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Featured BF disputes EVERYTHING I say

Discussion in 'Love, Relationships and Dating' started by sisselcakes, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I'm looking for feedback on communication with my bf.

    He disputes much of what I say. It feels like it’s CONSTANT and it wears me down. Like can’t you just say “uh huh” and move on in the convo?

    I thought aspies were ultra- logical, but half the time I can’t figure out where he’s coming from. His point of view makes no sense to me.

    Is this a dismissiveness or disputing me a common Aspie thing in communication or is this a personality of someone who has to dominate and always be right?
     
  2. Mia

    Mia Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Someone who has to dominate and be right. It's a form of control.
     
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  3. Theta.G

    Theta.G Well-Known Member

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    It really depends on the subject matter.
    If it's about something important, and he really is ultra logical you should listen. Even though you think of yourself as being above ultra- logical. Which simply isn't the case if the above is true.
    Before you say you don't think your above ultra- logical--- and before bleeding hearts try to castrate me for not kissing butt --- i'll point this out so it's clear as day.

    I thought aspies were ultra logical.
    but half the time i can't figure out where he is coming from.

    Meaning you see it as untrue. Because he doesn't validate whatever notions you bring up in a convo. At the end of the day that's what people really want. Validation. They don't want truth. It's too polarizing.

    With that out of the way, we tend to be ultra- literal. ;)

    If he isn't ultra- logical and you are super duper logical then he should definitely listen you... ;) same polarizing and validation thing applies to him if you are above ultra.
    ^ (Something positive! but it's in human nature to dwell on perceived negatives... let the predictable show, begin!)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
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  4. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yes yes yes! I want validation, damn it! For an NT it gets very tiring to be “invalidated”. I just want someone to say “I hear you”. Some things aren’t worth dithering about.

    It’s worth pointing out we have different political beliefs which causes some tension. Honestly that’s probably the root of a lot of this.

    Just had a convo with him. He said he gets very frustrated because he doesn’t see the logic of my beliefs and he gets annoyed with illogical ideas. I’m passionate about my beliefs - not the best mix.

    Sigh...
     
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  5. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Thanks for your insight. Always appreciate it.
     
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  6. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

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    So it's only invalidation in your mind.

    As your mind has determined the rules of engagement.
    Any definition also creates its opposite.
    No yin without Yang.

    Try this sentence ' just say you agree then kiss me'

    Be careful where you use the sentence!
     
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  7. Tom

    Tom Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure where the 'Ultra Logical' reputation comes from. I have certainly heard it before. But in my experience people on the spectrum are frequently illogical. You do see black and white thinking at times and that might be misrepresented as logic. Some on the spectrum think they are ultra logical, but again I think that is just black and white thinking.
     
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  8. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Thank you for validating my point of view. LOL. I just want some good old-fashioned validation just like any run of the mill NT.

    Maybe it's not a matter of logical vs. not (in his case). Maybe more inflexibility? That's what seems to happen. When we have discussions about things, it's like he can't readily accept new information into his "schema" (for lack of a better word). Granted, I have my world view as well, but I can understand another's point of view even if I disagree and can change my mind if the argument is LOGICAL. It's like he can't or won't even entertain a new idea.

    Could be a personality thing too- controlling and wanting to be right. There's a difference between a neurologically-bound inability to be cognitively flexible and a need to be right. The other thing that adds to the mix is we are both passionate about certain things, so we can get worked up over them (sociopolitical stuff).

    I sure appreciate your input!
     
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  9. Theta.G

    Theta.G Well-Known Member

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    I think the fix here is to find a community which you can discuss and expand upon the subject matter. Your views will be emboldened and rarely challenged, you'll get the recognition and pat on the back. Then keep those talks to that community and out of your convos with your BF since it leads to somewhere you don't desire.

    This is especially true for politics. Both of you should do your best to never bring that up in your convos. Lets say one person thinks it's wonderful to bring in 200k+ migrants from war torn countries to your home land. While the other sees it as a trojan horse which will result in the death of your own people. It doesn't matter who is right because neither of you have the pull to change it or influence it in any way. Just creates division in your relationship.
    (Example but holds true for most other politically motivated discussion)
    If he is ultra logical you can bring up this paragraph with him and an agreement will be made and your relationship should improve.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  10. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Was thinking about your response last night...

    Can you imagine if this whole time you are right and I've been perceiving it as a spectrum-related behavior that I've tried to accept? We had a long talk last night, one of the best we've ever had. He gets fixated on certain things, partly because he's passionate (as am I) about certain issues. Where it crosses the line for me is when it spills over into his trying to control what I think or believe. He can believe whatever he wants. I don't have the need to change his mind. He should do the same for me.

    The reason I haven't seen it as domineering to date (though it feels domineering) is that I work in the mental health field and am very familiar with the typical emotional abuser who needs to control and my bf doesn't have that same personality/character. It's not like he wants to take over my life, keep tabs on me, put me down, break down my self-esteem. He's generally remorseful when he realizes he's hurt my feelings. Don't know if that makes any sense.

    Your input is really helpful. Stuck with me and rolled around in my head long after I had read it.
     
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  11. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I love that!
     
  12. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Your fix is a good one. I like it. I do exactly what you said, but not with the intentionality of finding a like-minded community. I hadn't thought of it like that. I am often on Twitter reading articles and getting "validation". Funny you should bring up the refugee/immigrant thing. That's one we don't agree on. A lot of what he disputes is my point of view on sociopolitical issues. He just came out to the porch and I told him your suggestion. He raised his eyebrows and nodded, a man of few words!

    I read a book by Maxine Ashton (I think that's her name) that addresses relationships between AS men and NT women. One of the issues she addresses is an AS man's complaint that women exaggerate. This fit perfectly for a scenario that happened between us. We were talking about going to Norway. We are from Florida. I saw that the average temp in May was 61 degrees. I said, "That's freezing." He responded, "That's not cold." My internal response was Jesus, do you have to argue with everything I say? BTW, I've started to say that out loud and he says he's not arguing with me. So in this situation I retorted something along the lines of, "Oh, really? At exactly what temperature does it officially become cold?" Granted, I was technically wrong. 61 degrees is not freezing, but just let me say things without having to correct it.

    Thanks for your feedback. It was helpful.
     
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  13. Fridgemagnetman

    Fridgemagnetman I only have one V.I.P Member

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    I'm not arguing either. My wife often sees it as such.

    We're both kind of just making statements :)

    I can also imagine making that statement, but I dont see it as correcting..

    Perhaps a knee jerk literal interpretation.

    I realise I'm blind to it a lot more than I thought.

    It's a fundamental difference in viewpoints, I guess.
     
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  14. Mia

    Mia Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    If it feels domineering to you, that's what matters. That is what needs to be made clear to the other person, although I'm certain you know that. Even if they don't perceive it as such.

    Aspies question emotion, as if they were arguments that were logical or illogical.

    Think that you need to make it clear, that negating something as a 'knee-jerk' response to something that you've said is counterproductive, even destructive, without more information. Without the other person giving it much thought.

    The back and forth of argument or discussion, often leads to a quick negative reaction. As a way to end it or stall it, so the other person has more time to consider their response. Don't take the first response as the only one, given time, it will change with more consideration.
     
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  15. sisselcakes

    sisselcakes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Thanks, Mia. Seems you've had a lot of experience with the whole communication and human dynamics thing.
     
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  16. paloftoon

    paloftoon Well-Known Member

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    You and him can always agree to disagree and to avoid politics as a topic if you two can't be civil enough to be able to express your own opinions fully. He should be willing to listen to you on some things, but one of those things doesn't have to be politics if he gets so burned up about what's logical to him. Honestly, in life, nothing is 100% logical. lol.
     
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  17. Zoie

    Zoie New Member

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    This thread is a little disheartening to read.

    Growing up, I was constantly punished for "arguing" with my parents and teachers.

    My step dad used to tell me, "You're really messed up. You just HAVE to be right, don't you? You just HAVE to disagree with every single thing that's said, right? That's how you feel in control. You can't STAND it when you're not right!"

    This always felt like such a slap in the face. I don't have a need to be right. I don't assert myself to" feel in control ". It's NOT an emotional issue, like it seems to be for him and others.

    I'm super literal, and when someone says something to me that doesn't make sense, I respond accordingly. I tell them what I heard doesn't make sense and I offer clarifying information.

    This is interpreted as an attack to many neurotypical people who are too emotionally shallow to even comprehend their own stupid need for control in social situations. Everything to them is a pissing contest, and they just have to take things too far. They get angry and loud, they get defensive. They don't see me or my actions for what they are... Anyway, clearly I've got some unresolved issues related to trauma.

    But I don't think I have a need to be right. In fact, I am extremely eager to communicate clearly with the world. I want to learn,and I want to grow. It's disappointing to grow up and realize that others would rather cling to their societal constructed beliefs and schemas, rather than seize any new piece of data and run with it the way I do.
     
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  18. Sid Delicious

    Sid Delicious Balloon animal safety control

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    "He said he gets very frustrated because he doesn’t see the logic of my beliefs and he gets annoyed with illogical ideas. I’m passionate about my beliefs - not the best mix."

    I have to ask... how can you be passionate about your ideas if they make no logical sense?
    (ducks behind the sofa)

    Having said that, I do understand where you are both coming from. I grew up in a big family that is a mix of aspie/non-aspies and heard the exact same miscommunication over and over again. To someone with autism/aspergers, facts and truth are the most important thing. To someone without autism/aspergers, emotions and feelings tend to be the most important thing. It's a generalisation, but seems to hold true for everyone I know (including myself).

    As a child, I would get really upset as I couldn't understand why everyone kept lying to me all the time. I would take it very badly if someone told me anything and I later found out they were joking, being sarcastic, exaggerating, saying something for attention/emotion/entertainment, or simply had changed their mind and forgot to tell me. I felt as though either everyone around me was an idiot or that I simply couldn't trust anyone not to make stuff up. I was very literal.

    I think many of us develop more compassion for the way non-aspies think as we get older and learn to talk their language sometimes. However, not all aspies manage this (or ever get the opportunity to learn) or we simply get tired of speaking a foreign language all day long and not having others try to do the same in return. In effect, I have to make myself either lie or accept lies when communicating with non-aspies. Which I am usually happy to do, as they are generally people I care about and want to make happy (family, etc) or it is in my best interest to do so (colleagues, etc). I basically spend all day nodding and smiling when people tell me black is actually white or something that is 1m long is actually 100m long. I know it's wrong, my brain is screaming at me that it's wrong, but I've learned to just react the 'right' way. However, I couldn't do this with a partner. It's incredibly tiring and I need to be able to switch off when I get home and just be (my version of) normal. It isn't a control thing. I simply get worn out having to put on an act.

    I imagine your partner is the same and regardless of how much he cares about you, he can't speak your language 24/7. It gets exhausting, even after years of practice. Sometimes you just want someone to say 'yes, actually white is white and 1m is not the same as 100m' or it starts to feel as if you are going mad. If he's tired or stressed already, then I suspect he reacts instinctively before he has time to stop and remind himself to translate his thoughts into your 'language'. I would say try to meet him half way. I'm fairly certain (based on my own experience and that of aspie/non-aspie couples in my own family) that he doesn't actively enjoy upsetting you, but just gets exhausted/frustrated sometimes of having to be constantly bilingual.

    For his part, I would suggest he learns a better method of 'correcting' your words. Bluntness rarely works as people will get defensive and simply back up their point of view with even more emotion, which isn't conducive to debate. So it's in his interest to find a more appropriate (to you) way of exploring what you think (or simply avoid the subject entirely if that is impossible for the both of you). I used to have huge arguments with other people as a child until I learned better ways to point out the lack of logic in what they were saying.

    Either way, I hope you find a solution that the both of you are happy with.
     
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  19. Bolletje

    Bolletje Potato chip wizard V.I.P Member

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    Talking with my boyfriend is tricky sometimes. I’m a certified Aspie, I think he might be somewhere on the spectrum as well. Boyfriend is incredibly curious and philosophical. He asks questions about everything. And I mean everything. Even when I simply want to inform him of something, he’ll have a question, advice or opinion on the matter.
    On the one hand, it’s great that he listens to me, tries to think along with me and is interested in what I have to say.
    On the other hand, sometimes I just want him to listen without commenting. I feel patronized sometimes, although I know it’s not his intent and I know that’s my problem, not his.

    I can relate to some of the stubbornness you describe. For instance, I refuse to argue about a subject when I know for a fact that I am right. People can’t change my mind when I know I’m right (note: this only applies to facts with hard proof, not to opinions). There are many subjects I simply refuse to discuss for that reason.
    I also refuse to discuss politics or religion, as that’s usually just food for arguments as well. I usually let people rant and refrain from sharing my opinion - many people are so engrossed by their own monologue they don’t even notice how I don’t touch the subject.
     
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  20. Sid Delicious

    Sid Delicious Balloon animal safety control

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    "But I don't think I have a need to be right. In fact, I am extremely eager to communicate clearly with the world. I want to learn,and I want to grow. It's disappointing to grow up and realize that others would rather cling to their societal constructed beliefs and schemas, rather than seize any new piece of data and run with it the way I do."

    I think that's a good way of putting it. I need to be right, but not personally right. I am happy for someone to correct me with new information that I wasn't aware of, and I will change my position to be right based on that. For example, the way that I 'argue' with my cousin (who is also on the autistic spectrum) is very different to how I would have to argue with a non-aspie. My cousin and I will state our opinions and if we differ, we will then share the data/research we've used to reach that conclusion. Neither of us gets defensive over it. Usually, one of us will lack some bit of information that the other has and that person will be pleased that they have additional information, even if it means changing their opinion. We don't need to shout or get emotional and neither feels defensive or stupid afterwards. It is a positive change as far as the both of us are concerned.

    I would be slightly irritated if my cousin knew that I was incorrect due to lack of information on something and refused to tell me why. We have never 'agreed to disagree'. Occasionally we will simply leave the discussion with the agreement that we will send the other person links to research or data if there is so much of it that we don't have time to go through it in person. Or, in a couple of instances, we have disagreed on a topic due to different end goals that are entirely subjective due to our personal situations (with the acknowledgement that 'if I were in your position, I would do the same as you'). It's very rare that I can have a debate with a non-aspie in the same format.
     
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