Was anyone else ever terrified about death? Any advice?

[Ste83ph]

Help! I work with a 17 year old guy who has just been diagnosed with epilepsy. Long story, but someone at college told him when you die there's nothing anymore and it's got him terrified. He's been crying, asking if he'll die of a seizure, asking who of his family will die next. He said he just can't get the bad thoughts out of his head.

I've known him for years, I do stuff on social skills and emotional coping and generally try and help him with whatever he wants help with. I could really do with some insights from Aspies who might have a better idea of what my friend is going through. Or anything that helped you? It might be that he never gets comfortable with the idea of death (I know I never did!), but any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Steph

 

[donn]

I contemplated the idea of death seriously starting at around seven years old. I've gone through various iterations since that time, but I can't honestly say that my stance is easily explained in a calming manner. A good, widely used quote is, "Do you remember what it was like before you were born? Well, the same thing applies after you die."

That quote assumes that your friend has accepted that there is no continued sense of his self after death, and needs a sense of it as a natural thing, not regarded with an unnatural degree of fear. A great deal of religion focuses on telling people that their self, in terms of the soul, will continue on forever, but there are alternative views which I find to be more rooted in reality rather than wish fulfillment.

***If one has accepted that there is little reason to believe that the soul/ego continues on after death, the only way to handle this without a feeling of despair, or willing blindness, is by adjusting one's view of life itself.***

There are some wonderful lectures on this subject, including such things as life as a drama and "Death is just an undulation in consciousness." That's a quote by Alan Watts, who I think delivers a very good, calming lecture on the subject. However, exactly which resources I'd recommend a person listen to depend on the person in question.

 

[Ste83ph]

Thanks for replying Donn, it's good to have some other ideas to think about. I haven't been able to talk to him about it yet (but should do tomorrow) so I'm not sure exactly what he's thinking about. I know I won't be able to go in and make the idea of death Ok, but it's still good to have some ideas of things that might take the edge off his distress. Or things that might help him process his thoughts on it. I think he's scared about loss and people he loves dying as well, but I can't be sure. I probably just think that because that's the part of death that scares me the most!

Thanks again.

 

[Ylva]

What did he think would happen before someone told him that?

Epilepsy doesn't strike me as a death sentence.
But, as Epicurus said: "While I am, death is not; when death is, I am not. Why should I fear what cannot exist when I do?"

In any case, fear of death is healthy. It's the emotional outbursts that are probably not healthy.

 

[On the Inside]

I was a bit fixated on how I might die, but not so much about what happened afterwards when I was 11 up to about 15. My mom was an RN and had nursing journals laying around the house for anyone to read. Frankly, they terrified me with their graphic and clinical depiction of disease. Now, I don't really care how I die, as long as it isn't prolonged needlessly by resuscitation, intubation, or other life support.

What happens afterwards? Well, I'm as susceptible to wish fulfillment as the next, and reincarnation, as silly as it seems, would get my vote. I feel like I've had several lives where I was the first young lad to die in battle. And I'd like to come back as a bird of prey. But realistically, Donn explained it quite well.

I think your friend has anxiety issues, not uncommon, and the topic of death is winding him up.

 

[Ste83ph]

Thanks for replying.

What did he think would happen before someone told him that?

Good question, he knew about death in terms of family & others who have died. And he sometimes finds it sad when characters in films die - if he liked them. I guess he hadn't thought about it in relation to himself before?

Epilepsy doesn't strike me as a death sentence.

Agreed, I think he's still getting his head around what it means for him really. Rarely people do die of seizures, but we've told him he's got meds now that will keep him safe from that.

In any case, fear of death is healthy. It's the emotional outbursts that are probably not healthy.

Yeah, I hope it's because he's processing some new ideas - unsettling ideas. I can remember being really upset when I twigged my parents would die one day and I'd be 'all alone in the world'. It's not something that troubles me anymore but it did at the time!

 

[Ste83ph]

I think your friend has anxiety issues, not uncommon, and the topic of death is winding him up.

I think you're probably spot on!
With other anxieties I'd suggest a mixture of talking about it (working out if the worries are justified, seeing what we could do to make whatever it is more manageable) and distraction. I'm not sure what the best approach is with this one - coming to terms with the idea of death is quite a biggy!

 

[Tom]

Not death, but other things. It was anxiety/phobias, which is a very common co-morbid to ASD. Check how those are dealt with. But really he may need a doctor/meds also to make a significant improvement.

 

[Ste83ph]

Not death, but other things. It was anxiety/phobias, which is a very common co-morbid to ASD. Check how those are dealt with. But really he may need a doctor/meds also to make a significant improvement.

Thanks Tom,
That makes sense. Anxiety and phobias I've got experience with (I'm a counselling psychologist), but sometimes things come up that I really need some Aspie insight on. Sometimes no amount of training is as good as just asking the advice of people with first hand experience

Thanks for all the replies, I'm seeing him tomorrow so I'll see where we go with it

Steph

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom,
That makes sense. Anxiety and phobias I've got experience with (I'm a counselling psychologist), but sometimes things come up that I really need some Aspie insight on. Sometimes no amount of training is as good as just asking the advice of people with first hand experience

Thanks for all the replies, I'm seeing him tomorrow so I'll see where we go with it

Steph

I think it may be just a case of anxiety/phobias sometimes being more intense with Aspies. Our hyperfocus works against us perhaps in this case. But I suspect the therapy is mostly the same.

 

[Stik]

I'm terrified of death a well. I think it has something to do with being forgotten for me, now I just do what I can to be remembered. It still hits me really hard sometimes, especially when there's a death in the family. When that happens I just ride it out and tell myself that I'm alive right now and should do stuff I enjoy.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Sounds to me less of a fear of death and more of a fear of the afterlife or lack thereof. What I would do is just try to explain to him there is no conclusive scientific evidence that there is or is not life after death, and that if he wishes to believe in heaven, reincarnation, or his afterlife of choice, then he should without worry. And also tell him to chill out. Stress, sleep, and caffeine are triggers of many irritations, including seizures, and stressing himself out over his eventual death and relatives' deaths are just going to hurt him in the long run.

As for death itself, I just get frustrated. I'll spend hours working on a craft or hobby, and sometimes the thought will hit me that eventually it will just rot, fall apart, and my descendants will never know about it. Assuming they don't destroy it themselves because it was just something their weird great-great-granny made. I have no guarantee my descendants will be as interested in their family as a whole and pass stories along, like how I'm interested in it.

 

[donn]

Thanks for replying Donn, it's good to have some other ideas to think about. I haven't been able to talk to him about it yet (but should do tomorrow) so I'm not sure exactly what he's thinking about. I know I won't be able to go in and make the idea of death Ok, but it's still good to have some ideas of things that might take the edge off his distress. Or things that might help him process his thoughts on it. I think he's scared about loss and people he loves dying as well, but I can't be sure. I probably just think that because that's the part of death that scares me the most!

Thanks again.

The fear of death is either the fear of being forgotten or of being alone, aside from the immediate fear of "ego" experience ending.

Your friend appears to be experiencing the latter two, and it seems that many here share my old concern with the former. The extremity to which your friend has suffered this, as well as the suddenness, certainly reinforce the anxiety/phobia side that has been suggested, and any coping techniques you, as a counselor, know to handle that side should be applied first, I would suggest. There's a way of talking down people with a fear of death that I'm familiar with, but it is as much about demeanor as the actual information that one imparts - that won't get across if he's too wound up.

It occurs to me that one thing to point out, that being dead isn't just like the time before being born, it's like that time you were eight and went out to play and nothing special happened. It's like every little moment, every day and month, that you have absolutely no memory of. Those are all real, and all vanished, and isn't life wonderful all the same? The thing we fear most in our own death is with us throughout all our lives, and one can either transfer that fear to all of life or the love of life to a peace with death.

Sounds to me less of a fear of death and more of a fear of the afterlife or lack thereof. What I would do is just try to explain to him there is no conclusive scientific evidence that there is or is not life after death, and that if he wishes to believe in heaven, reincarnation, or his afterlife of choice, then he should without worry. And also tell him to chill out. Stress, sleep, and caffeine are triggers of many irritations, including seizures, and stressing himself out over his eventual death and relatives' deaths are just going to hurt him in the long run.

As for death itself, I just get frustrated. I'll spend hours working on a craft or hobby, and sometimes the thought will hit me that eventually it will just rot, fall apart, and my descendants will never know about it. Assuming they don't destroy it themselves because it was just something their weird great-great-granny made. I have no guarantee my descendants will be as interested in their family as a whole and pass stories along, like how I'm interested in it.

I absolutely agree with telling him to chill, but I would not be in a rush to argue for a choice to believe in the afterlife. The suddenness of his shock suggests, to me, that this might leave him in a somewhat precarious position - all too likely to concern himself again with the question, only to suffer more panic attacks in the future. I haven't meant a person yet who took real, consistent comfort in Pascal's wager, and consistency seems particularly important in this case.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I absolutely agree with telling him to chill, but I would not be in a rush to argue for a choice to believe in the afterlife. The suddenness of his shock suggests, to me, that this might leave him in a somewhat precarious position - all too likely to concern himself again with the question, only to suffer more panic attacks in the future. I haven't meant a person yet who took real, consistent comfort in Pascal's wager, and consistency seems particularly important in this case.

Aye. Sometimes I forget most people don't like to sit and think and brood on more spiritual/philosophical things, and they quite likely would rush into it or make a snap decision. I can't even make a quick decision at a restaurant.

 

[DC1346]

Help! I work with a 17 year old guy who has just been diagnosed with epilepsy. Long story, but someone at college told him when you die there's nothing anymore and it's got him terrified. He's been crying, asking if he'll die of a seizure, asking who of his family will die next. He said he just can't get the bad thoughts out of his head.

Is he religious? Most religions believe in an afterlife.

If he isn't religious, you might introduce him to the concept of reincarnation and the existence of old souls.

I don't really understand his fear of death. Death happens and in time it will come for all of us. It probably helps that I've been a volunteer firefighter and I've seen a lot of death ... mostly from vehicular collisions where someone was thrown through a windshield where he/she impacted head first on the pavement and skidded 30 feet or so leaving a trail of blood and brain matter on the road. I've seen bodies of people who weren't wearing their seat belts. They were thrown from the car and crushed when the vehicle rolled over them. In one especially horrific collision, my engine company arrived on the scene to find flaming vehicles and a road strewn with blood, oil, gasoline, and shredded body parts .... legs ... feet ... hands ... torsos ...

 

[AsheSkyler]

Is he religious? Most religions believe in an afterlife.

If he isn't religious, you might introduce him to the concept of reincarnation and the existence of old souls.

I don't really understand his fear of death. Death happens and in time it will come for all of us. It probably helps that I've been a volunteer firefighter and I've seen a lot of death ... mostly from vehicular collisions where someone was thrown through a windshield where he/she impacted head first on the pavement and skidded 30 feet or so leaving a trail of blood and brain matter on the road. I've seen bodies of people who weren't wearing their seat belts. They were thrown from the car and crushed when the vehicle rolled over them. In one especially horrific collision, my engine company arrived on the scene to find flaming vehicles and a road strewn with blood, oil, gasoline, and shredded body parts .... legs ... feet ... hands ... torsos ...

My husband was a volunteer emergency responder, so he was strictly on clean-up duty and never at risk to walk into a burning building. He never saw anything in the quantity as your last example, but he did see a few very memorable instances when a human being is not properly restrained.

I don't understand the fear of death itself either. Now fear of the dying process? Oh, heck yeah, I totally understand that! Like that old joke, "I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like Grandpa. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in Grandpa's car." When I go, I want Death to tiptoe in and steal me away. Not heehaw around about as he makes up his mind over the course of several hours or years.

 

[DC1346]

I don't understand the fear of death itself either. Now fear of the dying process? Oh, heck yeah, I totally understand that! Like that old joke, "I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like Grandpa. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in Grandpa's car." When I go, I want Death to tiptoe in and steal me away. Not heehaw around about as he makes up his mind over the course of several hours or years.

I agree. I accept the idea of death but I'm not going to go quietly.

In 2013 a 60 year retired sportswriter named Martin Manley committed suicide. Why did he kill himself? He didn't want to get old.

I can't accept that.

Are you familiar with the work of the poet Dylan Thomas? One of his more enduring poems is called, "Do not go gentle into that good night."

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

I have always liked that poem ... and although I am not Christian, I also respect the teachings of John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church.

"Do all the good you can. By all the means you can. In all the ways you can. In all the places you can. At all the times you can. To all the people you can. As long as ever you can.”

That seems to be about as good a way to die as any ... dying in service to others and doing good for as long as I can.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I agree. I accept the idea of death but I'm not going to go quietly.

In 2013 a 60 year retired sportswriter named Martin Manley committed suicide. Why did he kill himself? He didn't want to get old.

I can't accept that.

I look forward to my blue hair years! I got it all planned out. Flame decal on my walker or a little flag on my wheel chair, teaching kids how to bake cookies, beautiful flowers in my house or on my porch, crocheting stuff... I am going to have so much fun! I'll even have a few "kids these days" gripe sessions just to amuse myself.

If health permits, anyway. I'll be a very sad granny if I can't at least tell amusing stories to any descendants I get to meet.

Are you familiar with the work of the poet Dylan Thomas? One of his more enduring poems is called, "Do not go gentle into that good night."

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

I have always liked that poem ... and although I am not Christian, I also respect the teachings of John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church.

"Do all the good you can. By all the means you can. In all the ways you can. In all the places you can. At all the times you can. To all the people you can. As long as ever you can.”

That seems to be about as good a way to die as any ... dying in service to others and doing good for as long as I can.

Nah, I haven't heard of him. But I find there are many good people like Mr. Wesley if you dig deep enough into any faith or philosophy. And even though they all seem to come from vastly different religions and cultures, I find they end up teaching the same thing: "Do all the good you can." Which is a lot nicer and positive way to say it than the previous summary I was using of "be nice". I shall have to add Mr. Wesley to my collections of quotes that I am trying to gather from all the kind people I can find.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I haven't meant a person yet who took real, consistent comfort in Pascal's wager, and consistency seems particularly important in this case.

I did.

I didn't know about Pascal, but I thought of the same thing on my own. I don't need that wager anymore, but there was a time (when I was a teenager) when it gave me real strength and comfort.

But I think one has to already believe in God in order to find comfort in that thought/"wager".