Being too honest

[RainbowStar]

Going on the assumption I do, in fact, have Aspergers (at this point I'm 99% sure I do), I'm wondering if others here have a reputation for being "brutally" honest. I don't mean to be, but I have a VERY hard time lying, even white lies to make people feel better. Plus, I see no reason to - if something is undeniably true, what's the point of pretending it's not? And I have a hard time judging what situations call for honesty and which ones I'm expected to just make people feel good. So I'm curious if this is a thing in the autistic spectrum. Some examples:

When people say "I'm fat." I can't bring myself to do what others tend to do, which is outright deny it: "No, you're not fat!" Well, the fact is, most of the time, the person in question IS fat. I won't point it out, but if it's the truth and they said it, I'll usually just shrug - yeah, you are, whatever. That apparently comes across as rude or even cruel to others.

Besides that very specific scenario (which happens fairly often), what tends to happen is that a thought will occur to me about someone, I'll say it out loud, and others interpret it as kind of mean (and usually snarky or a "burn.") That's never how I intend it; I either mean to be helpful or simply can't figure out why I shouldn't say it.

So...anyone else have that "brutally honest" reputation unintentionally?

 

[Suzanne]

Hi there

I am an unofficial aspie, and have got in trouble a few times for being brutely honest. Like you, if someone was to complain they are fat etc, I have to almost put a stopper in my mouth to stop me agreeing. But I am also an "unprofessional" psychologist and so, can actually detect the person is saying it, because they want not affirmation but kindness; because of the tone of their voice, but in truth, when I was your age and younger, I had no idea the tone of voice and had a sense of: I need to be careful, because I upset people and there lays the issue with not understanding emotions. It is: I feel uncomfortable when I talk etc and only as a much older person, and learning about aspergers, has taught me to have the "ahhh ok" moment; so it was because each time I opened my mouth, I would offend.

I was encouraged to have some rose ( wine) to drink, some year's ago now. No longer like alcohol. There was a point, at the table, where others were, that I recognised I was rather tipsy. Eventually, it was decided my husband and I would go home, but before that, the lady of the house, was eager to show us what they were selling off and so, was pointing to several items and I kind of did a double take, when I saw her curtains. They were a murky light brown, with huge brown spots and I said: I am sure you will be happy to sell those awful curtains soon? Well, all hell broke loose. She was AGHAST with me and then the words that rang like an intrusive bell in my head: I MADE THOSE CURTAINS. Oh, dear, I was MORTIFIED. Now, had I been less tipsy, I would have just THOUGHT they look awful; but the aspieness just spilled forth. She went into a rant of how rude and insulting I was and that if I am not careful, I will make enemies and not friends. Stupid me, tried to explain, but really, what could I say? I had said what I said and so, there was no getting around it and she just said: I think you ought to go!

I was in tears ( again drink was probably the culprit) and my husband actually went back and explained that it was drink orientated and it was not so soon, after that she seemed ok with me; but from that moment, I felt ill at ease in her company.

I live my life constantly looking over my shoulder, so to speak, in case I cause offence. I am never the first to say or do something, in case I get the disapproving finger at me, so I am lead by example.

 

[Progster]

Yes, that situation is really tricky, because I don't want to say something that will hurt the other person's feelings, but I don't want to lie either, so usually, I don't say anything, or I might say, "Yes, you are sligthly overweight."

Also, it is often the case that a person is seeking validation, advice or help for something, in which case it isn't helpful to deny what they are saying. If I talk to a person about my having ASD, it isn't helpful to me for them to deny it, tell me that I can't possibley have it, because it seek validation and help. It can be difficult to know whether a person is seeking validation or not.

Some people don't appreciate white lies, some people value honesty. Personally, I don't like it when someone tells a white lie just to protect my feelings, I much prefer honesty. If I tell someone about a problem like being overweight, it is because I need help with that, and telling a lie to protect my feelings is not helpful, it's patronising and denying me my feelings, or not taking me seriously. Politeness and helpfulness are two different things which often don't coincide.

It's possible to be polite without compromising one's integrity; you can tell them that yes, they are slightly overweight - avoid using negative emotionally loaded words such as 'fat' which come across as judgemental or insulting, instead use clinical or neutral words, which aren't usually offensive. Or just say nothing, don't react to it at all, or something like "Yes, I could do with losing a couple of pounds myself" to show empathy.

 

[SusanLR]

Being literally honest and saying what you think is listed
as an aspie thing.
I don't like to tell white lies either, nor do I like to receive them. If something is the truth, why not say it?
I know there is a finesse as to how you say it, such as the response to being fat. I try to make it sound as though
I feel the same about myself, that I could lose a few pounds but don't really know what to do. Which is true.
If it is about something that I know the truth would really sound offensive I try to say nothing.
But, sometimes without thinking I realise I just said something that was true, but didn't sound nice and could be interpreted by some as crude.
I'm just a literal and say it like it is type of person unless
I stop to think before I speak.
And have read it is aspie.
As a kid I was terrible. Never stopped to think it would alienate other kids.
Such as the example of being invited to a "tea party" and when I got there a bunch of girls were all dressed up and pretending to talk to and hold cups of tea up to dolls around the table.
I found that was illogical, didn't understand it and said so. Yeah, that went over real well.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

When people say "I'm fat." I can't bring myself to do what others tend to do, which is outright deny it: "No, you're not fat!"

Only between the ears.

got there a bunch of girls were all dressed up and pretending to talk to and hold cups of tea up to dolls around the table.

What's wrong with you? Make a proper cup of tea. The dolls aren't real. Are you mad?

 

[Catana]

I mostly try to just keep my mouth shut. It saves a lot of trouble.

 

[Juliettaa]

I'm brutally honest. I cannot be any other way. I also detest liars.

I have taught myself to say things in response to questions where one is supposed to lie in response:

'do you want me to answer that' or 'are you asking me a question or just making a statement' or 'do you really want my opinion'

That way, I can't be accused of being an @sshole as they asked me for an answer/my opinion.

Better still is this:

Them - 'I look fat in this dress'
Me - silence


Life is a minefield. Lots of times it blows up in my face. But hey ho, I'm me and if they don't like it - goodbye

 

[Otenba]

I don't understand what it is, but I know others do have a problem with how I talk. It has lead to others engaging with me to a minimal level, especially at work. I do not speak from a place of spite but people see it like I do because I can speak bluntly. I have been called tactless which I think is a fair thing to say about me. I think some of the trouble is people don't like it when others bring to light things they're choosing to ignore or selectively see. Can harm the appearances/reputation they are trying to keep up too, which suggests a lot of it is insecurity too.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Them - 'I'm look fat in this dress'

Me : Did you steal it from a bum?

 

[WereBear]

if something is undeniably true, what's the point of pretending it's not?

Exactly! And by not grappling with reality, people are still bothered by their physical condition, their job situation, their love life, etc... Nothing gets better unless you make it better.

But I have learned to "CODE MORE" and figure out when they want reassurance and compassion instead of advice or opinion. More than likely, NTs are not asking for an exchange of information to solve a problem. That just isn't what they do! Most of the time, they want to be supported and agreed with. So I look "under the question" and give them what they are asking for without them coming out and asking for it.

I agree this is sloppy and dysfunctional, but it is how they roll. How do they do it? As far as I can tell, they spend their entire school years learning how to do this stuff.

And we did not.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Exactly! And by not grappling with reality, people are still bothered by their physical condition, their job situation, their love life, etc... Nothing gets better unless you make it better.

But I have learned to "CODE MORE" and figure out when they want reassurance and compassion instead of advice or opinion. More than likely, NTs are not asking for an exchange of information to solve a problem. That just isn't what they do! Most of the time, they want to be supported and agreed with. So I look "under the question" and give them what they are asking for without them coming out and asking for it.

I agree this is sloppy and dysfunctional, but it is how they roll. How do they do it? As far as I can tell, they spend their entire school years learning how to do this stuff.

And we did not.

Was reading about virtue signalling. Base on signal theory.
Signalling theory - Wikipedia

 

[WereBear]

Was reading about virtue signalling. Base on signal theory.
Signalling theory - Wikipedia

Excellent point.

 

[SunnyDay16]

Exactly! And by not grappling with reality, people are still bothered by their physical condition, their job situation, their love life, etc... Nothing gets better unless you make it better.

But I have learned to "CODE MORE" and figure out when they want reassurance and compassion instead of advice or opinion. More than likely, NTs are not asking for an exchange of information to solve a problem. That just isn't what they do! Most of the time, they want to be supported and agreed with. So I look "under the question" and give them what they are asking for without them coming out and asking for it.

I agree this is sloppy and dysfunctional, but it is how they roll. How do they do it? As far as I can tell, they spend their entire school years learning how to do this stuff.

And we did not.

Yeah it isn't worth trying to give advice to those who don't actually want it, but want validation instead. I don't always want advice when I complain about something either, more just a listening ear, so it's not entirely an NT thing. I've realized that even people who ask for "honest advice" only welcome the advice that they agree with, not the advice that they necessarily need, so even then I don't always give my honest opinions. I guess it just depends on the person. Some people are the type that want everyone to be on their side and agree with them, while others are more likely to consider other perspectives.

 

[Otenba]

Yeah it isn't worth trying to give advice to those who don't actually want it, but want validation instead. I don't always want advice when I complain about something either, more just a listening ear, so it's not entirely an NT thing. I've realized that even people who ask for "honest advice" only welcome the advice that they agree with, not the advice that they necessarily need, so even then I don't always give my honest opinions. I guess it just depends on the person. Some people are the type that want everyone to be on their side and agree with them, while others are more likely to consider other perspectives.

This makes total sense to me but never occurred to me to look at it like that. Well said. I will try to remember this. I'm now realising that there are a lot of people around me that are more looking for validation than anything else - especially the regular moaners that seem to have no self-awareness.

 

[Gritches]

Hello, what you mention is a lack of tact, to be brutally honest. There's a difference between honesty and rudeness, and an act of rudeness can be overt or a result of inaction, or the incorrect action. It's choosing to navigate the verbal minefield to choose to be tactful, so it's not easy by any means.

 

[55853]

It's not either-or. I never lie to people, but nobody considers me brutally honest (as far as I'm aware, at least) - and it's because I try my best not to be brutal. I don't want to hurt others and it really helps you to work with people if you can be honest in a way they'll be receptive to, so I try my best to be tactful. Working with people or having social relationships is more than likely going to be part of your life in some form, so if you can work out how to reword your comments in a less brutal way, it'll be more effective to your original intention.

You can be honest and make people feel good at the same time. My poor ability to talk has left me purely listening to people my whole life. Listening to people gives you a chance to understand why they're saying something to you. If you can understand why they're saying what they're saying, it's much easier to give them a non-brutal honest reply.

 

[Mr Allen]

I'm definitely too honest, like every time I fill in an application form, either paper or online, for a job, I declare that I'm a deaf, disabled Aspie, consequently I never get the job! So much for "Equal Opportunities".

 

[Sozdatelniza]

Sometimes I lie for several reasons.
Perhaps it's not lying but simple withholding because I'm not a good liar.
Anyhoo, this is a stressful action. I don'the understand people who lie just for fun. I try to lie when I understand how dangerous it is to tell truth.
I've become more aware not to tell too much truth. Sometimes it works out and sometimes not.
I also get a feeling I withhold too much I recently try to be as honest as possible.
Because I understood withholding ruins relationships and it makes me unecessarily feel guilty.

 

[paloftoon]

I can relate to this. I once had an aspie as a good friend a long time ago. He had an obsessive crush on me, and asked me one day in private why I wasn't attracted to him. I told him that he was too autistic for me in ways that I had a hard time dealing with outside of a friendship and that he was ugly. It was too honest for him. He knew I wasn't coming from a mean place saying it.

However, he still got raging mad and got me kicked out of an aspie social group as a result. Yeah, it got personal in places it wasn't supposed to. Another person got involved and implied that I had to give myself up romantically to him to make it all better,

I have moved on from that whole mess now thank god!

 

[Pondering]

To me, brute unfiltered honesty is kindness. I feel cheated when someone holds back the truth when it is owed. Truth is absolute and unbiased. However, the truth can be rather harsh to some. It's not the truth itself that bothers, it's the delivery. Tact, tact, tact - it's the art of telling the truth in such a way that is bearable to the receiver without compromising the truth. Tact is so necessary, although it really depends on who you're talking to and how unfiltered they like their honesty; some people like their honesty totally unfiltered. As for those who don't - well, nobody likes to get whacked upside the head with a crowbar. That's what facing harsh truths can be like to some - it's painful. So, as deliverers of honesty, it's best to lighten the blow. Don't use a metaphorical crowbar. Use a metaphorical feather. (Example: Person A: Does this shirt make me look fat. Person B: That shirt may not be a good fit for you. But you would look even better if it were in this color or this pattern.)

The phrase, 'I save lives' sounds better than 'I prevent deaths'. It's just human psychology.

Aim the delivery in a way that lets the person know that you are saying it in their interest, putting their well-being first, and that you are not saying it in the name of being mean. I know, it's not easy. It does not come naturally to me at all. If I can't think of a good answer on the spot, I'll either not voice my opinion, change the subject, or be somewhat vague. Regarding remark . . . those are entirely socially optional, so in that case (especially if I'm not sure how my words will affect someone), I'll keep my mouth shut but never lie.