Are we blind?

[Cogs Of My Cranium]

i know this is a tad dramatic but if something like 80% (probably more) of communication is non verbal and we can't see it or have a great deal of trouble seeing it, is it fair to say we are visually impaired? Or is it that we do see it but have trouble processing it? It would be cool if someone can explain the neurological aspect of it. I wonder where one draws the line between the eyes and the mental processing what the eyes see. Then of course there's all the other senses too. Sorry thinking as I write here lol. I'm just wondering

 

[Flinty]

It's less blindness and more of a functional illiteracy to me. We can see the non-verbal communication but have no idea what it means; similar to a two-year-old that can see the letters in Green Eggs and Ham but can't assign a meaning to them.

 

[NovaScotia Aspie]

One of the reasons most Aspies are pretty bad at flirting.

 

[FreeDiver]

It's less blindness and more of a functional illiteracy to me. We can see the non-verbal communication but have no idea what it means; similar to a two-year-old that can see the letters in Green Eggs and Ham but can't assign a meaning to them.

In other words. We don't know the language. But sometimes, I have to wonder why we never learn it anyway. Or do we? For example. I know what a smile is and if I see it on someones face, I know that they are happy. But it doesn't make me feel happy to see a smile on someones face. I also can't fake a smile worth crap, but I have no problem smiling, if I genuinely feel happy inside.

 

[Beverly]

most of us can learn what non verbal cues mean but, we have to learn each one just as we learn each letter of the alphabet and, even knowing them, it's like a five year old that barely knows the alphabet trying to remember it - we basically know but, we still miss letters (miss cues because we are focused on the wrong body part of the speaker) and, get things in the wrong order a bit (Mistake a wry smile for a grimace of mild disgust or, use the wrong no verbal cue ourselves.)

I know I and every Aspie I know is horrible at taking hints - forget it, we just don't take hints. "You know, a milkshake would taste good about now." Does not equate to "Will you make a milkshake for me now?" to us, it simply means the speaker thinks a milkshake would taste good now, not that they actually want a milkshake now.

I fail at verbal hints and, the world really expects me to "get" non verbal hints?!?!? Please, where is my inner diva, I'm not putting up with that crap from them. LOL I don't either, I tell them flat out I do not take hints, I don't like hints, just say it outright. Of course now, I can pull it off and be thought a diva that's just getting a kick out of making people do things and say things as I wish for the heck of it. Wasn't always that way and, I had a lot of problems for my inability to read non verbal cues or take hints.

I actually did learn to read non verbal cues fairly well, after about 20 years of learning them all and, learning how to watch for multiple cues simultaneously. I still fail at verbal hints, miserably so but, oh well I can't be totally perfect. (Far from it actually.)

 

[Mia]

Many Females on the spectrum are able to recognize facial clues. Maybe because Aspie females tend to be force socialized with other females early on in their lives. So it is possible to a certain extent for males as well, know that my spouse can recognize many different emotions although because of his job he really had to work at it. Guess that it is possible if necessary.

 

[watersprite]

I asked the neuropsych who diagnosed me about this. He said in my case (in his opinion) my inability to read other people is due to my brain being very busy processing other information, my having not been socialized as Mia mentioned, (I successfully resisted all attempts by my large family to be "part of things"), and mostly the non verbal learning disorder. He said there's therapeutic training that'd help me to recognize more people-information. I didn't do the therapy training because I wanted to deliberate for a while first.

I try to remember to ask my loved ones how they are feeling. I recognize smile = pleased, and frown = upset, but only if the person is close to me. With strangers I cannot tell at all if they are being fake or real.

 

[FreeDiver]

I asked the neuropsych who diagnosed me about this. He said in my case (in his opinion) my inability to read other people is due to my brain being very busy processing other information.

Interesting that your neuropsych brought that up. I too have a very busy brain and sometime it just get a little too much for me. One of the ways I cope with a busy brain is to hold my breath for a long time. This lowers my blood/oxygen levels and forces my brain to slow down and allow me to relax more.

I try to remember to ask my loved ones how they are feeling. I recognize smile = pleased, and frown = upset, but only if the person is close to me. With strangers I cannot tell at all if they are being fake or real.

As I was saying in my earlier post. I don't think that identifying a facal expression is all there is to it. I think you are supposed to actually feel the emotion that the other person is expressing with their face.

 

[unsurewhattoname]

Are people deaf for not being able to understand a foreign language they've never been taught? I don't think so, so I don't think we are blind either.

 

[unsurewhattoname]

Many Females on the spectrum are able to recognize facial clues. Maybe because Aspie females tend to be force socialized with other females early on in their lives. So it is possible to a certain extent for males as well, know that my spouse can recognize many different emotions although because of his job he really had to work at it. Guess that it is possible if necessary.

Guess I'm not female then. I was forced my entire life, but I still have asperger's meaning I am impaired in verbal and nonverbal communication. Owning a vagina unfortunately didn't mean my asperger's went away just by being around NTs, for the same reason they didn't get my asperger's.

 

[Progster]

In other words. We don't know the language. But sometimes, I have to wonder why we never learn it anyway. Or do we? For example. I know what a smile is and if I see it on someones face, I know that they are happy. But it doesn't make me feel happy to see a smile on someones face. I also can't fake a smile worth crap, but I have no problem smiling, if I genuinely feel happy inside.

Same here. I think we are supposed to feel the emotions that others have, and if we don't we are supposed to fake them, but I can do neither well. If I'm with people I can see them talking, changing facial expressions and tone of voice, they are obviously conveying emotions and messages to each other, but I get no emotion or message conveyed to me through this. I understand when I see people laughing and smiling that they are happy, but it doesn't automatically make me feel happy, usually because I haven't picked up on whatever they are smiling at. I don't know why this is, perhaps I'm not able to process the information, or simply don't recognise all the cues. This is why I feel separate and disconnected from others - I don't connect emotionally.

 

[watersprite]

Interesting that your neuropsych brought that up. I too have a very busy brain and sometime it just get a little too much for me. One of the ways I cope with a busy brain is to hold my breath for a long time. This lowers my blood/oxygen levels and forces my brain to slow down and allow me to relax more.



As I was saying in my earlier post. I don't think that identifying a facal expression is all there is to it. I think you are supposed to actually feel the emotion that the other person is expressing with their face.

Yes, while I know I'm not with others emotionally, it helps to know even a small amount of what's going on, intellectually. I still always will be me, missing out on the various packets of information others perceive. But I like being me, so it's okay.
By the way, thanks for the tip about holding your breath. I'm going to try that.
I find exercise to be a great way to slow my mind down, clear and clarify what are otherwise confusing or just way too many thoughts.

 

[Mia]

One of the ways I cope with a busy brain is to hold my breath for a long time.

Thanks for the tip FreeDiver Tried it last night when I could not sleep and it really helped. Reminds me of childhood when I used to do it as a game with siblings, until we became dizzy from holding our breath

 

[On the Inside]

I think the over active mind issue is the main problem for me. When I'm around others, whether or not I'm talking with them, I am scanning around, looking for something to anchor my eyes so I can start to focus. Usually some inanimate object near where the person to whom I'm talking. So, not "blind" but definitely "attention elsewhere".

However, I am also mystified by what these motions and gestures mean, and I often misread or over-read those that I do catch.

It wasn't until I started to suspect Aspergers and looked up the symptoms and traits that I even knew there was this deep, meaningful language being expressed through the body.

I can see some body language used by actors in plays and movies, but that seems so over the top, no one behaves that way in real life, or so I thought.

 

[ancusmitis]

I know I and every Aspie I know is horrible at taking hints - forget it, we just don't take hints. "You know, a milkshake would taste good about now." Does not equate to "Will you make a milkshake for me now?" to us, it simply means the speaker thinks a milkshake would taste good now, not that they actually want a milkshake now.

Does anyone else find that means of asking for something rude? Depending on the tone of voice, it could be many different degrees of nasty.

On the other hand, someone really might just be idly musing, unless I'm misinterpreting certain situations in fictional works (settings where a milkshake would actually be impossible--played for laughs?)

 

[Beverly]

Does anyone else find that means of asking for something rude? Depending on the tone of voice, it could be many different degrees of nasty.

On the other hand, someone really might just be idly musing, unless I'm misinterpreting certain situations in fictional works (settings where a milkshake would actually be impossible--played for laughs?)

I don't find making a rather generic, non request comment about something rude. What I do find rude is people who make such comments, then, less than five minutes later, get upset with me because I did not get them what they commented about. Of course I didn't , they made a statement about the item, not a request for the item. Why would I get them something they did not ask for? Why do they get upset with me for not doing what the asked when they never asked a single question at all, period?

Yes, I know such comments are hints to get them what they comment about but, I refuse to pander to such ambiguity. People need to learn to simply ask for what they want and stop the proverbial beating around the bush crap. If my refusal to pander to it form anyone changes just one person, then all of them being upset with me will be worth it when they put me in my grave.

I truly believe this world would suffer a lot fewer misunderstandings if people would simply speak plainly and directly and, not try to cloak their intentions behind niceties that only serve to confuse any given situation. We've become a society so paranoid of offending or inconveniencing anyone that we cannot speak clearly and, that needs to change.

 

[Ettina]

To take the literacy example further...

Imagine if for most people, reading was hard-wired. As soon as a baby's vision matured enough to actually see text clearly, they knew which letters went with which sounds. So they would learn to read at the exact same rate that they learnt to understand speech. By the time they're around 7-12 months, they can understand text referring to common familiar objects, such as getting excited when they see a sign saying 'ball pit' because they know what the word 'ball' means. By the time they're 1 or 2, they can follow written commands. As soon as their little hands can control a pencil, they're writing recognizable words, all the same words they have in their vocabulary.

Now imagine a kid born without that ability, who has to learn to read and write separately from learning to speak and understand speech. It would probably take until age 3 or 4 before this kid even realizes written text is meaningful at all. By that point, other kids are already reading early readers independently. In school, they probably wouldn't offer basic reading instruction - instead, they'd just hand out textbooks and the kids would read them easily. It would be like putting a kindergartener in third grade. They'd be behind right from the start.

And since access to reading means access to information, this kid would be falling behind in a lot of other areas too. How much could a preschooler teach themselves if they could read as well as they understood speech, and had good access to books? During the 4-5 year old 'asking why constantly' stage, these kids would be reading pretty much nonstop in order to get their answers about those questions. They'd probably have an immense fund of knowledge before they enter school.

At some point, this kid probably would learn to read, or be taught how in some special education program. But by then, the kid would be so far behind already, and would probably never catch up completely. Even once reading got so good that it was basically automatic, this kid would still be missing much of the fund of knowledge others had accumulated. Vocabulary would probably lag behind, too, because exposure to unfamiliar written words in context can add to a person's vocabulary.

About the only way that this kid could avoid falling so far behind would be if someone taught him or her to read as a toddler. Which is doable, but the child would still probably be behind in reading compared to other kids for several years at least. But once they caught up in reading, they could probably catch up in other areas before long.