NT and Aspie Communication

[icesyckel]

No, a corpus luteum is a cyclic phenomenon. I could have also said somthing about a rapid reduction is your serum progesterone. I was not implying menopause but simply PMT. A prime cause for grumpiness in nubiles...

My friend, one of those social norms we sometimes dont get: you cant just talk about a lady's cycle. It doesnt matter if you have valid science. Its just not something you reference in a public forum. I learned this one the hard way.

 

[o2tosin]

you cant just talk about a lady's cycle

Mate, I just did. If it were not for this phenomenon, we would not be here In high school, always got a reaction wandering around sucking my mates used tea bag with a smear of tomato sauce on my mouth.

 

[Effy]

Learn about it. The more information someone has on something, the more informed they are. The more informed someone is, the more awareness someone has, and they may have more understanding. I was so lost in 2012, when I had no idea why I was how I was. Information does a lot for a person. It's taught me that acceptance is the key to keeping me alive, though that's probably morbid, and I feel the more informed people are, the easier they are to communicate with. I have better conversations and relationships with people who know about my mental illnesses, or are at least open to learning about it. I mean, I willingly link to free resources, mind you, and do most people read them? No, no, they do not.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Can we all just forget the last subject please? Thank you
(Oh, there's a couple of threads going on right now about the last subject which I believe the women of this forum wouldn't mind if you have input.)
I do apologize o2tosin. I was thinking you meant menopause. I don't mind talking about anything medical and if there's a misunderstanding, well, we're in the right thread, right?
I'm going to exercise now with Tony Horton. Icesyckel, did you get back to your workout?

 

[Effy]

I was replying to the original question.
>.>
Even if it may have shifted, I felt like adding to the original one. It's also 17 pages long.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

My friend, one of those social norms we sometimes dont get: you cant just talk about a lady's cycle. It doesnt matter if you have valid science. Its just not something you reference in a public forum. I learned this one the hard way.

I don't see a problem about the subject, just don't ask a person what would be personal to them. Keep it broad unless that person wants to offer up their own personal information.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Mate, I just did. If it were not for this phenomenon, we would not be here In high school, always got a reaction wandering around sucking my mates used tea bag with a smear of tomato sauce on my mouth.

Huh. I must say you do have a way with words.

 

[icesyckel]

Can we all just forget the last subject please? Thank you
(Oh, there's a couple of threads going on right now about the last subject which I believe the women of this forum wouldn't mind if you have input.)
I do apologize o2tosin. I was thinking you meant menopause. I don't mind talking about anything medical and if there's a misunderstanding, well, we're in the right thread, right?
I'm going to exercise now with Tony Horton. Icesyckel, did you get back to your workout?

Still nursing a cracked rib and possibly a contused diaphram. I will get back to it tho. Tried a pullup last night ... Bad idea

 

[Harrison]

Learn about it. The more information someone has on something, the more informed they are. The more informed someone is, the more awareness someone has, and they may have more understanding. I was so lost in 2012, when I had no idea why I was how I was. Information does a lot for a person. It's taught me that acceptance is the key to keeping me alive, though that's probably morbid, and I feel the more informed people are, the easier they are to communicate with. I have better conversations and relationships with people who know about my mental illnesses, or are at least open to learning about it. I mean, I willingly link to free resources, mind you, and do most people read them? No, no, they do not.

Indeed they don't. For the last few years I have tried to get my NT 'friends' to brush up on AS to no avail. I have spent that time trying to figure out how they function differently to me, so I expected the same in return.

Mostly they brushed me off with 'maybe you could get counselling?'. I've given up.

 

[Judge]

Indeed they don't. For the last few years I have tried to get my NT 'friends' to brush up on AS to no avail. I have spent that time trying to figure out how they function differently to me, so I expected the same in return.

Mostly they brushed me off with 'maybe you could get counselling?'. I've given up.

Yep. I think what passively remains in the minds of most NTs is the "when in Rome" mentality. That they in a huge majority naturally default to the notion is that it is ALWAYS the Aspie who should adjust. Yet NTs don't realize the limitations we have in attempting to make such "adjustments". That some things we can work on, and others are neurologically impossible to overcome. That it isn't an "attitude" issue alone

I believe that it is unlikely for most NTs to willingly come halfway in this equation, simply because in their minds they don't have to. That the impetus for change will always likely be our burden- not theirs. Very frustrating.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Still nursing a cracked rib and possibly a contused diaphram. I will get back to it tho. Tried a pullup last night ... Bad idea

You have a cracked rib?! Did you have to go to the hospital or something? You have to keep deep breathing (even though it hurts) so you won't get pneumonia - use a pillow for splinting.

And I've included a site that I use often with exercises you can do while healing. (Web MD is good too)



Safe Exercises When You Have Fractured Ribs | LIVESTRONG.COM

 

[o2tosin]

Still nursing a cracked rib and possibly a contused diaphram. I will get back to it tho. Tried a pullup last night ... Bad idea

Tell me more- what were you attempting a pull up on?

Americans love the word contusion- I only ever use bruise...

What are the symptoms/ signs of a "contused diaphragm"? Just asking as I honestly have never heard of this.

I would imagine it might be a post mortem finding...

 

[icesyckel]

It is indeed amazing how a large nation comprised of fifty states is filled with people who all love to use certain words. We're so homogeneous. /Sarcasm

I use contusion when the word "bruise" seems insufficient in terms of severity. I do realize they are synonymous term, so to be clearer I think I sustained a significant bruise on my diaphragm or in that area because the pain traces that specific anatomical region of my body, yet I do not appear to have any internal bleeding/effusion. I am not a medical expert at all, so I could be incorrect. Possibly it is something else stretching laterally over the same area, but I don't know what else it would be - again, not a doctor. Could be referred pain from something else in an entirely different area.

Lastly, I was attempting to pull up on a pull-up bar I have hung in a threshold in my apartment when the pain got worse. Over time, though, my pain level has improved. Now I only experience pain with certain movements, where as before it was always present but worsened with certain movements.

 

[icesyckel]

You have a cracked rib?! Did you have to go to the hospital or something? You have to keep deep breathing (even though it hurts) so you won't get pneumonia - use a pillow for splinting.

And I've included a site that I use often with exercises you can do while healing. (Web MD is good too)



Safe Exercises When You Have Fractured Ribs | LIVESTRONG.COM

My psych is an MD - he told me the body provides a natural cast for the ribs somehow and that, so long as I am improving with no other signs of internal problems, that I should be fine in a few more weeks. Your concern is greatly appreciated, though. Also, I'll check out the website.

 

[o2tosin]

I do realize they are synonymous term, so to be clearer I think I sustained a significant bruise on my diaphragm or in that area because the pain traces that specific anatomical region of

+3 Aspie points for icesyckel

 

[Grumpy Cat]

It is indeed amazing how a large nation comprised of fifty states is filled with people who all love to use certain words. We're so homogeneous. /Sarcasm

I use contusion when the word "bruise" seems insufficient in terms of severity. I do realize they are synonymous term, so to be clearer I think I sustained a significant bruise on my diaphragm or in that area because the pain traces that specific anatomical region of my body, yet I do not appear to have any internal bleeding/effusion. I am not a medical expert at all, so I could be incorrect. Possibly it is something else stretching laterally over the same area, but I don't know what else it would be - again, not a doctor. Could be referred pain from something else in an entirely different area.

Lastly, I was attempting to pull up on a pull-up bar I have hung in a threshold in my apartment when the pain got worse. Over time, though, my pain level has improved. Now I only experience pain with certain movements, where as before it was always present but worsened with certain movements.

"It is indeed amazing how a large nation comprised of fifty states is filled with people who all love to use certain words. We're so homogeneous. /Sarcasm"

Aspies do "sarcasm?'

 

[o2tosin]

Icesyckel, I am Australian, and I feel sorry for the people of the USAR er USA.

Often my misinterpretation of NT happenings ends up being unintentionally sarcastic.

My lack of tact knows no bounds- I am awestruck to meet someone less PC than myself. |~:

 

[May Black]

Sometimes I yell and people still ignore me...
I wonder sometimes why everyone else, including my family, has a really loud and grating voice (it's like microphone feedback when they yell), and I have a naturally soft one, apparently even if I talk more loudly. This might be a silly question, but is it possible that growing up talking less than other people, as I did, can lead to this? Or am I just made this way? I've also noticed that I get a sore throat & jaw if I talk for a long time, like last month when I hung out with a couple of friends at my brother's graduation party, and it takes a while for it to go away even if I drink a lot of water. Is that normal for people who aren't used to talking a lot?

My boyfriend has a very soft voice, it's not quiet like yours, but he never yells. He says it hurts his throat. I could never understand this.

I've spent most of my life wondering and asking why people always ignore me & talk over me (then repeat what I said & take credit for my ideas). No one has ever been able to answer me, though most fell so deep into vehement denial and hostile defensiveness that they wouldn't even try. I've also been very careful to observe the behaviors of those who aren't ignored or talked over, and I've tried emulating their behavior. I've tried varying my tone of voice and inflection in every way possible, and I've tried the simplistic advice of people who don't understand because it never happens to them. Nothing has ever worked, and I now know the reason why: it's because we're Aspie. There's nothing that we can do to change the behavior of others who don't (and won't) understand us.

I am going to call you out on this, and please don't get angry until you finished reading the other quote too.
You do not know their reasons. Unless you only interact with assholes, which for your own sake I'm hoping is not the case, you should not see the worst in people at all times. Having read the thread, I assume you have a history of feeling misunderstood and misinterpreted, probably rightfully so. However, going around thinking people act out of malice will get you no where. Most NT are not capable of analyzing a situation the way you do. They never had to and never bothered to do so. If you asked them to explain why they act a certain way, they will not be able to tell you. Have you ever observed how NTs interact with each other? If an NT's interrupted, they'll more than likely get angry and react in the very moment it's happening. I'm guessing that's not a case with you. Your friends might actually not even notice they interrupted you. Pointing it out for them afterwards when they no longer can correct it and let you speak instead will leave them feeling ashamed, a normal NT reaction to that is getting defensive.

I'm going to give you some NT advice here, do what you want with it. If I were interrupted, I'd try saying "Hey! I was actually talking!" In the loudest way you're capable of, if you tend to speak quietly. If you have hard time controlling your voice, make sure it doesn't come out as yelling.

Communication problems have plagued me as well, since whenever I ask a question people seem to read in some measure of judgment or aggression, when it's simply just a question. When they refuse to answer (but attack me instead) it feels like they see me as less-than-human and not deserving of communication, which hurts deeply.

You word things in a way that I personally perceive as very negative. You used quite a few strong words in that short text. "Nothing has ever worked" is a way more negative statement than "generally it works poorly", where the message is practically the same. I'd assume that's where your problem lies. You might want to look into it.

One more ting: You're wasting your intelligence if you choose to be condescending, even if you feel it is due.

I appreciated the later post of yours whole lot more.

OMG!!! King Oni, my friend said the same thing about our last disagreement - "We'll have to agree to disagree". I was like "What? What does that mean?" I had said that our disagreement had hurt my feelings. Normally as an NT and a woman, I deal in "feelings" when someone close to me upsets me - other people I deal "logically" and will apologize only if I'm in the wrong or I can tell they are needing me to apologize. For me, having to ask for an apology means it's not sincere. With the "We'll have to agree to disagree" it feels to me that the disagreement is not addressed. I need closure on a disagreement. Take me and my friend -- if the situation comes up again that caused our disagreement, am I supposed to get mad again? That's what compromising is for - even if we go with what he thinks is right I need to know we have come to that compromise so I know not to have my feelings hurt again. I don't know how to do "We'll have to agree to disagree".

You need to approach this completely different. There is no right or wrong, and no compromise. You have to accept he won't be able to give you certain things, and he needs to stretch to justify your needs as much as he's able to. You will need to help each other out with the process of it.

I will try to explain this on an example you might relate to.
I told my boyfriend I wished he'd be more expressive about his feelings sometimes, to which he told me that he had already told me he loved me, and that it applied until he said otherwise. So here I am, telling him how I feel and he completely denies to give me what I'm rightfully asking for. I don't doubt that he loves me, he's moving to a different continent for me, I just plain like to hear it in words sometimes.
Now, I could get angry, and if he was NT, I probably would, but I realize he doesn't even understand he's hurting me with his words.
So instead of getting angry, I will calmly tell him that it's not a very nice thing to say, and ask if he can see why I'm saying that. Generally, the answer will be no, then I try my best to explain why his words make me feel a certain way.
In this case, I'd ask him if he likes when I tell him I love him, which he does, and that way make him understand that I like it too. That it's not just a way sharing information, but also a way to create a stronger emotional bond. As a result, he can sometimes tell me I'm all right too, and that's good enough for me.

The situation that caused disagreement will come up again and you should not get angry. It will be altered, because your friend has learned that that particular action will cause a reaction, but he's probably not capable of learning the principle behind it. My boyfriend does that. We've been friends for years before we because involved and we both know the patterns by heart now. It no longer causes arguments. If you work on it, I'm sure you can get there too.

Another thing that bothers me is how quickly Aspie men (no experience with Aspie women yet) are so able to drop friends so quick without thinking twice. If a friend can be dropped that quick out of your life, was it ever a REAL friendship? And after seeing this happen, I'm afraid to tell my Aspie friend that I have now if I'm upset at all for fear that he'll just cut me out of his life. Are all Aspie men like this?

My boyfriend acts this way sometimes. If I bring up a problem (like us having lived on different continents) that I have no real answer to and want to resolve with him, he might tell me that if that's how I feel, maybe it's right to just end it. I thought he's being passive aggressive at first, but having discussed it with him, I've realized it's not it. I will ask him if that's what he wants, he says no, but he can't see a solution and if I can't see it either, then he doesn't know what else to do. I do not understand the principle behind this though, if anyone would be kind to elaborate.

Sorry..I'm cracking up over some of this given my rather weak cooking abilities.

Reminds me of making my "Beef Alfredo".....where it does count in stirring the noodles once they go into a boiling mixture for at least seven minutes, then let it simmer for two minutes. I know what happens if you only occasionally stir it. I know what happens if you switch the amount of water for milk into the mixture. And I know what happens if you do it all without actually bringing it to a boil.

Thank you so much for this! I can't stop laughing.

I tried teaching my boyfriend to cook coffee. I thought I was being very pedagogical, starting with taking out the cup, describing all the steps, it was working fine till one day. He was making me coffee and I was hearing those odd, splashing sounds from the kitchen and I could smell the coffee all the way to the living room. What happened was I had washed the kettle earlier and didn't place it back on the coffee maker. His response was "You didn't tell me I need to check if the kettle is there."

I've only gotten to page 7, but Firefox has crashed on me once and I don't want to have to rewrite everything, so here are some thoughts so far.

 

[icesyckel]

"It is indeed amazing how a large nation comprised of fifty states is filled with people who all love to use certain words. We're so homogeneous. /Sarcasm"

Aspies do "sarcasm?'

I used to struggle with it a lot, actually, but I grew up in a VERY sarcastic family, and so it was sort of sink or swim. One part of being an aspie, according to my psych, is that it is a place on the spectrum where many are able to learn, adapt, and establish coping mechanisms to overcome issues like a natural inclination towards literalism. IQ affects this to some extent, as does having someone NT who is willing to take the time to teach you how to spot it (eg my rents). According to my psych, anxiety (comorbid) can motivate the leArning. We discussed this yesterday, actually. New psych. Actually like this one. He uses reason/logic I can follow. Last guy just talked out of his ass.

 

[May Black]

I HAVE ANOTHER ASPIE QUESTION TOO:

If an Aspie has a friend or significant other, is the Aspie interested in their friend's/sig other's interests and hobbies and what is generally going on in the other person's life or does the Aspie care just about their own interests, hobbies and life?

It took few years before my boyfriend first asked me a personal question. He still doesn't do it very often, but he always asks how my day was when I come home from work.

Hmmm, but for the aspie, if it's uninvited it feels very awkward, maybe even fake and manipulative.

I will tell my boyfriend how I feel, and sometimes even that I want a hug, he'll try hugging me, but more often than not it will come out quite awkward. I find it's better I just go hug him instead.

I can see what you're saying and you don't know how many times I've wished I could do that. My fix for that is to always hug when I see her upset. No it's not always comfortable, but at least that way I cover the bases. There have been times, though, where she gets angry at me for trying to hug her, so I haven't figured that out yet lol.

Can you distinguish whether she's angry or sad? Sad = hug, angry = wait for ten minutes (she might have a different time frame for that) then hug.

4. When I ask a "why" question (e.g. "Why is that rude?"), I've learned that most NTs take that as me defending my statement. But that's not the case. When I ask "why," I genuinely want to know the reason. Now, if you don't HAVE a reason, then my next argument may be "Then how do you know it was rude?" and that could lead to an understanding that it wasn't rude. But I'm not arguing. I just want to know. And, in my mind, dismissing my question by saying, "Because people don't like it" (or some similar circular logic) IS rude. If you really don't know why it's considered rude, then just say so. "I don't know why that's considered rude. It's just one of those silly social conventions that people are expected to follow." You'll not only win my agreement (that it's silly), but also my compliance.

If an NT person asked why in that situation it would be because he was continuing to be rude. In that context it will be interpreted as "Oh really? You think THAT was rude?!" If another person perceives what you say as rude, in NT world, you first apologize and explain it wasn't intended. Then you can ask a question and expect your conversation partner to be willing to explain. Unless you are looking for a conflict, if an NT person tells you they perceive something a certain way, don't question it, acknowledge their feelings first, then ask for explanation. There is great logic in it actually. They are telling you how THEY perceive something, and they have all the right in the world to do that, regardless if you agree with them or not.

There are plenty smart NT folks who still don't understand some of the things I say. Often it is not that I need to "come down a few notches" to their level so much as it is like I am speaking a foreign language. Because I don't understand what they don't understand, you end up sometimes in a situation where neither person really knows what question to ask in order to get closer to a mutual understanding. Admittedly, I don't have this problem as much as I used to when I was younger.

Is it possible you skip steps, because they're obvious to you? Have you tried tracking back to where you lost them?

LOL! That was my college nickname. Oddly enough, I didn't mind it at all,

Mine was sputnik. I wasn't thrilled.

The longer I don't talk to someone my "feelings" for them fade. That's not a friendship to me. In a friendship (IMO for women), women need to communicate more in order to feel a "connection".

This doesn't apply to me at all, I'm female, NT as far as I know, I can go a month without talking to my best friend, it doesn't change the fact we're close friends.

Yep. I think what passively remains in the minds of most NTs is the "when in Rome" mentality. That they in a huge majority naturally default to the notion is that it is ALWAYS the Aspie who should adjust. Yet NTs don't realize the limitations we have in attempting to make such "adjustments". That some things we can work on, and others are neurologically impossible to overcome. That it isn't an "attitude" issue alone

I believe that it is unlikely for most NTs to willingly come halfway in this equation, simply because in their minds they don't have to. That the impetus for change will always likely be our burden- not theirs. Very frustrating.

Most NT don't put effort into trying to figure out how they function, the thought of putting effort into trying to figure out how someone else functions is quite foreign to them.