BryceMcBryde
Member
i've only recently started to get into art and while its fun, its kind of the same experience i had with guitar. starting out very mediocre and messing up alot. i know im still learning so im curious about the rest of you
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Question for drawers/painters. How long did it take you to get good at it?
- Thread starter BryceMcBryde
- Start date
Messing up in what way? Usually a mistake is based off our expectations. Just do a Bob Ross and turn a "mistake" into a happy little accident.
I take quite long hiatuses from art and for some reason when I return my skills are more refined. I didn't draw for about 5 years after school and being denied by my parents to study art in college. Then I started drawing; but from my imagination as I'm no good at landscapes, portraits and copying from real life. Can't capture any essence or resemblence when copying, so I just stick to what's inside my head.
Ed
I take quite long hiatuses from art and for some reason when I return my skills are more refined. I didn't draw for about 5 years after school and being denied by my parents to study art in college. Then I started drawing; but from my imagination as I'm no good at landscapes, portraits and copying from real life. Can't capture any essence or resemblence when copying, so I just stick to what's inside my head.
Ed
BryceMcBryde
Member
usually its making things either too small or too large by accident then having to start over to make the proportions correct. but you're right, bob ross is a good teacher
I find my drawings just resemble nothing like the reality they're based off. It's infuriating, and art should be relaxing. Besides, what exists in reality is fine as is - in my mind there's no need to mimic it. Even artists who perfect the craft, like the hyperrealist artists - I can appreciate the technical prowess, but I just find immitation art quite dull. Beauty and realism aside, it just does nothing to inspire me.
For me, I'd rather just make things up in my head and put them to paper. They never look how I envision in my mind's eye, but that's fine. I just make it up as I go along.
Ed
For me, I'd rather just make things up in my head and put them to paper. They never look how I envision in my mind's eye, but that's fine. I just make it up as I go along.
Ed
BryceMcBryde
Member
I looked at your art and I really liked it, ed
Its only because I've spent so so long practicing, and also kinda because i'm one of those "gifted" peeps, but I got so good at it because of one thing that too many others trying to either force themselves to learn how to get better or learn by watching alone and never practicing enough always seem to forget about:
Shapes, lines, perspectives, colors and all other forms of art are literally all around you. Every basic AND advanced element of art in every one of its forms, whether it is a drawing, painting, a sculpture, chalk, or others of those things combined, both comes from AND in many ways creates the environments we perceive to be part of everyday life. Squares give us buildings, boxes and containers we keep our belongings in. Circles make up the wheels of a car, which may show the faint hints of other circles used to shape it, among other squares to keep its shape compatible with the contours of land and terrain; triangles are used for arrows that point us in the right direction...
See where I'm getting at?
Here's what Im getting at: an art teacher may do well introducing you to the BASICS of drawing or painting; they will show you the basics of using such basic shapes and forms of contours to create easy, beginner level drawings if you are starting out... But then, as you grow as their student, the critique you are not ready for until you are around their own age, possibly, will then become how they prefer to teach you their lessons; because as the differences between a student's preference of creation and the teacher's demands for such a preference will eventually become obvious -- where they first welcomed you to the art of creation with a kind voice and a smile, as you reach your peak, they become strict and demanding, never satisfied with how talented you are becoming and instead expecting "perfect" each and every time. This is why art class quickly becomes Hell for elementary students and onward; they are tricked into hating their own imperfections and begin chasing the white hare down a rabbit hole we all had to climb out of.
To make a long story short my advice is this: DO NOT TRY TO BE PERFECT!! Now, I'm not talking about the definition of "perfection" in terms of creating art, there's really nothing wrong with that if that's how you feel it looks. But I'm speaking of LITERAL "perfect" because we as human bodies CANNOT EVER be perfect, as God did not intend us to be that way.
So when you are drawing or painting or making your art, however you prefer it to look and whatever your style may be, if you finish and it looks *bad* to you, it's alright if you feel like throwing it away. It doesn't mean you "suck", it just means you tried something out and it didnt quite work; but before you do discard it, take the time to study it a little, look over the lines and shapes you may have gotten wrong, and instead of immediately trying again, just take a break and meditate on it, think long, but not hard, about how you WANTED it to look, take a hot shower with it in your mind.
Remember those two things: don't strive for "perfect" strive for perfecTION instead, and think long, but not hard.
Shapes, lines, perspectives, colors and all other forms of art are literally all around you. Every basic AND advanced element of art in every one of its forms, whether it is a drawing, painting, a sculpture, chalk, or others of those things combined, both comes from AND in many ways creates the environments we perceive to be part of everyday life. Squares give us buildings, boxes and containers we keep our belongings in. Circles make up the wheels of a car, which may show the faint hints of other circles used to shape it, among other squares to keep its shape compatible with the contours of land and terrain; triangles are used for arrows that point us in the right direction...
See where I'm getting at?
Here's what Im getting at: an art teacher may do well introducing you to the BASICS of drawing or painting; they will show you the basics of using such basic shapes and forms of contours to create easy, beginner level drawings if you are starting out... But then, as you grow as their student, the critique you are not ready for until you are around their own age, possibly, will then become how they prefer to teach you their lessons; because as the differences between a student's preference of creation and the teacher's demands for such a preference will eventually become obvious -- where they first welcomed you to the art of creation with a kind voice and a smile, as you reach your peak, they become strict and demanding, never satisfied with how talented you are becoming and instead expecting "perfect" each and every time. This is why art class quickly becomes Hell for elementary students and onward; they are tricked into hating their own imperfections and begin chasing the white hare down a rabbit hole we all had to climb out of.
To make a long story short my advice is this: DO NOT TRY TO BE PERFECT!! Now, I'm not talking about the definition of "perfection" in terms of creating art, there's really nothing wrong with that if that's how you feel it looks. But I'm speaking of LITERAL "perfect" because we as human bodies CANNOT EVER be perfect, as God did not intend us to be that way.
So when you are drawing or painting or making your art, however you prefer it to look and whatever your style may be, if you finish and it looks *bad* to you, it's alright if you feel like throwing it away. It doesn't mean you "suck", it just means you tried something out and it didnt quite work; but before you do discard it, take the time to study it a little, look over the lines and shapes you may have gotten wrong, and instead of immediately trying again, just take a break and meditate on it, think long, but not hard, about how you WANTED it to look, take a hot shower with it in your mind.
Remember those two things: don't strive for "perfect" strive for perfecTION instead, and think long, but not hard.
It took basically my entire life to develop art skills that I was satisfied with, and I'm still constantly learning new techniques and improving.
Progress is usually a lifelong thing, most artists won't reach a point where they feel like there's nothing that can be improved or learned.
Progress is usually a lifelong thing, most artists won't reach a point where they feel like there's nothing that can be improved or learned.
Something I learned with art, is that there's a point when it can be a good idea to just sort stop questioning it and just kind of roll with it.
I don't know if you might have seen this already, but a couple of months ago I posted this:
www.autismforums.com
That there, I did that just... out of nowhere. I'd been getting kind of frustrated up to that point, with nobody in the area to teach me stuff (and finding it hard to learn online). Eventually, I hit a point where I'm just like "heck with it, I'm just going to sit down with this idea and roll with it and however it comes out is how it comes out" and then that drawing was the result. It's the best thing I've made.
I ended up making a second image of that character, which I've also shown on the forum here, but that one was not quite as good as the first, at least not in my opinion. I tried perspective and tried drawing digitally with my iPad instead of with colored pencils, so the resulting image seemed a bit awkward to me. Everyone I've shown it to seems to like it though, so... I guess it worked out? And I learned a lot in the process of doing it. But it only happened because, like with the first image, I just sort went and did it, not worrying too much about skill.
Sometimes you have to also not fret too much about certain details. Like, I look at those, and other stuff I've made, and... I cant draw a straight line or curve to save my life. It's always a little wobbly. It's noticeable in *everything* I make that isnt digital (because an app like Procreate can un-wobble lines for me). But when I was talking about this to my therapist recently, she showed me a couple of paintings/drawings by someone who she said is pretty well known, but who does things in a very different way than many artists. That person's stuff looks just as wobbly as mine, but instead of fretting about it (as I'd been doing) they clearly just leaned into it and ran with it, and the resulting pictures were pretty darned nice, albeit definitely unusual. But being unusual made them striking and noticeable. That was a bit of a lesson for me (and one that I didn't expect to get during a therapy session).
I dunno, that's just my thoughts on it.
I don't know if you might have seen this already, but a couple of months ago I posted this:
My best bit of art so far!
Okay look at this: Just like I say every time, this took absolutely forever. I did it all in one night again, I really need to stop doing that. I'll regret that tomorrow. I have named her Iris. Not for any specific reason, just "because". The lighting is bad, so it looks darker than it...
www.autismforums.com
That there, I did that just... out of nowhere. I'd been getting kind of frustrated up to that point, with nobody in the area to teach me stuff (and finding it hard to learn online). Eventually, I hit a point where I'm just like "heck with it, I'm just going to sit down with this idea and roll with it and however it comes out is how it comes out" and then that drawing was the result. It's the best thing I've made.
I ended up making a second image of that character, which I've also shown on the forum here, but that one was not quite as good as the first, at least not in my opinion. I tried perspective and tried drawing digitally with my iPad instead of with colored pencils, so the resulting image seemed a bit awkward to me. Everyone I've shown it to seems to like it though, so... I guess it worked out? And I learned a lot in the process of doing it. But it only happened because, like with the first image, I just sort went and did it, not worrying too much about skill.
Sometimes you have to also not fret too much about certain details. Like, I look at those, and other stuff I've made, and... I cant draw a straight line or curve to save my life. It's always a little wobbly. It's noticeable in *everything* I make that isnt digital (because an app like Procreate can un-wobble lines for me). But when I was talking about this to my therapist recently, she showed me a couple of paintings/drawings by someone who she said is pretty well known, but who does things in a very different way than many artists. That person's stuff looks just as wobbly as mine, but instead of fretting about it (as I'd been doing) they clearly just leaned into it and ran with it, and the resulting pictures were pretty darned nice, albeit definitely unusual. But being unusual made them striking and noticeable. That was a bit of a lesson for me (and one that I didn't expect to get during a therapy session).
I dunno, that's just my thoughts on it.
It has taken me a while to gain skills, I am still learning too.
I can so some things well, others not so well and am still growing and I am in no way perfect at the skills but still very creative and artistic
I love my art but in some ways I wish I could screw it up and throw in it the bin, each single picture
And never look at it again.
Because then maybe I'd stop being so screwed over and God would see my pain.
Sometimes I wish u could rid my life of it all abc throw it in the the garbage just like music too
Because it has caused nothing but a lifetime of grief that and my relationship with God.
And I get scared I will get so mad and hurt that I will rip paintings up because I have done it before.
It it hard having disabilities and being told the way you feel is wrong and not understand how anything is right
If it was just a matter of practice it might be more predictable, but I believe there is also an element of innate talent. Or put another way, how well is your particular brain set up to do this skill.
So I would say you will see improvement directly related to how much you practice, but there is a unknown factor involved.
But as a practical example. Several years ago I started sculpting on a daily basis. I remember noticing distinct inprovements, like I had without a doubt stepped up a notch (ie fair to good) after about 9 months. Then another step up around nine months after that. Those aren't exact times. Just my best guess in retrospect.
I think I have some talent, but not a large ammount like the really skilled artists you see. But I was able thru constant practice to make definate improvement. Enough to be completely satisfied with the work.
So I would say you will see improvement directly related to how much you practice, but there is a unknown factor involved.
But as a practical example. Several years ago I started sculpting on a daily basis. I remember noticing distinct inprovements, like I had without a doubt stepped up a notch (ie fair to good) after about 9 months. Then another step up around nine months after that. Those aren't exact times. Just my best guess in retrospect.
I think I have some talent, but not a large ammount like the really skilled artists you see. But I was able thru constant practice to make definate improvement. Enough to be completely satisfied with the work.
It did not take long at all for me as I already had fine and gross motor skills, self-motivation, patience, the ability to see detail, analyze,, the ability to prioritize, apply and act on what I learned, and I had good memory skills, too. I also have a creative side with a desire improve on things I see as well. So, once I saw some popular artist paint landscapes and seascapes at that time, I created my first painting a few episodes after watching those.
The only difficulty was redoing parts of the paintings that I wanted to be done better, as I want perfect scenes, the right amount of balance, the right colors, the right number of images, the right focal point, and the right distance, shadows, contrast, and so forth. Although perfectionism I see sometimes as a superpower, at other times I see it as a curse, if I do not get it great to my liking the first time, then I could need more and more revisions, which means more and more time. And more and more messes, then more stress, which can be motivating to me too though..
And then the cycle continues, if I have the time for that.
The only difficulty was redoing parts of the paintings that I wanted to be done better, as I want perfect scenes, the right amount of balance, the right colors, the right number of images, the right focal point, and the right distance, shadows, contrast, and so forth. Although perfectionism I see sometimes as a superpower, at other times I see it as a curse, if I do not get it great to my liking the first time, then I could need more and more revisions, which means more and more time. And more and more messes, then more stress, which can be motivating to me too though..
And then the cycle continues, if I have the time for that.
tkcartoonist
Tunes and Toons
I wouldn't call myself the greatest or anything, but as someone who's been a cartoonist most of his life, I know my art improved greatly when I started getting looser in the pencil stage. I used to have practically an iron grip while drawing, and while it can still be like that, I save that for when I'm doing inks. My sketches, however, can look like a chaotic mess.
BryceMcBryde
Member
I appreciate the advice all of you have given me
BryceMcBryde
Member
Not sure I can offer anything of use but I will tell you of my experiences with teaching myself to put lines on paper that please me. That is what it boils down to in the most concrete way. It matters not what others think as long as it makes you feel good when you look at it.
The other thing you need to cultivate is blocking your own expectations and judgements. Those can inhibit as well as create within you the thought that you will never be any good at it. There is a certain confidence in your abilities that you must develop over time. Here is my own path to what I prefer to look at as collective doodling (you can see examples of what I mean in the thread Autistic Doodler over in the Visual arts forum on this site).
I was never all that interested in drawing early on. I had one or two semesters of mechanical drawing (i.e. drafting), but that was it until I was working a job in Amsterdam when I was 28. There I had the good fortune to see great works of art up close (Rembrandts, Van Goghs, and others) that ignited something in me. Photo reproductions of the paintings that I saw do not have the same emotional impact. Van Gogh's pen and ink sketches really ignited my interest in that form of drawing.
When I returned to the states, I went out and bought myself a sketch pad and started experimenting, slowly teaching myself by just letting my mind guide the pen, not trying to force anything. I would devote spare time to this and found it relaxing. The relaxing part is key; dropping your expectations and not trying to force things in a direction you are not yet ready to explore.
It took me years to gain a certain amount of control of line and form. That comes easily to some, but anyone can teach themselves to draw (I found Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain very useful in helping me remove mental blocks). It was quite a while before I was able to please myself even though I received compliments on some things that I found less than pleasing to my eye.
My media has always been pen and ink on art board. I draw through a process of accretion (many intricate but unique doodles that at there best fit together in interesting ways, mindscapes if you will). It has always been about offering something that can intrigue, evoke, or otherwise offer something that is different to everyone who views it. Do not let your own expectations of what art is, or should be, inhibit you.
Build confidence in yourself slowly by experimenting. What is it you are looking to do with it? If you can evoke a feeling in yourself when looking at something you draw, then you will most likely evoke a response in others as well. Do not be timid in showing something you like to others for feedback and then do not let any comments pro or con affect you too much. For me it is always been about satisfying myself. Even the recognized greats of the art world painted over canvases that were, for them, failed exercises.
If you are like me and not born with a built in hand-eye coordination that gives one an edge, it is practice, practice, practice. Connect to your feelings and let them express themselves in what you draw then build on that.
Drawing for me is relaxing and allows me to tune the world out. One of my doodles can take me months and in the end may work or be an utter failure in my eyes, but it is all useful as it improves one's control of line and may ignite ideas that take one to another level. Time is not an enemy and looking at what you draw over time will help improve your sense of perspective and improve your control.
Sorry for my somewhat impressionistic response. It all comes down to you connecting with your inner artist and observer. Let your emotions take control and guide your mind. Try not to be too judgmental of the results. Drawing, for me, relieves stress and leads to some interesting results on occasion.
All the best to you and your pursuits.
The other thing you need to cultivate is blocking your own expectations and judgements. Those can inhibit as well as create within you the thought that you will never be any good at it. There is a certain confidence in your abilities that you must develop over time. Here is my own path to what I prefer to look at as collective doodling (you can see examples of what I mean in the thread Autistic Doodler over in the Visual arts forum on this site).
I was never all that interested in drawing early on. I had one or two semesters of mechanical drawing (i.e. drafting), but that was it until I was working a job in Amsterdam when I was 28. There I had the good fortune to see great works of art up close (Rembrandts, Van Goghs, and others) that ignited something in me. Photo reproductions of the paintings that I saw do not have the same emotional impact. Van Gogh's pen and ink sketches really ignited my interest in that form of drawing.
When I returned to the states, I went out and bought myself a sketch pad and started experimenting, slowly teaching myself by just letting my mind guide the pen, not trying to force anything. I would devote spare time to this and found it relaxing. The relaxing part is key; dropping your expectations and not trying to force things in a direction you are not yet ready to explore.
It took me years to gain a certain amount of control of line and form. That comes easily to some, but anyone can teach themselves to draw (I found Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain very useful in helping me remove mental blocks). It was quite a while before I was able to please myself even though I received compliments on some things that I found less than pleasing to my eye.
My media has always been pen and ink on art board. I draw through a process of accretion (many intricate but unique doodles that at there best fit together in interesting ways, mindscapes if you will). It has always been about offering something that can intrigue, evoke, or otherwise offer something that is different to everyone who views it. Do not let your own expectations of what art is, or should be, inhibit you.
Build confidence in yourself slowly by experimenting. What is it you are looking to do with it? If you can evoke a feeling in yourself when looking at something you draw, then you will most likely evoke a response in others as well. Do not be timid in showing something you like to others for feedback and then do not let any comments pro or con affect you too much. For me it is always been about satisfying myself. Even the recognized greats of the art world painted over canvases that were, for them, failed exercises.
If you are like me and not born with a built in hand-eye coordination that gives one an edge, it is practice, practice, practice. Connect to your feelings and let them express themselves in what you draw then build on that.
Drawing for me is relaxing and allows me to tune the world out. One of my doodles can take me months and in the end may work or be an utter failure in my eyes, but it is all useful as it improves one's control of line and may ignite ideas that take one to another level. Time is not an enemy and looking at what you draw over time will help improve your sense of perspective and improve your control.
Sorry for my somewhat impressionistic response. It all comes down to you connecting with your inner artist and observer. Let your emotions take control and guide your mind. Try not to be too judgmental of the results. Drawing, for me, relieves stress and leads to some interesting results on occasion.
All the best to you and your pursuits.
Last edited:
BryceMcBryde
Member
thank you, richelle
I would have to agree with this 110%.
It's normal for artists to always feel down on themselves about their art skills (or lack thereof), but so many use this as a means of outdoing themselves over and over again, and eventually outdoing their peers. Some also give up, but when you stay on track and continue the adventure, you outlast everyone.
I never got good at traditional art like I had originally planned on, but at this point I'm so glad that I blazed my own trail instead. Your journey / adventure is yours, and you can combine disciplines and techniques to create artwork that only you can really create, or consistently create. At some point, you'll realize that there really is no other you, and your style isn't really replaceable.
Although it might sound depressing, I didn't start making art that I actually liked until about 20 years into my journey (aka: very recently), but it's not about the destination, because there's only one certain destination in life and we all know what that is. A 21+ year journey has changed me like nothing else, and I think you'll be able to say the same thing (OP, and everyone else), and even supersede that number.
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