NT and Aspie Communication

[Grumpy Cat]

When a "new" nurse starts work for the first time, they have to go through what I call "an initiation" where you have to prove yourself to other nurses that you can handle the profession. If you can't hold your own, then you are looked down upon. A lot of times a new nurse won't get the help they need to get out of this "initiation" and will end up losing their job. That's why you try not to ask very many questions.

No, but legal terms are naturally the first that came to mind. They all also had to graduate from undergrad in a variety of fields/disciplines. Also, legal case precedents come up in a variety of factual settings. Some involve disputes between carpenters and others between the government and a business or individual. Some involve crime, and many involve medical terms. For example, every single attorney I personally know would know that hydrocodone and Vicodin are essentially the same thing. Did they learn that in law school? Probably not, but you don't become a practicing attorney if you struggle with vocabulary. Being able to learn and recall new words is just part and parcel of the whole gig.
So what you are saying is that, as a nurse, you are expected to know every diagnosis - even the ones some doctors might not?

 

[Judge]

What I'm saying is that any specialized field (medicine, law, etc) for one to say they don't know something (unless they are a student) is seen as a "weakness". The medical field is very competitive (I'm sure law is too) and I have NEVER heard a doctor or nurse come right out and say they don't know something (they go look it up on their own.) Everyone is always trying to outdo everyone else with how much they know and how high their degrees are. It would be nice if you could just ask someone about something that you didn't know, but you run the risk of embarrassment. That's what I hate about the medical profession. I asked a "seasoned" nurse this weekend about something in private because I knew that I could trust her, but I've been around to see how nurses will talk about each other and make fun of other nurses for not knowing certain things.

If you couldn't remember something about law that you know you should know, would you ask a colleague?

In that context I'd think your real exposure isn't a conniving or competitive co-worker, but rather your own professional liability, whether one is in a medical or legal profession.

Transparency is always touted as a good thing, but the reality is that it can leave one naked to litigation in the event a lack of knowledge is discovered by a patient, client or third-party investigator representing a potential litigant.

I'd think discretion would always be a wise choice under such circumstances. It's just that between the two professions, I'd think medical issues would be more prone to time-sensitivity rather than legal ones in seeking out the "right" answer one needs.

 

[icesyckel]

If you couldn't remember something about law that you know you should know, would you ask a colleague?

Well, yes. I do this occasionally. To me, that is only logical.

In my experience, most others like to offer help. Yes, we are competitive, but none of us are going to believe we are the superior professional just because someone didn't know a specific word. I suppose if you did it a lot, as in multiple times per day, it could damage your reputation. It would be like you were abusing it rather than studying the material, but only if you did it constantly.

 

[icesyckel]

Transparency is always touted as a good thing, but the reality is that it can leave one naked to litigation in the event a lack of knowledge is discovered by a patient, client or third-party investigator representing a potential litigant.

There is some truth to this, but more for doctors than nurses. Rarely are nurses sued for "malpractice," as doctors are ultimately liable for any professional negligence. There are exceptions, of course, in extreme cases. However, I was implying she should ask the doctor, not the client/patient.

Still, your point is well taken. Broadcasting professional ignorance to clients/patients is certainly a bad idea.

 

[icesyckel]

If you can't hold your own, then you are looked down upon. A lot of times a new nurse won't get the help they need to get out of this "initiation" and will end up losing their job. That's why you try not to ask very many questions.

Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that such a hostile work climate is more likely to cause mistakes and liability than admitting ignorance on a term or needing help, generally. Even new doctors need help to learn their trade. No one graduates school and starts out at a new job as a seasoned veteran. Everyone needs help/training in the beginning.

Of course, I see now the situation is beyond your control, and perhaps you would be well-advised not to ask for help. That is an unfortunate and dangerous situation, however.

 

[Judge]

Still, your point is well taken. Broadcasting professional ignorance to clients/patients is certainly a bad idea.

Not just clients or patients...but to anyone who might inadvertently be listening. No secret as to why morbidity and mortality conferences and blood-borne pathogen reports routinely take place behind closed doors. Discretion is critical.

Insurers are particularly sensitive to such things. (I underwrote commercial/personal property and liability for nearly two decades- including a major hospital in the Bay Area.) Lots of ruinous exposures...but yes- the liability is aimed primarily at physicians as opposed to the nursing staff. Still though, nurses can carry some critical exposures at any given time.

 

[icesyckel]

Discretion is critical.

I hold that as an axiom.

 

[May Black]

May Black, you're an NT, right? I read that you said you also tested high on the Aspie test?

Borderline, so fairly high for an NT, yes. We had the tests at work and all the staff did them for fun. I scored twice as high as all my coworkers, which was a standing joke after that, since I had very easy time making exercises that were well received. I managed to get my class to do a power point presentation of computer games I made up for them based on their special interests in English. Everyone thought I was crazy and it was never gonna work, but we ended up having lot of fun with the project.

I have some Aspie traits, I realized recently for example that I introduce myself to new food by placing it on my plate and not eating it. I will continue doing this for roughly a month, it's completely subconscious. I try to pay attention to it now that I know and I've managed to make myself actually try to eat the food once I take it. It's very hard though, and I think sometimes I rather not take new food in order to avoid having to eat it. I'm not sure that will make any sense to you at all.

I was a weird child. I refused to eat most things, I had favorite clothes and I didn't really want to wear much else, I've always had rather odd interests, I would try to learn languages from my mother's old school books or using dictionaries we had at home for as long as I could read, I love horses and I copied a whole book about horses that I got to borrow from a friend one summer. I didn't really interact with kids when I was little, I didn't find them interesting, I think the closest to playing with dolls I ever got was when I wrote EKG all over my talking doll after having been to the hospital at the age of three. I still get extremely excited about a subject I'm interested in, like grammar or wine and 10 minutes later I notice no one's been listening for a while. I have close friends in RL, that are extremely important to me, we can do small talk, and they will come to me if they have problems that need resolving, but never for comfort. My best friend told me I'm a lot like a guy, I start solving thins instead of just listening. I could go on. I've always been a little off, I guess once I started working with Aspie kids I recognize a lot of my peculiarities in them.

Someone said somewhere it's not about categorizing or putting labels on people, it's more like a scale. I just happen to have a bit more Aspie traits than an average NT. It could also be that being a girl, I never was diagnosed and my NT traits were learned through my upbringing, but honestly I can relate to both worlds about equally much. I consider myself NT.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I hold that as an axiom.

Huh?

 

[icesyckel]

Axiom = proposition/statement that is accepted as evidently and completely true on its face.

Translated: Not only do I agree with Judge's statement about discretion, but anyone other reasonable person would also agree with that statement.

 

[May Black]

Huh?

It's given.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Borderline, so fairly high for an NT, yes. We had the tests at work and all the staff did them for fun. I scored twice as high as all my coworkers, which was a standing joke after that, since I had very easy time making exercises that were well received. I managed to get my class to do a power point presentation of computer games I made up for them based on their special interests in English. Everyone thought I was crazy and it was never gonna work, but we ended up having lot of fun with the project.

I have some Aspie traits, I realized recently for example that I introduce myself to new food by placing it on my plate and not eating it. I will continue doing this for roughly a month, it's completely subconscious. I try to pay attention to it now that I know and I've managed to make myself actually try to eat the food once I take it. It's very hard though, and I think sometimes I rather not take new food in order to avoid having to eat it. I'm not sure that will make any sense to you at all.

I was a weird child. I refused to eat most things, I had favorite clothes and I didn't really want to wear much else, I've always had rather odd interests, I would try to learn languages from my mother's old school books or using dictionaries we had at home for as long as I could read, I love horses and I copied a whole book about horses that I got to borrow from a friend one summer. I didn't really interact with kids when I was little, I didn't find them interesting, I think the closest to playing with dolls I ever got was when I wrote EKG all over my talking doll after having been to the hospital at the age of three. I still get extremely excited about a subject I'm interested in, like grammar or wine and 10 minutes later I notice no one's been listening for a while. I have close friends in RL, that are extremely important to me, we can do small talk, and they will come to me if they have problems that need resolving, but never for comfort. My best friend told me I'm a lot like a guy, I start solving thins instead of just listening. I could go on. I've always been a little off, I guess once I started working with Aspie kids I recognize a lot of my peculiarities in them.

Someone said somewhere it's not about categorizing or putting labels on people, it's more like a scale. I just happen to have a bit more Aspie traits than an average NT. It could also be that being a girl, I never was diagnosed and my NT traits were learned through my upbringing, but honestly I can relate to both worlds about equally much. I consider myself NT.

1) I have close friends in RL, that are extremely important to me, we can do small talk, and they will come to me if they have problems that need resolving, but never for comfort. My best friend told me I'm a lot like a guy, I start solving thins instead of just listening.

I'm not a good consoler either. I think my Ma doesn't like that because she will come to me with a problem and just want sympathy, but I don't do sympathy. I try to solve the problem. And I can't deal with messy emotions with someone wanting to cry on my shoulder.

 

[icesyckel]

Borderline, so fairly high for an NT, yes....scale. I just happen to have a bit more Aspie traits than an average NT... honestly I can relate to both worlds about equally much. I consider myself NT.

Autism is a spectrum disorder, and asperger's generally refers to a place on the spectrum. You could be somewhere on the NT end on the spectrum at the cusp of being autistic, and so your comments are likely spot on. You could be just on the NT side of the border.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Axiom = proposition/statement that is accepted as evidently and completely true on its face.

Translated: Not only do I agree with Judge's statement about discretion, but anyone other reasonable person would also agree with that statement.

I'm just joking with you Mr. Icesyckel. I could have looked it up, but where's the fun in that?

 

[icesyckel]

1) I have close friends in RL, that are extremely important to me, we can do small talk, and they will come to me if they have problems that need resolving, but never for comfort. My best friend told me I'm a lot like a guy, I start solving thins instead of just listening.

You've never struck me as being autistic in any way, but you do certainly have some unique/uncommon traits (but then I supposed you could say that of any NT).

I'm not a good consoler either. I think my Ma doesn't like that because she will come to me with a problem and just want sympathy, but I don't do sympathy. I try to solve the problem. And I can't deal with messy emotions with someone wanting to cry on my shoulder.

This describes almost everyone in my family apart from my wife. No on, NT or otherwise, has a problem with listening to others' problems, but none of us want to listen to people whine unless the person has an interest in discussing solutions to the problem. In fact, I think the NT folks in my family are even less patient about this than I am.

 

[icesyckel]

I'm just joking with you Mr. Icesyckel. I could have looked it up, but where's the fun in that?

Ah - funny. Bear in mind, I have a tendency to presume most questions are intended as posed rather than in jest, barring evidence to the contrary of course. I've trained myself to notice certain facial expressions, and so I am better at spotting jokes in person now that I ever was; however, it can be difficult to pick up subtext in print.

 

[May Black]

I'm not a good consoler either. I think my Ma doesn't like that because she will come to me with a problem and just want sympathy, but I don't do sympathy. I try to solve the problem. And I can't deal with messy emotions with someone wanting to cry on my shoulder.

It's not that I can't deal with them, I don't really find them messy either as there is always a reason behind the feelings. It's more that people who are going through a feeling don't always appreciate to be told why they're feeling a certain way. It's not that I can't relate to the feelings either, because I certainly can, I guess I'm too self absorbed and instead of being able to give them what they need, which is consolation, I give them what I think is best.

Autism is a spectrum disorder, and asperger's generally refers to a place on the spectrum. You could be somewhere on the NT end on the spectrum at the cusp of being autistic, and so your comments are likely spot on. You could be just on the NT side of the border.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I assume myself to be. I'm quite happy just being the little odd me.

 

[icesyckel]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I assume myself to be. I'm quite happy just being the little odd me.

Normal is boring. Odd is interesting. Better to be odd.

 

[Judge]

Maybe some day the DSM will give Neurotypicals their own spectrum of normalcy.

 

[May Black]

Maybe some day the DSM will give Neurotypicals their own spectrum of normalcy.

Can't stop laughing.