. The exception is if I am board, and I choose to debate . . . likely on the internet in a space where people talk about ideas.
 
With absolutely no disrespect intended or implied. Now with that out of the way, for what's it's worth. You are absolutely correct when you say that for you the more liberal points of view you hold make absolute sense for you and your circumstances and that's okay. Happy meal for you but the view of the world that works so well for you may not work for other people.

Basically I think that we have liberal brains and conservative brains for a reason. I think that many of us are just born with a liberal or conservative brain. Both are successful. Both should be valued. They are personality traits and we developed them for a reason.

I do not even know where to begin to think like a conservative. I look into how things are done, and whether or not they work . . . that is the first thing I do. I think that a diversity of thought and experience is highly useful (strong liberal trait). So I collect the opinions and procedures of those who are different than I am. I can care less if the method was brand new, old, or who it was used by (conservatives tend to highly value the traditions of the same group). Does it work is the primary objective (likely the only objective). I don't care about the problem solving traditions of my group, or that a problem solving idea came from an outside group (strong liberal tendencies).

Jordan Peterson is a conservative professor that had a lot of interesting insights on IQ and behavior (I disagree with some of his points, but I find his work interesting).

I think that Jordan Peterson said that conservatives tend to see outside ideas and/or outsiders with disgust. Liberals are interested in outside ideas and/or individuals. This is why Hollywood, entertainment, and education tends to be highly liberal.
 
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With absolutely no disrespect intended or implied. Now with that out of the way, for what's it's worth. You are absolutely correct when you say that for you the more liberal points of view you hold make absolute sense for you and your circumstances and that's okay. Happy meal for you but the view of the world that works so well for you may not work for other people.
Totally fair assessment. I try to be open minded about the fact other people have their own perspectives but I feel so strongly about what is ethical and moral that my own values probably preclude my attempt to do that.
 
Basically I think that we have liberal brains and conservative brains for a reason. I think that many of us are just born with a liberal or conservative brain. Both are successful. Both should be valued. They are personality traits and we developed them for a reason.

I do not even know where to begin to think like a conservative. I look into how things are done, and whether or not they work . . . that is the first thing I do. I think that a diversity of thought and experience is highly useful (strong liberal trait). So I collect the opinions and procedures of those who are different than I am. I can care less if the method was brand new, old, or who it was used by (conservatives tend to highly value the traditions of the same group). Does it work is the primary objective (likely the only objective). I don't care about the problem solving traditions of my group, or that a problem solving idea came from an outside group (strong liberal tendencies).

Jordan Peterson is a conservative professor that had a lot of interesting insights on IQ and behavior (I disagree with some of his points, but I find his work interesting).

I think that Jordan Peterson said that conservatives tend to see outside ideas and/or outsiders with disgust. Liberals are interested in outside ideas and/or individuals. This is why Hollywood, entertainment, and education tends to be highly liberal.
Science supports what professor Peterson has said about the differences between conservative and liberal points of view- that conservatives tend to reject outsiders and liberals tend to more more inclusive.

Maybe it would help me to view this difference from a scientific point of view but that’s very difficult for me because I find the former to be morally repulsive and I see how that attitude and related policies negatively affect the outside group.

Still, if the attitude is based in biology, perhaps I can try to be more understanding (she says through grinding teeth. LOL)
 
How does science support what Professor Peterson has said about differences between conservative and liberal points of view?

What kind of science is that?

Science supports what professor Peterson has said about the differences between conservative and liberal points of view- that conservatives tend to reject outsiders and liberals tend to more more inclusive.

Maybe it would help me to view this difference from a scientific point of view but that’s very difficult for me because I find the former to be morally repulsive and I see how that attitude and related policies negatively affect the outside group.

Still, if the attitude is based in biology, perhaps I can try to be more understanding (she says through grinding teeth. LOL)
 


The whole thing is a joke If fact the biggest thing many people have been duped into choosing one side or the other and creating a team A vrs team B

The truth is both sides have serious problems and as long as its this side vrs the other the people will always be divided

And both sides are riddled with lies and deceit and are powered by special interests and both sides are hypocrites

Now keep in mind I am talking in regards as to in-group not as in individual
 
The whole thing is a joke If fact the biggest thing many people have been duped into choosing one side or the other and creating a team A vrs team B

The truth is both sides have serious problems and as long as its this side vrs the other the people will always be divided

And both sides are riddled with lies and deceit and are powered by special interests and both sides are hypocrites

Now keep in mind I am talking in regards as to in-group not as in individual
Are you sure you aren’t just my bf disguised? Lol. Exactly what he says. He’s given me some new perspectives on things.

Interestingly I was up seeing his friends and families this weekend, some of whom are in the opposite tribe from me. I saw their daily lives and feel like I have a better understanding of their POV.

We should all take the time to listen to the other side more. Social media has created an barrier to doing this.

Having said all that, I do believe the social science research supports the difference between the way conserv and lib think. I mean every person is wired differently, as we well know
 
Are you sure you aren’t just my bf disguised? Lol. Exactly what he says. He’s given me some new perspectives on things.

Interestingly I was up seeing his friends and families this weekend, some of whom are in the opposite tribe from me. I saw their daily lives and feel like I have a better understanding of their POV.

We should all take the time to listen to the other side more. Social media has created an barrier to doing this.

Having said all that, I do believe the social science research supports the difference between the way conserv and lib think. I mean every person is wired differently, as we well know

I used to get caught up in politics but over the last 15 years or so I have so many things that were on top of this list of that can never happen, the craziness on both sides

On the upfront issues, both sides seem to be divided on polar opposites, I have seen lies and hypocrisy on the right and I have seen worse on the left beside the lies and hypocrisy I see violence, mob mentality, bullying all in the name of Love Then I see the right coming back with more hate and all the while the facts get lost

On the back end the infrastructure stuff, the things you don't see much in the news (because everyone is caught up bickering on the upfront stuff) both sides are passing the same stuff

It's like a divide and conquer

and that is as far as I would go on this subject anymore

"We should all take the time to listen to the other side more. "

And that is the point most people feel that is all there is one side or the other this is why there is so much division. Years ago people used to have real opinions on this subject or that which is not bound to this side or the other the truth is usually in the middle

Now most people choose all in left or all in right if you have one opinion that is not in line with say the left that person get labeled on the right and its assumed they espouse everything the right stands for and visa versa

As long as that does not change then nothing will
 
I'm not cynical, just skeptical. I doubt a person's attitude has any basis in biology.



Science supports what professor Peterson has said about the differences between conservative and liberal points of view- that conservatives tend to reject outsiders and liberals tend to more more inclusive.

Maybe it would help me to view this difference from a scientific point of view but that’s very difficult for me because I find the former to be morally repulsive and I see how that attitude and related policies negatively affect the outside group.

Still, if the attitude is based in biology, perhaps I can try to be more understanding (she says through grinding teeth. LOL)
 

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