Is any one else struggling with a cognitive bias of "Not Feeling Likable"?

[Neri]

I tend to expect that people won't like me and feel an overwhelming sense of cognitive dissonance when they give me feedback that says otherwise. I expect it's part of "Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria" which I feel very strongly.

I have a loving partner now (also neurodivergent Aspie, I suspect ADHD as well, like me) and I can handle his loving feedback, in fact it feels like an essential nutrient or something, and a number of my children give me feedback that I'm a good mum (this isn't the case with all of them, though) but I've become a agoraphobe and I'm trying to address that.

The other side of it is that when people seek out my company, I'm also uncomfortable, as I expect one of us will soon disappoint the other OR, I just feel overwhelmed from the get go.

Because of the way my life has gone, I spent my childhood with a lot of trauma and isolation, then became a extremely busy mum and performance artist. Then breakdowns and burn outs, then mental health recovery circles, then more parenting, parenting, parenting. So I've never had much time to learn how to "socialise" other than in the confines of immediate family.

I'm confused about the backwards and forwards of how "friendship" goes because of my overall focus on my parenting commitments, and my prior tendency to focus on my performance art, when out in any public arena (but that is over, for now -agoraphobia for a number of years).

Being an 2e AuDHDer I am excruciatingly aware of how hyper and "full on" I can be, and having cptsd, I don't have a good background of socialization to fall back on. I tend toward overwhelm and then retreat.

Does anyone relate? I don't think I am as socially awful as I feel inside, but my brain just does a number on me and makes it SO HARD to want to have any kind of social life, or even work life at this point, outside of family commitments. But I do want to work on this. Any feedback, muchly appreciated.

 

[The Pandector]

I tend to expect that people won't like me and feel an overwhelming sense of cognitive dissonance when they give me feedback that says otherwise. I expect it's part of "Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria" which I feel very strongly.

I have a loving partner now (also neurodivergent Aspie, I suspect ADHD as well, like me) and I can handle his loving feedback, in fact it feels like an essential nutrient or something, and a number of my children give me feedback that I'm a good mum (this isn't the case with all of them, though) but I've become a agoraphobe and I'm trying to address that.

The other side of it is that when people seek out my company, I'm also uncomfortable, as I expect one of us will soon disappoint the other OR, I just feel overwhelmed from the get go.

Because of the way my life has gone, I spent my childhood with a lot of trauma and isolation, then became a extremely busy mum and performance artist. Then breakdowns and burn outs, then mental health recovery circles, then more parenting, parenting, parenting. So I've never had much time to learn how to "socialise" other than in the confines of immediate family.

I'm confused about the backwards and forwards of how "friendship" goes because of my overall focus on my parenting commitments, and my prior tendency to focus on my performance art, when out in any public arena (but that is over, for now -agoraphobia for a number of years).

Being an 2e AuDHDer I am excruciatingly aware of how hyper and "full on" I can be, and having cptsd, I don't have a good background of socialization to fall back on. I tend toward overwhelm and then retreat.

Does anyone relate? I don't think I am as socially awful as I feel inside, but my brain just does a number on me and makes it SO HARD to want to have any kind of social life, or even work life at this point, outside of family commitments. But I do want to work on this. Any feedback, muchly appreciated.

I’d never heard of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, but everything you say is very familiar. I’m currently trying to work through this exact problem with my family.

We are in the process of coming back together. When my wife passed, I lost my executive function and any socialization was very difficult as well. Their rejection of me at that time was not at all imagined. But I have suffered all my life for the knowledge that people prefer my absence.

Just a few months back, the tide changed in my sons’ hearts. Maybe I’ve been tortured enough. But with a lifetime of being socially undesirable, I don’t know how to deal with acceptance. I’m just to the point of believing they’re over their huff, but my heart is not responding like I would have it do. Acceptance is scary because, every time, it’s the very last thing before rejection.

 

[Aspychata]

Think what l have discovered, is you can make a friend anywhere. My closest friend , l actually met in exercise class. Lately, l was drawn to go say hi to a lady down the street. She has nine beautiful cats. And she is kinda of cool, from out of state! I was able to be there for her, and that made my problems less in my face. I had to work on getting her to realize, it was possible not to get evicted. We have misery parties, where we can complain about prices, and check in on each other's mental and physical health. I said good bye recently to another friend, because she can be critical and disregard my boundaries. So making friends, is putting yourself out there. Sometimes you have success, sometimes you don't. If you don't feel likable, then what can you do to be more likeable? How can you grow as a person, to attract the type of friend you want?

 

[FoxLovinPat]

Oh I can most definitely relate to all that, and in my case it was so crippling that I didn't have any friends until more recently. Because I thought that if people knew the real me they'd dislike me and judge me for being too different, for not fitting into the normal societal molds. It was honestly a big relief to me once I started making friends, which sadly for me wasn't until my mid 20s, and they seemed to like me for me regardless of the autism and other quirks I have.

I still have times though where I'll wonder if I'm being too annoying or difficult for my friends, or wondering if potential new friends won't be that for long because they'll find some fault in me that they don't like and then it'll be over. I also know I'm not the best at keeping up with friends and I've lost friends simply because I forgot to message them in a loooong time.
Well I say I have friends now but they're all online, I still haven't any in person friends because I'm still afraid of being judged and rejected by people once they learn about the real me.

I feel like my case though the reason behind all of this is because I had a overly critical father who'd call out my flaws and quirks and would try and correct them by telling me not to do such things because "Well if you do that then people will think <insert undesirable social outcome here>", am unfortunately common example of this was, "Don't act like that! People will think you're the R word (he ofc actually used the word) if you act like that!", That being ofc anything that is noticably autistic. As a result ofc I learned to mask really well because I was taught to believe that if I didn't then people would know I'm autistic and judge me for it, you know look down at me as lesser, stupid, Incapable, that sort of thing.

I'm glad I finally managed to get past that enough to make a few friends even if they're all online and I have yet to extend that to making in person friends too. And actually one of the online friends I made became my partner, and sure it's long distance for now but that actually makes it easier for someone like me to manage than if he was currently here with me, though I ofc am eagerly awaiting the day where I can be with him. But being a autistic individual that self isolated for a good part of my life, having long distance relationships in general is definitely easier for me so far and I honestly probably wouldn't have even gotten this far if I were limited to just in person stuff. I'm definitely glad for the friends I have even if deep down I still worry that I might lose them all.

Edit: I suppose the take away for others that I'm trying to relay is that, if you're struggling with this sort of thing too then perhaps try and seek out online friends as it's definitely way easier than in person ones for people suffering from extreme social anxiety and feelings like they won't be accepted.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

All I have to suggest is the phenomenon of mirror neurons. If you have a smile on your face, head up, and bright eyes, people will respond to you in kind.

 

[Rodafina]

@Neri
I wonder if you would find this thread interesting.

How to be Likeable.

First Rule of Relationships: To be liked, you must first be likeable. Simple, eh? Not for some, especially those who struggle with finding that "Special Someone" with whom to share a long-term, loving relationship based on mutual respect and trust. For those people, I present the highlights...

www.autismforums.com

 

[Au Naturel]

I tend to expect that people won't like me and feel an overwhelming sense of cognitive dissonance when they give me feedback that says otherwise. I expect it's part of "Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria" which I feel very strongly.

I have a loving partner now (also neurodivergent Aspie, I suspect ADHD as well, like me) and I can handle his loving feedback, in fact it feels like an essential nutrient or something, and a number of my children give me feedback that I'm a good mum (this isn't the case with all of them, though) but I've become a agoraphobe and I'm trying to address that.

The other side of it is that when people seek out my company, I'm also uncomfortable, as I expect one of us will soon disappoint the other OR, I just feel overwhelmed from the get go.

Because of the way my life has gone, I spent my childhood with a lot of trauma and isolation, then became a extremely busy mum and performance artist. Then breakdowns and burn outs, then mental health recovery circles, then more parenting, parenting, parenting. So I've never had much time to learn how to "socialise" other than in the confines of immediate family.

I'm confused about the backwards and forwards of how "friendship" goes because of my overall focus on my parenting commitments, and my prior tendency to focus on my performance art, when out in any public arena (but that is over, for now -agoraphobia for a number of years).

Being an 2e AuDHDer I am excruciatingly aware of how hyper and "full on" I can be, and having cptsd, I don't have a good background of socialization to fall back on. I tend toward overwhelm and then retreat.

Does anyone relate? I don't think I am as socially awful as I feel inside, but my brain just does a number on me and makes it SO HARD to want to have any kind of social life, or even work life at this point, outside of family commitments. But I do want to work on this. Any feedback, muchly appreciated.

Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD): Symptoms & Treatment

Rejection sensitive dysphoria is when you experience overwhelming emotional pain when faced with failure or rejection. It’s very common with ADHD and is treatable.

my.clevelandclinic.org

This better describes what we would have called being "thin-skinned" as a kid. Two people receive the same rejection. For one, it feels like the end of the world, while to the other, it just slides off. Who cares what you think? The more sensitive kid might have "RSD". (I was extremely thin-skinned as a kid and am still fairly rejection-sensitive today.) Some brains are naturally wired to be more sensitive.

Most kids have little use for their parents and will happily outline their failures. That's just the nature of the job. Sometimes, they come around when they have their own kids and realize what a cross childrearing is to bear.

People who are autistic generally feel very insecure about social skills. They often conclude they are unlikable. Once you have concluded that, anyone who tries to approach you is viewed with suspicion, maybe even a touch of paranoia. I'm sure there's a "dysphoria" term of some sort for it.

 

[Suzanne]

I have struggled with that all my life and as a child; young adult, I would feel embarrassed if someone sat next to me, on a bus or train, etc, when there were other seats. In fact, I would stop breathing!

Your general life sounds a lot like a friend of mine's daughter, who has ADHD. And I actually feel that it is far worse to suffer that, then ASD. Anyway, if you suspect your husband also has ADHD, then he probably has that and not ASD.

Although not an expert. I clearly see that the two cannot coexist. With ADHD, you have no concept of time. With ASD one is very conscious of time. I know this, because, before I was formally diagnosed, I did a lot of research and in one video and special needs teacher said: you always know an Aspie is in the room, because they will remind you of the time and I laughed as I am known to be a good time keeper!

How I get around feeling that I won't be liked, is actually friendly and as long as the recipient is responsive, I can feel more at ease.

 

[Neri]

I have struggled with that all my life and as a child; young adult, I would feel embarrassed if someone sat next to me, on a bus or train, etc, when there were other seats. In fact, I would stop breathing!

Your general life sounds a lot like a friend of mine's daughter, who has ADHD. And I actually feel that it is far worse to suffer that, then ASD. Anyway, if you suspect your husband also has ADHD, then he probably has that and not ASD.

Although not an expert. I clearly see that the two cannot coexist. With ADHD, you have no concept of time. With ASD one is very conscious of time. I know this, because, before I was formally diagnosed, I did a lot of research and in one video and special needs teacher said: you always know an Aspie is in the room, because they will remind you of the time and I laughed as I am known to be a good time keeper!

How I get around feeling that I won't be liked, is actually friendly and as long as the recipient is responsive, I can feel more at ease.

Actually studies have concluded that ASD and ADHD are co occuring in 50-70% of people with ASD.
I myself have both, and here in Australia we even have clinics devoted solely to the co disgnosis. Time to do some research Suzanne!
I am disgnosed with both, and I assure you, I have both. There is A LOT of content of people with both on youtube and other platforms.
You can ask me what it's like to have both, but to tell me they can't occur together, no, I'm sorry but you are just very wrong and misinformed.

 

[Neri]

I’d never heard of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, but everything you say is very familiar. I’m currently trying to work through this exact problem with my family.

We are in the process of coming back together. When my wife passed, I lost my executive function and any socialization was very difficult as well. Their rejection of me at that time was not at all imagined. But I have suffered all my life for the knowledge that people prefer my absence.

Just a few months back, the tide changed in my sons’ hearts. Maybe I’ve been tortured enough. But with a lifetime of being socially undesirable, I don’t know how to deal with acceptance. I’m just to the point of believing they’re over their huff, but my heart is not responding like I would have it do. Acceptance is scary because, every time, it’s the very last thing before rejection.

I think it just takes time to get over the hurt of rejection. I think us folk tend to feel things very, very intensely at times and at other times to be alexithymic and to need a lot if time, and good support to help us process those feelings

RSD - rejection sensitive dysphoria is a condition that is being experienced by a lot of folk with ADHD, as identified at this time.. The best explanation I heard was to take into account how many times one was rejected and told our behaviour was too much or not enough in the myriad of ways that it was, all the way through childhood and beyond and then to realise is it any wonder we get sensitive and hypervigilant to ongoing experiences of rejection or even perceiving it when it isn't even there?

I don't always struggle with it, but it is something I've become aware of because sometimes its clearly out of proportion to what has occured.

I'm glad your son has had a change of heart, but it does sound hurtful what preceded that.

 

[Neri]

@Neri
I wonder if you would find this thread interesting.

How to be Likeable.

First Rule of Relationships: To be liked, you must first be likeable. Simple, eh? Not for some, especially those who struggle with finding that "Special Someone" with whom to share a long-term, loving relationship based on mutual respect and trust. For those people, I present the highlights...

www.autismforums.com

From what I gather, I am likable and have worked very hard on that, it's just the persistent internal experience of being cognitively distorted/dysphoric about it, that I struggle with.
My new support worker, told me yesterday, we went to a new-for-me "coffee group" that I came across very open and friendly. But I felt awkward and overly self conscious.

I do smile plenty. I am considered "warm". I just seem to have a cognitively distorted view of myself. I think just writing this original post has helped my brain recognise that my experience of this is not grounded in reality, but is based on past trauma, because already the sense if it is shifting. No doubt it will arise again, but, I will, no doubt address it then, as well.

 

[Slime_Punk]

Definitely relate on the RSD front. Although I've never had issues with being unlikable (the closest I ever get is just not having things in common with others, so it's friendly mutual indifference), there's always that creeping feeling about "what if X doesn't actually like me?" when they inform me the opposite is true every time.

Also, I don't know about you, but occasionally I'll take insult to something that's not even offensive. I'll think that someone doesn't like me based on a past interaction when in reality, they weren't really saying what I thought they were, I was just anticipating the worst. AuDHD RSD is a heck of 'drug', that's all I know .

Honestly, the best way through it (for me) is to just see it as that jester who means well, but it always going to be there. Navigating through life will be a challenge with that little guy on my shoulder, but not impossible!

 

[Rodafina]

From what I gather, I am likable and have worked very hard on that, it's just the persistent internal experience of being cognitively distorted/dysphoric about it, that I struggle with.
My new support worker, told me yesterday, we went to a new-for-me "coffee group" that I came across very open and friendly. But I felt awkward and overly self conscious.

I do smile plenty. I am considered "warm". I just seem to have a cognitively distorted view of myself. I think just writing this original post has helped my brain recognise that my experience of this is not grounded in reality, but is based on past trauma, because already the sense if it is shifting. No doubt it will arise again, but, I will, no doubt address it then, as well.

It sounds like you figured some things out by writing and understand yourself well. But for you, me, and anyone else who has struggled with this, I wonder if the feeling of disonance has something to do with a mismatch between our authentic selves and the self that other people seem to like. I think many of us learned to put on a good front through life and although that can be based in authenticity, if we have tried too hard to learn how to be liked and accepted, then it can actually start to stray from our true self. Sometimes the truly authentic self feels like it must be protected.

I think for most of my life I came off as very likable, but I hated the person I was portraying. Whatever they liked, it was only a surface level illusion and I kept from getting to know people any better because I didn’t think what was underneath was very likable at all. A persistent fear of rejection led to an unwillingness to even imagine acceptance. I’ve been able to change that in recent years, but to do that I had to ultimately accept the notion that maybe I will not be likable and certainly not likable to many. Instead, it was worth it for me to take a chance on offering more authenticity and depth and then see who sticks around. It felt like facing the possibility of rejection head on and looking it in the eyes to say “I am not afraid of you.”

 

[Neri]

It sounds like you figured some things out by writing and understand yourself well. But for you, me, and anyone else who has struggled with this, I wonder if the feeling of disonance has something to do with a mismatch between our authentic selves and the self that other people seem to like. I think many of us learned to put on a good front through life and although that can be based in authenticity, if we have tried too hard to learn how to be liked and accepted, then it can actually start to stray from our true self. Sometimes the truly authentic self feels like it must be protected.

I think for most of my life I came off as very likable, but I hated the person I was portraying. Whatever they liked, it was only a surface level illusion and I kept from getting to know people any better because I didn’t think what was underneath was very likable at all. A persistent fear of rejection led to an unwillingness to even imagine acceptance. I’ve been able to change that in recent years, but to do that I had to ultimately accept the notion that maybe I will not be likable and certainly not likable to many. Instead, it was worth it for me to take a chance on offering more authenticity and depth and then see who sticks around. It felt like facing the possibility of rejection head on and looking it in the eyes to say “I am not afraid of you.”

That is actually a really insightful and helpful reflection. Thank you! That does resonate for me.

 

[Neri]

I have struggled with that all my life and as a child; young adult, I would feel embarrassed if someone sat next to me, on a bus or train, etc, when there were other seats. In fact, I would stop breathing!

Your general life sounds a lot like a friend of mine's daughter, who has ADHD. And I actually feel that it is far worse to suffer that, then ASD. Anyway, if you suspect your husband also has ADHD, then he probably has that and not ASD.

Although not an expert. I clearly see that the two cannot coexist. With ADHD, you have no concept of time. With ASD one is very conscious of time. I know this, because, before I was formally diagnosed, I did a lot of research and in one video and special needs teacher said: you always know an Aspie is in the room, because they will remind you of the time and I laughed as I am known to be a good time keeper!

How I get around feeling that I won't be liked, is actually friendly and as long as the recipient is responsive, I can feel more at ease.

@Suzanne
Here is a link to a clinic that specialises in AuDHD otherwise known as comorbid ASD and ADHD

Qanc - QLD ADHD & NEUROSCIENCES CLINIC

Queensland ADHD & Neurosciences Clinic, Pindara Hospital, Mental Health, ADHD, ASD Autism Spectrum Disorder, SLD Specific Learning Disorders

www.qanc.com.au

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm likeable but not popular.

 

[Kayla55]

This is a real clarity, thanks for this post. I always felt my neglect caused my avoidant attachment disorder, that my teen problems were upbringing as opposed to autism.
I am still hyper-sensitive and despite interest from people I alwa6s felt not good enough or loveable.
So autism can block us socially imparing certain development blocks and abuse or rejection just kills us.
Agree/disagree

 

[Dagan]

I don't think I have ever felt overly liked, popular by choice of others or even really needed. At the same time, I know I can't handle too much attention, so I prefer to rather do shadow work. I will have to further explain using art and creativity, sorry. I will always be compelled to make art. I will want it displayed to hopefully entertain folks. I don't want a seat atop any podium with a spotlight. I feel arrogant if I try too hard to promote or market any of it. I constantly see people in the same fields who are so, so very arrogant and annoying, and I would be a bigger ball of anxiety if anyone mistook me for such a person. But, yeah, in so many other ways of just being a person, that's kind of how my brain thinks per being liked and such.

 

[Neri]

This is a real clarity, thanks for this post. I always felt my neglect caused my avoidant attachment disorder, that my teen problems were upbringing as opposed to autism.
I am still hyper-sensitive and despite interest from people I alwa6s felt not good enough or loveable.
So autism can block us socially imparing certain development blocks and abuse or rejection just kills us.
Agree/disagree

I do understand. One of the reasons it took me so long to figure out my Autism is that, firstly, my mum moved me around a lot, she was a bit of a modern day gypsy type (I wouldn't be surprised if we had some Rom blood in us, even) she even dressed like it and dressed me that way too, so I was always a new kid AND a weird kid and secondly, it was pretty awful a lot of the time, there was a lot of yelling, being heavily criticised and misunderstood, being hit, my mum being hit sometimes, as she had various bfs; so I had a lot of trauma to address long before the thought arose that maybe I'm autistic.

I think my mum is, probably, autistic too, but hasn't worked it out yet. She thinks her mum was. My Dad worked his out, which helped me work mine out.

But definitely the trauma stuff makes it hard to figure out what's what. I had years of trauma treatment under my belt before I realised "There is something else at play here, too".

And it sure doesn't help when it comes to trying to learn to socialize. I always hid behind my kids and my music career, but people kept coming up to me and complimenting me on my singing and I was so uncomfortable with that!

There was no way I could withstand PTA meetings or village life, I was much happier living in the bush with lots of children but that was super hard too! I live in a village now.

Couple that with the fact that my kid's dad picked me up at 16, situationally mute and homeless, 1000's of km away from my parents and boasted later on that he had wanted a homeless kid for a gf that he could "mould". He was never nice to me but I got pregnant so quickly I had no other options, that I could see than stay with him (thanks autism AND trauma and youth for that one). But my oldest just turned 33 yesterday and I love him and all of his sibs. He rang me and it was good. He rang me to wish me a "Happy birthing day".

Yes, the combination of childhood developmental trauma and ASD is a killer for learning socialization comfortability. I make art, crafts, I research, consume media, parent, cook, and hang out with my autistic partner but beyond that, going out in the world makes my nervous system super reactive and it takes me days to recover.

 

[Kayla55]

I'm sorry to hear how hard life was, as if ASD isn't a hurdle enough.
ASD leaves us socially weak that we become preyed on by wrong type of men or a typical symptom of coming from a dysfunctional family. I thought I'd healed my wounds of my father but my husband was a clear indication I hadn't. I believed that in self therapy I could assess and recognise a weakness but in truth it's people's response to you that heals trauma. At my age finding love n healing seems daunting, I'm a write off. Maybe real love would've changed me years ago