You're different, not disabled

[TheNomadicAspie]

By no means am I saying that being Autistic is a matter of preference. I am saying that the obstacles Autistic people struggle with are self-perpetuating. Being unable to look at yourself objectively causes an inability to know what what goals you should set for yourself, which causes universal frustration at attempts to do anything. It's necessary to set goals for yourself before you can accomplish them, but many neurodiverse people are unable to do so, or may set personal goals that would not make them happy at the direction of neurotypical family and friends. Pressure from neurotypical people to pursue a particular path in life which they may not want for themselves causes self-resentment, which I see often in stories on this forum.

I couldn't DISAGREE with your last paragraph more. Overestimating yourself isn't harmful at all, what's harmful is the belief that everything in life can be achieved without first failing. I'm addicted to failure. I try and fail to do things all the time. I can't count the number of personal or business goals I've set for myself and abandoned for one reason or another. In the process though I've discovered countless areas in life that I am naturally adept at (Programming, mnemonic memorization, piano, etc), and developed lots of skills I never though I would be able to (Professional magician, opened a popular lounge in Vegas, public speaking in front of large crowds).

My view on Autism isn't based solely on my own experiences. I have at least a dozen close friends on the spectrum, some more high functioning than others. There's nothing wrong with setting even impossibly high expectations for yourself, as long as you don't associate your ability to immediately accomplish your goals with your sense of self-worth. Neurodiverse people aren't good at handling failure. We like to know how to do everything before we try it, and we hate when things don't go according to plan.

Trying and failing is the only way for ANYONE to succeed in life, whether you're neurotypical or neurodiverse. The problem isn't overestimating yourself, the problem is being afraid to try.

 

[the_tortoise]

Overestimating yourself isn't harmful at all,

It can be when you take it too far. Maybe not for you, but it can be for others.

I've tried and failed at lots of things, too. And I've pushed through years of failure to eventually succeed -- after many years of exhausting, maddening effort.

There is a difference between ordinary trying and failing and setting yourself up for failure. If you know something isn't possible and refuse to accept it, it can be a bad thing. Like it or not, the reality is that sometimes autistic people have limitations that cannot be overcome by simply trying hard enough or for long enough, or by simply believing in yourself.

Accepting limitations does not mean you lack self-esteem or strength or determination, it doesn't mean you aren't willing to try and fail at things -- sometimes it's just being realistic.

You act as though failure never has consequences other than maybe being disappointed or upset -- it often does, and sometimes the consequences are catastrophic. (Actually catastrophic, not just someone overreacting.)

If your autism is not a disability, good for you, that's awesome (really, it is).

I don't know why you're so convinced you know other people and their lives and minds so well that you feel you can define what their problems are and aren't.

I don't presume to tell you what your problems are and aren't, to insist that your autism is a disability just because I see my autism as a disability, because I respect your self-knowledge and personal experience -- I respect that you know your life and situation better than I ever could. Can you please try to extend the same respect to me?

 

[TheNomadicAspie]

I don't know why you're so convinced you know other people and their lives and minds so well that you feel you can define what their problems are and aren't.

I don't know the lives of others so well that I can define their problems, I know about psychology (I majored in it before getting bored of college). I know that avoiding anything that makes you uncomfortable will get in the way of self-development. I also know that neurodiverse people tend to think of the worst case scenario, and then talk themselves out of trying anything new because of the irrational fear that the world will end (Metaphorically) if they do. Which is exactly what you're doing.

Saying that the consequences of trying to break out of your comfort zone may be catastrophic is so irrational. Yes if you have no experience talking to people and then you decide to get a job as an Air Traffic Controller, you may be unable to communicate properly and cause hundreds of people to die. That's a situation where you would be right, and overestimating yourself could lead to catastrophic situations.

That's not the same thing as learning to get used to breaking a daily routine, developing public speaking skills, or going someplace new despite an aversion to change. As I said, learning what you want and don't want out of life is a skill that takes practice to develop. Once you take the small steps to step out of your comfort zone, you'll know what you are and are not capable of, which will help you avoid accidentally taking a job as an Air Traffic Controller and causing a catastrophic event.

 

[the_tortoise]

I know that avoiding anything that makes you uncomfortable will get in the way of self-development. I also know that neurodiverse people tend to think of the worst case scenario, and then talk themselves out of trying anything new because of the irrational fear that the world will end (Metaphorically) if they do. Which is exactly what you're doing.

No, it isn't what I'm doing. (And my psychologist would back me up on that, if we're going to start throwing expertise into this debate to validate perspectives -- as would others who know me well but don't have any expert knowledge of psychology or autism, specifically.)

Again there is a difference between breaking out of your comfort zone or trying and failing, and refusing to accept limitations and thereby setting yourself up for failure. I'm not talking about avoiding possible/theoretical failure without even trying, I'm talking about avoiding certain or extremely likely failure that any reasonable person could predict based upon extensive past experience, but which a person who cannot accept their limitations might refuse to even consider despite all that past experience.

Despite what you seem to believe, I do know the difference between a catastrophe and something unpleasant but otherwise harmless or trivial -- and I know there is a lot in between those two extremes.

Think what you like, though -- your mind seems quite closed off on this issue, everything I say is interpreted to fit your assumptions about me (and others), and I don't feel like beating my head against a metaphorical wall anymore so I'm done arguing with you.

 

[Autistamatic]

I've stayed out of this thread up to now. I see merit in both sides of the debate, but I have to agree with many of the comments made on the "disability" side of the discussion.

Whether an autistic person chooses to regard themselves as disabled or diverse is a personal choice. We all have differences and difficulties from a particular set of criteria. Some will fill more criteria than others and some will fit very few. We all are different and handle our deviations from the accepted norm in our own ways. There is no "right way" to do it, nor is there a right or wrong in whether we choose to regard ourselves as diverse or disabled.

I think we all are agreed that with greater awareness comes greater understanding. Getting the message out to the wider world that our differences are nothing to be afraid of and are not an acceptable excuse for discrimination is vital if we are to lead easier lives. This will in turn have a knock on effect on many of the co-morbid mental health difficulties experienced by so many of us. Anxiety and depression may be less frequent or less severe for many of us without the pressure to conform that comes from intolerance and ignorance.

If someone regards their autism as a disability it's nobody else's place to tell them not to, however they will still benefit as much as those who identify as neurodiverse from the effort being made to increase knowledge and inclusion. Nobody knows if they will regard themselves as not being disabled when we reach that point except for them. It's certain there will have to be significant change before it's even a possibility.

Regardless of what designation or interpretation we choose to apply to ourselves, we are all living in intolerant societies with little understanding of our differences. The same is true of all people with physical/visible disabilities. We are on the same side of a common cause - to tame our hostile world for the good of all.

There are certainly parallels with the civil rights movement and LGBTQ+ movement, but there are equal links with the ongoing fight for people with Downs, CP, MS, ME, EDS and more to get better treatment and accomodation.

I regularly see certain prominent people in the ND community making statements like "There is no such thing as high or low functioning autism" and it always angers so many people, with good reason. Even if you take the former definition of "low functioning" being an IQ below 70, it's difficult to argue that those people don't find it more difficult to overcome the difficulties their autism presents them with. Such sweeping statements sow division in a community that would do better to unite to fight the common cause.

We should also keep in mind that less than 1 in 5 autistic people of ALL types are in gainful employment. Through no fault of their own, a huge proportion of our community rely on disability benefits to survive. The governments of many countries are systematically eroding their welfare systems and taking benefits away from the needy. Give them an excuse to do the same to autistic people by convincing the world too soon that it doesn't have to be as disabling as some people see it, we risk shooting our collective selves in the foot.

To make progress we should focus on the real issue at stake. People with autism often get a bum deal in life. Some of us find ways to get around it by masking or being lucky enough to be amongst tolerant people, but it presents us all with challenges of some sort. We need to communicate the range of differences, and consequences of autism. We have to communicate the potential of neural differences, however severe or disabling they may be. Arguing amongst ourselves about whether it's more right to consider ourselves diverse or disabled, or whether "person first" terminology is more or less desirable than being called autistic, is just holding us back.

We all want an easier lot in life. We'd all like to mask less and be accepted for who we are. We'd all like better employment opportunities and civil dignity. Those are the real issues I personally wish to concentrate on. How about you?

 

[TheNomadicAspie]

Autistamatic, I agree with everything you are saying 100%. I feel as though my statements have been taken out of context due to my use of the word disabled, but you did an excellent job of explaining the point I was attempting to make.

People who are Autistic face various challenges and certainly have various degrees of limitations depending on where they are on the spectrum as well as the environment they were raised in. Just as a neurotypical person won't be good at everything they do, neurodiverse people will have various strengths and weaknesses as well. Some obstacles may very well be insurmountable, but I think it's important to understand that anyone who is capable of accessing this website and reading these posts has the cognitive ability to improve their lives.

Thank you for your well written post.

 

[Autistamatic]

it's important to understand that anyone who is capable of accessing this website and reading these posts has the cognitive ability to improve their lives.

I would agree in as far as that is likely true of a larger proportion of members than not, but "anyone" is maybe going a little too far. Some of our members have difficulties that are far more apparent in person than online. We have time to write structured posts and replies here, without the attached anxiety of immediacy or of face to face contact. There are people sharing on here that have permanent carers or live in sheltered accomodation and care homes. There are people who have never worked despite trying their damnedest to get employment, or never been in love even though their hearts are full of yearning.

Yes, those of us who are blessed with high intellect and are without some of the more difficult aspects of autism can overcome a great deal through practice and determination, especially with support, but some just can't. Whether it be solely down to their own difficulties or as much influenced by their environment, they keep trying but to no avail.
Also bear in mind that awareness of autism and the facilities available to people vary by country and region. The support at the disposal of Peter may be nothing but a dream to Paul.

It can be difficult when people pickup on individual words or turns of phrase and take exception. It's happened to many of us, myself included, but it's to be expected. We often overthink, dissect interactions and focus on details, so misunderstandings or miscommunications are inevitable among a community of autistic people. We must tread carefully.

Even I was taken aback a little when you said:

Being unable to look at yourself objectively causes an inability to know what what goals you should set for yourself,

because I've never had such a difficulty. I am VERY aware of who I am, my strengths and weaknesses and I set myself many goals that are within my grasp. It's true of some of us, especially those with poor EF but it's easy to interpret that as a generalisation.

I admire your positivity and your desire to give back and I share it but I have become increasingly aware since joining this community, of just how much diversity there is on the spectrum and the danger/offence that can be caused by making sweeping generalisations. I have learned much from this fine community and I know you will too

 

[55853]

I know there have been many posts since, but I would like to insert my thoughts.

If you told me OCD was a difference and not a disability, I would point out that OCD is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain

This is not how it has ever been diagnosed. Even the most recent criteria, it's diagnosed on obsessions and compulsions, not by analysing the brain. See DSM 5 diagnostic criteria. And a condition, such as most autism cases, being idiopathic (unknown cause), does not mean it's any less real.

Since a disability is widely agreed to be something that is unable to be "fixed," I would question whether or not having OCD and Asperger's would be disabilities in the first place, or if I just perceived them to be which brings me back to my original point.

It was not only you who perceived them this way, whoever diagnosed you also did.

DSM IV OCD diagnostic criteria
DSM IV AS diagnostic criteria

Look at point "C" in both:

OCD: "The obsessions or compulsions cause marked distress, are time consuming (take more than 1 hour a day), or significantly interfere with the person's normal routine, occupational (or academic) functioning, or usual social activities or relationships"

AS: "The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning"

The person diagnosing you must have seen your functioning as significantly impaired.

If this is no longer the case, that's good. But it brings me back to the bullet points. "I don't have a disability" > "I have autism" > "autism isn't a disability" > "people with autism are not disabled". Please examine the assumptions you are making during each stage.

Nothing I said was directed at you specifically or meant to be offensive, but if you choose to be offended that's your choice.

"Offended" is not the word I would use. I am frustrated. It is frustrating that you refuse to even open your mind to the possibility of different perspectives being valid. That you inaccurately try to explain other perspectives that don't fit into your rigid worldview. You have a "bottom-up" perspective of autism based on your own experiences, the people you know, and your (limited) college education. This is of course important, but you need to consider it from the "top-down", which based on your generalisations, is something you've not considered. All those of us diagnosed have in common is we fit the diagnostic criteria. What else we have or not is not something that can be accurately generalised. Please try to be aware of this.

My perspective is based on a lifetime of trying to change who I am

Mine too, but without the safety net of having diagnoses. This is a fundamental difference. I don't expect you to ever truly understand what that's like, but it should not be impossible to gain a superficial understanding.

attitude and belief in yourself largely controls your ability to do something

Of course it does. But you're equating perspective and opinion to attitude, which is wrong, as they're different. My attitude towards myself and life have improved dramatically since I was diagnosed. I'm more positive, not less. I do much more activities, not less.

Where is this supposed attitude you are fighting against, anyway? I've only seen it from members of this site with depression. If you spend more time on the site, you'll see that many (I'd say most) believe they are superior. Like this recent topic and the replies, for example:

What would I be missing out on if I wasn't on the spectrum

Once you define being Autistic as a disability, you're doing two things:
1. Admitting that being Autistic is limiting your ability to do something or achieve something.
2. Admitting that you'll never be able to change that.

What does "that" at the end refer to? I believe I'll always be autistic. However, as I stated before, abilities are not static and difficulties can adapted to. What I struggle with now is different to what I struggled with 10 years ago. What I struggle with now will be different in 10 years. There are things that autism is currently limiting, but I know that's not permanent, which is why I never stop trying.

If you believe that, then these are my points.:
1. Being Autistic may change your priorities, comfort level in certain situations, and the way you perceive the world, but it doesn't keep you from being happy unless you define your happiness as your ability to be like other people.
2. You shouldn't want to change who you are unless it's for yourself and not for validation

Again, I've already stated this. It's my own internal drive, not external. And I am happy, but I really wasn't before I knew I had a problem.

I think many people with Autism have two conflicting thoughts that are the source of much of their anxiety:
1. The inability to like the same activities, do the same things, or act the same way as the people around them, which leads them to a belief that there is something wrong with them.
2. The inability to emulate others. Since Autistic people have a natural inability to empathize and know what's "normal," we tend to use the behavior of others as a model for what we should be ideally.

This is a generalisation based from your own experience.

Since that person likely has spent a lifetime being in uncomfortable situations without running away from them, it's manageable. It still may be difficult, but it's tolerable.

A neurodiverse person in the same situation may find it intolerable. Not because there's something wrong with them, but because throughout their life they may have run away from every uncomfortable change. Maybe they had to eat a type of food they disliked, or there was a small change in their daily routine. A neurodiverse person is likely to have avoided uncomfortable situations as much as possible whether necessary or not, and throughout a lifetime that limits their ability to confront changes that are uncomfortable but necessary.

Again, this is your own experience. For those of us with adulthood diagnoses, this is unlikely to be the case. I didn't have the opportunity to run away from uncomfortable situations. I'm not neurotypical, but your description of a neurotypical fits me there.

So at the root of the problem is that neurodiverse people generally have no experience knowing which situations they have to confront directly, and which ones would always make them miserable despite pressure from neurotypical people who think it's what would be best for them. Making the decision to confront difficult situations can be discouraging when you don't know which situations to confront and which ones are unnecessary.

Maybe this is true for those with a childhood diagnosis. I wouldn't know. But it's not true for me, and I would be surprised if it was true for anyone first diagnosed with anything in adulthood. We all have very different experiences, please try to remember this.

The ability to know what's best for you is something that takes practice just like anything else in life. If you spend your life having self-limiting thoughts, those thoughts will be true for you. The determining factor in being able to lead a happy and fulfilling life isn't where you are on the spectrum, it's the ability to understand yourself and know what you want out of life.

Again, as difficult as it may be for you to understand, finding out you have a disability can be a very positive thing. It may have been self-limiting for you, but you can't accurately extrapolate that to everyone. I understand myself far better now I know I'm disabled. I lead a happier and more fulfilling life now I know I'm disabled. Why? I'm not comparing my abilities to others. I'm comparing my abilities to what they were in the past, and looking at where I want them to be in the future. It's increased my self-esteem and self-confidence to know it's not my fault I'm struggling.

 

[Autistamatic]

If you spend more time on the site, you'll see that many (I'd say most) believe they are superior.

I think the fact that many people are comfortable with their autism and appreciate it's gifts whilst living with the deficits is a very long way from considering themselves to be "superior" to people outside the spectrum. I would be extremely concerned if any one of us were expressing such damaging views outside this community. Such opinions only serve to widen the rift between the ASD & NT communities which will only hinder us further.
It merely implies that they accept the balance of pros and cons and would rather preserve their existing identity over an alternative personality which may miss out on the pleasures in life they currently enjoy. They know that the grass is not greener on the NT side of the fence.
There was a time when genuine Aspie supremacists existed in droves which is what drove me away from online ASD circles during the early 2000s. These were people who echoed the worst in humanity, believing not only in their superiority, but that non autistic people were a dying species that should accept their fate to make way for them as the next great step in evolution. I'm sure if you go looking you'll find plenty of them on the Way Back Machine. I shan't be looking because I'd rather not visit those dark days.
They still exist now but in a small minority, along with the self loathing ones who seek all of us to be cured so that we can fit into the New World Order of perfection they so wish to see established.
The majority of us, whether we are comfortable with our balance as ASD people or we feel the weight of our difficulties upon our shoulders are NOT extremists who consider ourselves superior or inferior but as equals to the rest of the world if given the chance to demonstrate it.

 

[Theta.G]

Aut mazter race

Spoiler

lol

 

[55853]

I think the fact that many people are comfortable with their autism and appreciate it's gifts whilst living with the deficits is a very long way from considering themselves to be "superior" to people outside the spectrum. I would be extremely concerned if any one of us were expressing such damaging views outside this community. Such opinions only serve to widen the rift between the ASD & NT communities which will only hinder us further.
It merely implies that they accept the balance of pros and cons and would rather preserve their existing identity over an alternative personality which may miss out on the pleasures in life they currently enjoy. They know that the grass is not greener on the NT side of the fence.
There was a time when genuine Aspie supremacists existed in droves which is what drove me away from online ASD circles during the early 2000s. These were people who echoed the worst in humanity, believing not only in their superiority, but that non autistic people were a dying species that should accept their fate to make way for them as the next great step in evolution. I'm sure if you go looking you'll find plenty of them on the Way Back Machine. I shan't be looking because I'd rather not visit those dark days.
They still exist now but in a small minority, along with the self loathing ones who seek all of us to be cured so that we can fit into the New World Order of perfection they so wish to see established.
The majority of us, whether we are comfortable with our balance as ASD people or we feel the weight of our difficulties upon our shoulders are NOT extremists who consider ourselves superior or inferior but as equals to the rest of the world if given the chance to demonstrate it.

I've said it before in other posts, but not in this one, so I'll say it again: I really struggle with English. It takes me hours or days to think of how to reply to posts on this website. It is very difficult for me to put my thoughts into words. I'm sorry that I don't always use the correct words. Which word would you suggest to communicate the attitude many on this site have towards their autism, which vastly contrasts inferiority? A word which does not imply extremism? I cannot find anything suitable with any of the thesaurus tools online. I did not intend to use a word with strong implications here. I was intending to communicate that this inferiority complex that the OP is fighting against only seems to be present in people with depression, and that most people on this site see autism positively.

It can be difficult when people pickup on individual words or turns of phrase and take exception

In case I've used the wrong word again somewhere, please remember this is what is happening.

 

[the_tortoise]

There is no "right way" to do it, nor is there a right or wrong in whether we choose to regard ourselves as diverse or disabled.

Personally, I see myself as both. I see my autism and my ADHD as both forms of valuable diversity and as disabilities. I don't see disability and diversity as mutually exclusive things.

Which word would you suggest to communicate the attitude many on this site have towards their autism, which vastly contrasts inferiority?

Accepting? Celebratory? Proud?

(I know you didn't ask me but in forum discussions I just jump in for questions that technically anyone can or might wish to answer....hopefully that is alright.)

 

[Sarah S]

For what its worth from MY feelings i regard al my different diagnosis as 101 % disability and yes i blame them fore compleatly destroying whatever chance i had in a "normal ord life " it was my diagnosis that finally got me beaten so i had no choice then stepping down and accept my permanent disability (or early retirement Sick pension) & its also said diagnosis was WHY i was approved this. SO in my case my " disabilities (ie NSD diagnosis) was my down fall .and even with al the ods stacked against me i managed to come AL the way(ie get my licences and start working as Commercial truck driver) and i should also ad A + from AL my recent bosses, It was my Diagnosis that finally took me down and nothing else.

 

[Autistamatic]

@55853 No problem, I do understand, but that's why I think it's important we point such things out to each other in a friendly, non confrontational manner so that people can explain themselves, which you have done. Thank you

Superiority is indeed the opposite of inferiority, which are the extreme ends of the same line. Inferiority is the belief that something is less worthy than what it is being compared to (NT people in this case) whilst superiority is believing that something is more worthy. Both can be harmful to the individual and to the people around them. Inferiority can lead to low self esteem and mental health problems, superiority can lead to narcissism and inflated ego.

The vast majority of us seek only parity i.e. equality, not just in law but in opportunities, protection and public perception. A better way of wording the phrase might have been:

"you'll see that many (I'd say most) believe they are equal."

If you were to use the word "superior" to someone outside the spectrum when describing the people on this forum it would likely be interpreted as suggesting we are arrogant and deluded, which would not create a positive impression of autism.

Personally, I see myself as both. I see my autism and my ADHD as both forms of valuable diversity and as disabilities.

I can say similar about my own experience, but with a qualification. I have lived most of my life undetected - acknowledged as a bit different, but not having to disclose, however, when stress builds up my autistic difficulties rise to the surface. Anxiety and exhaustion can rob me of the control that normally allows me to channel the gifts autism has blessed me with, so that my autistic weaknesses become more difficult to overcome.
My "regular" self I consider diverse whereas my stressed/exhausted self is more disabled. I agree that they are not mutually exclusive though. Disability is a form of diversity in it's own right.

 

[DiverseWonderland]

I kind of see it as both, I do wish i didn't have certain problems and it can be a real pain sometimes But...I wouldn't trade my Autism for the world With out it i would be Me and i like being "The odd one out" sometimes, I also don't know how to describe this but i like the way I "Feel"...I don't know how best to but that but yea and i it does come with obstetrical but with Hopes, Dreams and Determination those can be stepped over

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

I'm reasonably disabled and have no problem admitting it.

I make lots of stupid mistakes at work, have no ability to perceive the intentions of others, can't maintain personal relationships, fail at social mores, struggle with unfamiliar surroundings, get taken advantage of and generally neglect "important" things.

I don't think the ability to retain useless information makes up for all this.

 

[Otenba]

Otenba, could you elaborate on what about my post made you think that I was implying being disabled is something to be ashamed of? I'm simply using the word for what it means.

Disabled: having a physical or mental condition that limits movements, senses, or activities.

From a literal sense, my point is that having Asperger's or Autism does not mean your ability to accomplish certain activities is limited. Neurotypical people are not naturally fearful of social interaction, so they get lots of practice and get better at it over time. Neurodiverse people tend to avoid socializing, which is a skill that has to be learned with practice. Just as a child will not be as good at socializing as an adult without practice, an adult with Autism will not be good at socializing without practice. It doesn't mean they can't make friends or find love if they want, they just may need practice to do so since many neurodiverse people spend their entire lives avoiding it.

Those skills can be practiced and honed. Having Autism or Asperger's does not mean that you're unable to do the same things neurotypical people can do. Instead it means that you may not have the same desire to, or if you do it may take you time to be as comfortable talking to people as a neurotypical person.

As a brief backstory, when I was a child I was very low-functioning and borderline non-verbal. I had random outbursts in school, and I had a full-time student aid whose sole job was to keep me from disrupting the class. I couldn't talk or speak to anyone, and I had severe OCD. I washed my hands until they bled, I had a routine where I would get in and out of bed for an hour until it "felt right," turned light switches on and off a certain number of times, counted the number of letters in my head for every word I thought of, couldn't let the food on my plate touch, everything in my room had to be perpendicular to each other, and the ticks I had made it impossible to do anything even if I could ever overcome my fears enough to talk to people and make friends.

Today, although I may not enjoy socializing much, I'm able to fit into any crowd. People can still tell that I'm a little weird, but most people that find out I have Asperger's say they never would have guessed.

Many people with Autism do of course have actual disabilities, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. I would never imply there's something WRONG with having a disability, but many people think that having Autism or Asperger's alone means that they will never be able to do the things they want to do. My intent in making this post was to offer a different perspective, as being neurodiverse is not a disability (Not that there is anything to be ashamed about if you do).

I just want people to be able to live their best life, and not let self-doubt and a lack of confidence keep them from making the best of a situation they may wish they weren't in. I personally am proud to be neurodiverse and all of my closest friends are on the spectrum.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm mostly looking at it from an employment point of view. Clearly they're disabled when such a high percentage of autistic people are unable to keep a job due to their autism. In the UK you are protected by disability law as well. Cherry picking what you want to see as disability and making sure people know you're not that (so shaming it... being ableist) is all I'm getting from you. Look at the topic title too.

 

[55853]

Accepting? Celebratory? Proud?

(I know you didn't ask me but in forum discussions I just jump in for questions that technically anyone can or might wish to answer....hopefully that is alright.)

I think "celebratory" and "proud" would communicate what I was intending. It is more than "alright", it has been useful, thank you.

you'll see that many (I'd say most) believe they are equal."

I see what you are saying, but I was looking for a word with more positivity implied than "equal". Would you agree with the words "proud" and "celebratory" @the_tortoise added as being true?

 

[Autistamatic]

"Proud" is fair as opposed to ashamed. There is no shame in being autistic whether looked at from a diversity or a disability angle. To be proud does not imply the belief that one is better than others in itself nor feel inferior either.

 

[Mr Allen]

That's the thing though, as well as being Aspie, I'm also physically disabled

I wouldn't want to be wheelchair bound, but on the other hand, if I was, the Tories would literally be falling over themselves to give me money.