What's wrong with this sentence?

[Ste11aeres]

I found this on a website, and I've found this mindset is quite common. Now I should state that it is good that this woman obviously tries to adjust to her AS spouse's style, and they do have a good marriage. That being said, there seems to be a weird slip up of her reasoning faculty in the following paragraph...

"The lesson here is to tell him what you want. The first time my husband didn?t buy me a gift for Mother?s Day and I expressed my dismay, he responded, ?But you?re not my mother.? The next year and the year after that, he continued to ignore the venerated holiday as I grew increasingly resentful. In reality, ?I? had failed to take the next step of saying, ?It is customary to buy the mother of your children a Mother?s Day gift and I expect one?this is the date.? Rather than unrealistic romantic notions that he?d catch on because he was simply inspired to express his undying devotion to me, he required specific instruction.
The same goes in reverse. Due to a typical Asperger characteristic of mind-blindness, or the inability to perceive others? intentions, our spouses on the spectrum may assume we know what they need without telling us."

Read more: Full-spectrum marriage: married to an Aspie | Autism Support Network

What's wrong with that last sentence? Here's what's wrong...
So how come if Marital Problem Scenario 1an NT spouse doesn't tell their AS spouse something, hoping that s/he will understand without words, it's because of the Aspie, because of his mind-blindness, when he doesn't realize what's needed. But if Marital Problem Scenario 2the AS spouse doesn't tell their NT spouse something, hoping s/he will understand without words, it's the fault of...Guess who? :unsure: It's the Aspie , because of his mind-blindness...

:banghead:

Please tell me you see what's wrong with this picture

 

[Ste11aeres]

The specific sentence referred to in the title of this thread was the last sentence of her paragraph.

 

[Gomendosi]

Please tell me you see what's wrong with this picture

Well to my mind the problem is as it has always been, blame is easier to place than to accept. The true fact is that it is easier to be upset with somebody for not understanding than it is to reiterate the same sentiment in terms that they can understand.

We see it all the time with parents now, the child doesn't understand something so rather than teach them in as many different ways as we can until they grasp the concept, instead the child is assumed to be deficient in some aspect wether that be listening skills, ability to follow instruction or literal interpretation even.
What isn't entirely in focus is that we assume what we have said is easily understandable because it is the simplest recitation of what we know ourselves, and we feel we cant make it any simpler, but we often forget that the other person isn't necessarily in command of the same knowledge as us and no amount of talking is going to suffice unless an explanation for the reasoning is offered up.

In the first instance the AS character isn't in full possession of all the facts and cant understand how it all relates to him so waits for explanation whereas the partner assumes he will connect the dots which is probably not going to happen, she could explain the culture behind the tradition and reiterate her feeling that he should participate but what she really should do is address the underlying issue which is that she feels he isn't responsive to external convention on their relationship. The Aspie male is just happy to have her but she wants everything out of the relationship that society says she should have.

In the second scenario the AS character doesn't admit to lack of comprehension of the significance of the date and thereby sets in motion a chain of misgivings related to an assumption of lack of care on his part, which couldn't be farther from the truth, he probably does care but not in the way that she assumes is conventional, he isn't cold and unfeeling he is just genuinely oblivious to her expectation that he be more "normal" when she hasn't said as such, she said it would be good if he did that but not that he had to do it, and her explanation of why he should do it was lacking in that he countered her argument with a more valid point which she didn't refute.

He probably feels that she hasn't addressed the fact she isn't his mother and so he still doesn't have to buy her a gift on mothers day, however, if she had of said it is widely accepted in this day and age that Mothers Day is now a day to celebrate motherhood in general and her part in that in particular, and that a gift from him would show his appreciation of her efforts in her motherly duties throughout the year then he may well have gotten on board, but until that point she was just waffling on that she wanted something from him for nothing on a day that, in his opinion, wasn't meant for her.

 

[Historianthomas]

I look at this in a broader context. Honest communication is the key to any relationship. The other day, I talked to my girlfriend that my anxiety level was heightened due to what could be conceivable be thought of as a miscommunication between my close friend and myself. That exchange would never have taken place last year because I hardly communicated my feelings in a constructive healthy way. Our relationship at that time was distant causing anxiety on both sides. Spouses, Aspie or not, need to put into relationship what they are able to give, and there needs to be an understanding on both sides what each other weaknesses are. It was only this year, did I found out that I have Aspergers. We made great strides in understanding each other, at the same time each of us tried very hard to improving our own weaknesses for the sake of our personal selves and our relationship. I still have a long way to go. I am going to see about getting into a longer term therapy and maybe anti-anxiety medication to deal with my friendship anxiety. Same thing goes with my close friend. I am learning to be more open with my feelings. Relationships boil down to this, both sides have give a part of themselves, communicate their needs in a constructive way, and work on their weaknesses. This is a lesson I have learned this year. Previously, while in our relationship I only thought about myself. I was kind and caring, but I was very selfish. Selfish not as a personal flaw but as a descriptor of my emotional state. I was all about my pursuit of a career because my identity was wrapped up in it. Now, I see things differently, still nowhere near perfect, but to see how I was and still are acting sometimes gives me more responsibility to work on it.

 

[Ste11aeres]

In the first instance the AS character isn't in full possession of all the facts and cant understand how it all relates to him so waits for explanation whereas the partner assumes he will connect the dots which is probably not going to happen, she could explain the culture behind the tradition and reiterate her feeling that he should participate but what she really should do is address the underlying issue which is that she feels he isn't responsive to external convention on their relationship. The Aspie male is just happy to have her but she wants everything out of the relationship that society says she should have.

In the second scenario the AS character doesn't admit to lack of comprehension of the significance of the date and thereby sets in motion a chain of misgivings related to an assumption of lack of care on his part, which couldn't be farther from the truth, he probably does care but not in the way that she assumes is conventional, he isn't cold and unfeeling he is just genuinely oblivious to her expectation that he be more "normal" when she hasn't said as such, she said it would be good if he did that but not that he had to do it, and her explanation of why he should do it was lacking in that he countered her argument with a more valid point which she didn't refute.

.

The thing that was irritating me was that the NT spouse in the first instance and the AS spouse in the second instance were doing the exact same thing, and the AS spouse in the first instance and the NT spouse in the second instance were in the exact same position

It would have been more logical to blame it on the NT spouse in the first instance and the AS spouse in the second instance for assuming the other could mind-read, Or to blame it on the AS spouse in the first instance and on the NT spouse in the second instance for not being more intuitive

But in both cases it is attributed to Aspie "mind-blindness."

 

[Historianthomas]

The thing that was irritating me was that the NT spouse in the first instance and the AS spouse in the second instance were doing the exact same thing, and the AS spouse in the first instance and the NT spouse in the second instance were in the exact same position

It would have been more logical to blame it on the NT spouse in the first instance and the AS spouse in the second instance for assuming the other could mind-read, Or to blame it on the AS spouse in the first instance and on the NT spouse in the second instance for not being more intuitive

But in both cases it is attributed to Aspie "mind-blindness."

I think people often do that because we as a society loves to pathologizes troubles by relating them to a mental illness or troubled family life. Unhappiness in a relationship: the spouse had bad parents etc. While it can be helpful, the individual needs to take responsibility.

 

[Soup]

The Aspie is not always wrong. I am an Aspie mom & I don't give a hoot one way or the other about mother's day, father's day, my birthday, Sadie Hawkins day or most other 'big' days. If you trace the origins of many of them, they were invented by greeting card & other retail companies in order to generate sales during off seasons! There are many NTs who don't care for these days either. Perhaps her expectations are unrealistic: because someone decided to stick a holiday on a calendar should not obligate others to behave in certain ways (like spend money!). 'expecting' a gift (more like demanding one) renders the 'gifter' obligated . S/he must give a gift of some kind but his or her heart may not be in it if that holiday means nothing to him.

That being said...in a marriage, you may have to compromise at times around another person's sensitivities. If it will spare the other person a bunch of hurt, resentment & hard feelings, buying some flowers and a small gift is an easy way to prevent a problem. The sensitive person, too, must guard against becoming emotionally demanding, too needy & use emotional outbursts & unreasonable demands to control the partner.

The issue of being an Aspie married to or in a relationship with a NT is complex. Anything that goes awry tends to get blamed on or attributed to the person who has the diagnosis. That person then has a hard time defending himself or even making his point since others distort anything he says into 'evidence' that, due to whatever is wrong with him, he doesn't 'get' it, is being stubborn or refuses to see that he is wrong. He may not be! Whenever said Aspie (or whatever Dx he has) gets angry about something, it is never because the person has a darned good reason: it gets dismissed as being a function of his condition. If this is happening to anyone out there in your relationship, you need to sit the person down & work it out. If the person in unwilling to understand & continues to blame you & dismiss you, get the hell out of there.

 

[Judge]

The thing that was irritating me was that the NT spouse in the first instance and the AS spouse in the second instance were doing the exact same thing, and the AS spouse in the first instance and the NT spouse in the second instance were in the exact same position

It would have been more logical to blame it on the NT spouse in the first instance and the AS spouse in the second instance for assuming the other could mind-read, Or to blame it on the AS spouse in the first instance and on the NT spouse in the second instance for not being more intuitive

But in both cases it is attributed to Aspie "mind-blindness."

Totally agree. Similar sentiments once expressed in a famous book come to mind.

Where "all animals are created equal. But some animals are more equal than others." - George Orwell's "Animal Farm".

 

[Nolan1971]

I agree with Soup the aspie is not always wrong. I am a very emotional/sentimental gift giver and love to do something for almost
all the various holidays but I give out of love not because I feel any obligation to do so and would be deeply offended by feeling I had to.
That ruins the whole point and spirit of a gift!

 

[erk70]

Hmmm... but I am not sure the author of the article means what you think.

I think what she's trying to say is that even though an AS might not express their needs clearly but in fact assume everyone knows them (due to lack of mentalization) the NT in the relationship will still have to express their needs clearly - if they want the mother's day gift...

It's not always going to work to simply copy the Aspies behavior. It may in fact make things worse.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I do actually think this woman's attitude and marriage seemed good. It was overall a good article. But you know, my aspie loyalty-to-Aspieness rose up. And i tend to get irked by poor reasoning, even if much of what someone said was good.

Here's what my sister said "I get what you mean -- I think it's definitely true. People find it easier to blame people who exhibit less common attributes. I think in this case it's really well-meant -- trying to describe how to make sure you communicate effectively -- but like I said, I think you're right on with this observation. It's easy when someone is diagnosed with something like AS to blame *everything* ON the AS, which is just our tendency to seek an explanation we feel like works for us."

 

[Spinning Compass]

To quote a famous movie character: "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Despite the claims made by psychics and others, NO ONE can read another's mind. It doesn't matter if you are NT or ASD or anything. I grew up in a house where mind-reading was expected--nobody EVER made their wants and desires directly known to the person most affected, it was always "You ought to know." My mother had expectations of my father; my father had expectations of my mother; both had expectations of their children, and we were all expected to know without saying what all those expectations were. I know this because whenever I tried to get those expectations clarified, "You ought to know." Well, no, we don't. Being in the position of a child versus adults where a child was to be powerless I had to just step aside and try to figure out things the best I could. I had to listen to "your mother", "your father". So many times I wanted to say to them, why don't you TELL the other person? But I could not, because that would be stepping out of place. After all THEY were adults and had nothing at all to learn from children.

 

[tree]

Ste11aeres

Due to a typical Asperger characteristic of mind-blindness, or the inability to perceive others? intentions, our spouses on the spectrum may assume we know what they need without telling us."

This is a description of my mother.
She scores entirely NT on tests.
She is frequently annoyed that people fail to
'take a hint.'

"Can't take a hint" is a criticism she makes whenever
anybody doesn't conform to her unspoken wish. She
regards this as willful ignorance verging upon stupidity.

It is amazing, really, to hear about the number of people
who fail her in this way.

 

[Keith]

Reminds me of my problem of understanding what is usually viewed as common sense. It takes me longer to understand. I have to be explained such things rather than being expected to already know. Not always, but I have a history.