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I have so long wanted to ask other Aspies some questions...

K

kevinmac

Member
Hello,

This is my first post. I just found this forum.

2 1/2 years ago I met a woman and fell in love with her fairly rapidly. Which wasn't easy. I originally thought she had BPD after I googled "extreme inappropriate anger". After a while I started going to a psychologist who, even though it is perilous, agreed to help me try to understand her. She (the therapist) concluded, and I now deeply agree, that the woman I love is a fairly high-functioning Aspie.

Unfortunately, she does not know she is (she might have a vague understanding that she is, but she does not want to know). She has lived a very difficult life, and admit and accepts a diagnosis of bi-polar (wrong) and mild schizophrenia (probably right, she controls it so well it is hard to tell). After having lived with her for two years, I add dissociative identity disorder to her diagnoses as well (really).

I have tried to bring up Aspergers and she just does not want to hear it. To quote her: "I don't want one more f'd up mental disease". She will not go to therapy. She suffers from paranoia (but given her life, it is not unjustified) and says of therapists "they ask you about your life, and then they crucify you with it".

So she won't admit she has aspergers, and we can't get therapy for it because she won't go.

In addition to her, there are two other Aspie coworkers in my life, and that has taught me that first, the woman I love (I'll call her Kate) is a person, not a diagnosis, that what she really has is a complex of things that add up to "Kate's Syndrome". I have have learned the there is a much variation between Aspies as there is between NTs. I know, duh.

The hard thing for me is that since most diagnosed Aspies are men, there is very little for me to read about Aspie women, and about NT relationships with Aspie women.

So, if you Aspies out there are willing, please let me ask you some questions, recognizing that every Aspie and every NT is different. Some of these questions I have indeed asked Kate, without real luck getting a response. Others I just can't ask because she does not admit her diagnosis.

Please don't waste your time telling me I may have the diagnosis wrong. 18 months of weekly therapist discussions and reading and study and most of all living with her for 2 1/2 years confirm for me that I have it right.

As you read my questions, please keep in mind that I am absolutely crazy in love with this woman, and I am convinced she loves me deeply as well (and says she does), although sometimes it is hard for me to know.

I am going to do one question to the group at a time, so as not to make my post ridiculously long.

1.) The most difficult behavior she has is "ignoring me". This is actually the behavior that caused my therapist to start asking me questions to investigate the possibility of Kate having aspergers.

When I come home from work, she used to say nothing at all. No smile, no hug, no nothing. She kept looking at her computer or watching TV. Over time, after my complaining, she has learned to tear herself away for a moment, but I can tell it is really hard for her. The first year of our relationship (our honeymoon period so to speak), an hour or so after I came home she would seek me out and then be very affectionate for a few minutes. But these days, we can be at home together all day, and she will never come into the room where I am. If I go where she is, she might not even look at me unless I call her name. Then she will interact with me, but only long enough to answer my question, or receive the information I have to give her.

I can ask her for attention, and she will give it to me. Sometimes, maybe once a day, sometimes less, she will be suddenly affectionate, very affectionate. If I do something nice for her, she melts, and is very appreciative. But ignoring me is her steady state condition.

It is so confusing, because over the course of the relationship, I have often interpreted this as her not caring about me, and when I tell her that she denies it, and will often make extraordinary efforts to show me she cares. I hope this example does not color my question in the wrong direction, but for example, yesterday I was complaining that it just really did not seem like she cared about me, and last night she came home from taking her daughter to a school event, woke me up, and made love to me in a way that could leave no doubt that she cared for me. She was amazing. Which makes being ignored again today even more confusing.

Can any of you help me understand this behavior, from your point of view as an Aspie? I hope it is not offensive or presumptuous of me to ask...

Thank you for your time.

Kevin
 
I do that sort of thing to my husband all the time. He'll bring it to my attention and I'll immediately try to "make up for it" by doing something thoughtful or even doing the exact thing he complained I never did, only to go back to my old habits.
For instance, if my husband complains that I'm not affectionate enough, I will be extra snugly the rest of the day and evening, only to go back to being distant and absorbed in my interests.
My husband complained to our therapist that he's tired of having to ask in order to get me to something for him. He saw it as a sign I didn't care enough to "know" what he wanted without having to ask. Our therapist said that he could look at it as a sign I did care, because I cared enough to listen in that moment and do what he did ask me.
Not speaking for all Aspies, my brain can hang on to a lot of information, from random scientific facts, to numbers, to license plates, but no matter how I try, I can't seem to remember social information. But, it doesn't mean I don't care. My brain just isn't wired for it.
 
Do you think she might be open to the idea of couples therapy? Where it's not necessarily that you have all these issues, but just want to improve what you have, as you are?
 
kevinmac said:
1.) The most difficult behavior she has is "ignoring me". This is actually the behavior that caused my therapist to start asking me questions to investigate the possibility of Kate having aspergers.

When I come home from work, she used to say nothing at all. No smile, no hug, no nothing. She kept looking at her computer or watching TV. Over time, after my complaining, she has learned to tear herself away for a moment, but I can tell it is really hard for her. The first year of our relationship (our honeymoon period so to speak), an hour or so after I came home she would seek me out and then be very affectionate for a few minutes. But these days, we can be at home together all day, and she will never come into the room where I am. If I go where she is, she might not even look at me unless I call her name. Then she will interact with me, but only long enough to answer my question, or receive the information I have to give her.

I can ask her for attention, and she will give it to me. Sometimes, maybe once a day, sometimes less, she will be suddenly affectionate, very affectionate. If I do something nice for her, she melts, and is very appreciative. But ignoring me is her steady state condition.

It is so confusing, because over the course of the relationship, I have often interpreted this as her not caring about me, and when I tell her that she denies it, and will often make extraordinary efforts to show me she cares. I hope this example does not color my question in the wrong direction, but for example, yesterday I was complaining that it just really did not seem like she cared about me, and last night she came home from taking her daughter to a school event, woke me up, and made love to me in a way that could leave no doubt that she cared for me. She was amazing. Which makes being ignored again today even more confusing.

Can any of you help me understand this behavior, from your point of view as an Aspie? I hope it is not offensive or presumptuous of me to ask...
Click to expand...

Welcome to AC Kevin,

Your partner acts like I used to act before I found out I was on the spectrum. If you change the instances of 'she' to 'he' my ex would think you'd written about me.

Did that mean I didn't care, or loved her less? No, and it was heartbreaking that she thought that was the case. As a start point, I'd ask you to stop using the word 'ignored', find something else, maybe 'zoned out'. Ignored carries deeper social markers than what's going on here, you need a new word, one that says "she isn't in at the moment".

Check out our resource section too, there are a number of books covering this subject matter.

Enjoy your stay.
 
You seriously are a guy that any aspie woman would love lol

But to go straight to your question:

YES. I am the same! Even before I discovered I was an aspie, I have learned to touch him. He constantly complained that I never go to him voluntary or touch him and it hurt, because he is a very tactile person and thought: if she loves me, why does she not touch me? I now have to think: Suzanne, you need to touch him? Suzanne: remember he is coming home and needs your love?

Only just the other day, it suddenly hit me. Perhaps he would like his robe downstairs and ready to put on and perhaps, I should greet him with his small whiskey.

He also complained that he is sitting in the other room all evening and not once do I go in and see him. To be fair on him. He, I do appreciate that it is not his duty to come to me. So now, I have to force myself to think: Perhaps he would like a visit.

Lol same here ie once he moans that I do not show affection, I surprise him and blow his mind and he will say: you are so perplexing for one minute, I feel sure you love me, but the next, feel sure you don't.

What you could try doing with Katie is to talk about aspergers in a POSITIVE light. Since she likes being online, means that she will be interactive with you if you say: hey I found this amazing site called: apsiecentral and wow the people I am speaking with, are amazing ( lol) and I tell you something, there is no way one can say they have a disability and they are proud to be aspies. Even say: you know how I complain that you do not show affection? I found this is quite common in aspergers. Since you are gaining much knowledge about us, then you can highlight the positive aspects.

I first saw aspergers as a disability, but due to years of mental torture and feeling that I am well, not human etc, it was a relief to find this out.

I became obsessed with aspergers and so did intense research on it and yes, very surprised to discover that it is found in boys over girls but also learned that is because we females are able to wear the "mask" very well and come across as "normal" to a certain extent. When problems arise it is misdiagnosed. I mean: my dr who does not know my history decides i cannot possibly be aspergerc because she has classic autism as patients, and I just do not show I am! She also raised her eye brows when I said it doesn't matter because I have found many aspies on line and they support me very much!

You will no doubt have noted that there are many female aspies on here?
 
Harrison said:
Welcome to AC Kevin,

Your partner acts like I used to act before I found out I was on the spectrum. If you change the instances of 'she' to 'he' my ex would think you'd written about me.

Did that mean I didn't care, or loved her less? No, and it was heartbreaking that she thought that was the case. As a start point, I'd ask you to stop using the word 'ignored', find something else, maybe 'zoned out'. Ignored carries deeper social markers than what's going on here, you need a new word, one that says "she isn't in at the moment".

Check out our resource sectio too, there are a number of books covering this subject matter.

Enjoy your stay.
Click to expand...

So true! My husband often uses the: you are always ignoring me. Because when I am absorbed, I just am not there and so, do not hear him and he will see that as a deliberate act of defiance and get hurt. When I am brought to awareness, I do try to listen but sadly, my mind is on what I was doing lol
 
I agree with the couples' therapist idea.

I think that if you continue to try to treat her or diagnostically interview her without her actually being present it is going to become harder and harder to involve her in improving your relationship together.

If you both want to work on improving your relationship and you see this possible diagnosis as something she should address but she doesn't want to? That is, at least for now, a impasse.

Look at the specific issues- it sounds like communication is a big one, perhaps compromise, perhaps addressing how each of you is expressive and receptive of "care". Those are solid relationship issues that can be addressed and dealt with. If she sees in that context some issues that she feels could be better addressed perhaps she may reconsider exploring an ASD diagnosis.

If she doesn't want to?
It's her call.

I have to be honest- I would be pretty pissed if my SO of two years was diagnosing me with their therapist the whole time. However that is my personal point of view, definitely.

I absolutely can not speak for anyone else nor do I claim to.
I do suggest kind of... going the other way around though. Addressing issues specific to how you two work together and then seeing if she is willing to look at how those issues may be present in other areas of her life.

Some people need to see for themselves that a certain issue is actually repeating in different areas of their life, and so working on a specific problem [the communication in your relationship] rather than perhaps she may have difficulties communicating, may be a more successful way to address it.

Good luck with this.

-Laz
 
I started doing that to my husband because he was so worn out when he came home from work, and I'd somehow absorb some of that exhaustion and it'd wear me out even more than I already was from school, housework, and tending an infant. I started avoiding him those first few minutes after he came in until he got settled. It stressed him a bit less too since he didn't have to worry about having me crawling all over him as soon as he stepped through the door. If he was okay, he'd start a bit of conversation as soon as he came in, and I'd socialize a bit. So in a way, it worked for us.

The more tired I am, the more I withdraw. It makes it hard on him since he gets to missing me. It's nothing personal, I'm just out of energy!
 
kevinmac said:
The most difficult behavior she has is "ignoring me". This is actually the behavior that caused my therapist to start asking me questions to investigate the possibility of Kate having aspergers.

When I come home from work, she used to say nothing at all. No smile, no hug, no nothing. She kept looking at her computer or watching TV. Over time, after my complaining, she has learned to tear herself away for a moment, but I can tell it is really hard for her.

But these days, we can be at home together all day, and she will never come into the room where I am. If I go where she is, she might not even look at me unless I call her name. Then she will interact with me, but only long enough to answer my question, or receive the information I have to give her.

I can ask her for attention, and she will give it to me. Sometimes, maybe once a day, sometimes less, she will be suddenly affectionate, very affectionate. If I do something nice for her, she melts, and is very appreciative. But ignoring me is her steady state condition.
Click to expand...


I'm tempted to simply respond, "yes" and just leave it at that. Though obviously you need to hear more. Your greatest challenge as a Neurotypical will be to learn to generally accept such behavior. In particular to understand that no matter how it may appear to you, IT'S NOT PERSONAL on her part. This is simply who and what we are hard-wired to be.

We don't interact socially on the same level or tempo as you do. We all have different levels of tolerance and flight/fight responses to social interactions in general that you may take for granted. And our emotional wants or needs are essentially in a very different "time zone" than yours. And while solitude might be an occasional indulgence for you, to us it is like air to breathe. That when you come home, you are instantly creating a disruption of sorts, even though it's not intended on your part.

From what you have posted, I relate to all of it as this. That the second you enter your home, there is likely an adjustment period for her. Where her solitude has been ended not by her own choice or her own sense of timing. For us this can be anything from a minor annoyance to a major disruption- or worse. Perhaps a foreign concept to Neurotypicals, but to us it's just the way it is.

While it may be good social etiquette to insist on mutually adapting to each others sense of social and emotional "timing", the neurological reality remains that we are likely to have far greater limitations in adjusting than you are. So again, your greatest challenge in maintaining such a relationship is to first learn an ability to both tolerate such a social dynamic, and above all, learn not to take it personally. That it simply reflects who she is, not who you are.

All my relationships were with Neurotypical women. They all failed. At the time neither they or myself had a clue that we were so neurologically different. I really have no idea as to what degree I might have been able to compensate for my own traits and behaviors had I known I was on the spectrum at the time. But I did recognize that my NT partners always took personally how I responded to them at times when socialization was essentially a bad idea for me under certain circumstances. I just didn't have the answers at the time and it cost us both in every case.
 
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Hi, Kevinmac.

The only thing you can do is work on your own expectations, with the idea that you need to be clear on what you need and whether you can get it from your aspergirl "as-is." I strongly agree with Judge about needing the "readjustment period" once you enter her environment. Even though you're welcome there, this is true. This doesn't change (I've been married for years).

SignOfLazarus also made a point that bears repeating: until a person sees for themselves that there's an unwelcome repetition in their life, they're not ready to fix it. It's why you can't "tell" someone something. They have to be willing to see it. Then they have to see it. Then, maybe, you can say something. Trying to have that conversation out-of-order will likely drive her to dig in her heels.

If you like to read, there's a book titled Blind Spot about how we don't see things that are right in front of us. I'm not necessarily saying read it for her; I think there also might be things falling in your own blind spot. I know this has often been true of me when I've striven to understand why "they" can't see what's so obvious to "me." It's almost always about the cost of discovery--to both them and me.

Hope this helps.
 
Aspergirl4hire said:
If you like to read, there's a book titled Blind Spot about how we don't see things that are right in front of us.
Click to expand...

Is this the book you're referring to?

Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People: Mahzarin R. Banaji, Anthony G. Greenwald: 8601405626905: Amazon.com: Books

I love stuff like this...thanks for the reference. Seems like every time I try to "work on" figuring out someone else's problem, I find my own problems to work on. Much more productive that way, though, right?
 
Welcome, Kevinmac. You've been getting some truly excellent advice on this thread so far, from some of AC's best. I hope you've been finding it useful.

Your partner's behavior is all too familiar to me. My housemate and friend of 30 years is continually frustrated by my tendency to ignore her when she gets home from work or if she enters and stays in a room where I'm otherwise occupied. I love her dearly, but there are plenty of days when she would doubt that vigorously to anyone who asked. I can hyperfocus or just zone out for a whole day if I'm in the right mood. I'm terse when interrupted. I'm also famous for droning "I'll be done in a minute," then continuing on with whatever I'm doing for another hour or more. If I'm not feeling open for business, someone else's needs come second, period. You have to either set yourself on fire, catch me when I'm between tasks or make an appointment to get my full attention. Even then, good luck with that. I don't mean anything by it. I'm not being selfish. It's just the way I'm designed. I'm incredibly glad my current partner is another Aspie. A long line of NT men before him were completely bewildered by my behavior.

It's unfortunate that your partner feels that an Asperger's diagnosis would constitute just another "f'd up mental disease," because the reality is that if she was assessed and found positive for AS, everything else she'd been told (or suspects) she has might very well be discounted. Asperger's symptomology overlaps with an awful lot of mental health diagnoses. I was misdiagnosed many, many times with about half the conditions in the DSM before my Asperger's was finally identified, including every one you mentioned in your OP. Only Major Depressive Disorder stayed in place thereafter. The fact that AS isn't a "mental disease" at all was a big relief for me, and might be for her if she understood what it's about. Maybe eventually you two can have a more productive discussion on the matter. I hope so.
 
I’m first going to speak from my professional perspective as a relationship therapist (PsyD). My next comments make no assumptions from what you’ve offered in your original post. The intention is only to clarify what should and shouldn’t be happening.

The ethics of psychiatric practice are complex. It's a challenge when a client seeks feedback on a partner we do not treat who has mental illness or neurodevelopmental disorder. Best practices dictate that we should restrict our comments to helping the client cope and communicate. We can assist the client with information about conditions for which the non-client partner has been clinically diagnosed, but we should never participate in diagnostic speculation of any kind about someone we are not treating. Likewise, we should discourage clients from independently researching possible diagnoses on behalf of their partners.

Now some case-specific commentary. I empathize with your desire to understand your partner. Rather than Googling possible diagnoses, I’d recommend reading up on the philosophy behind Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I say on ‘philosophy’ because I’m not for a minute suggesting you start playing with clinical therapeutic methods in your relationship. What I would encourage you to get out of it is that dealing with your partner’s present thoughts, feelings and behaviors without assigning them a label is much more appropriate than attempting armchair diagnostics and working from what will inevitably be a faulty perspective.
 
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Thank you all. Your comments are almost all very helpful.

Tonight is a very "up" time in our relationship. And I think it is because last week Kate and I had a moment of actual clear communication. And from that I realized that what I needed to work on was accepting her exactly as she is, even if that is not what society has drummed into me is what a relationship is "supposed" to be. In our moment of communication, she gave me a set of rules to follow that she felt would make our relationship better. Such rules between two NTs would almost certainly end a relationship, but I have been with her long enough, and am crazy in love with her, so I decided to just follow them.

Frankly, in any other forum, I would not repeat her rules, as I am about to. NT's would just assume that she did not give a (crap) about me.

But I took her rules after she said them, and I wrote them down, and gave them back to her, and said, "is this what you said". Here they are, written as if she was speaking them:

When you come in to talk to me, don't ask if you are bothering me. Talking to me does not bother me much, asking me bugs me a lot. But really, I would rather not talk. If I feel like talking, I will talk to you.

If you need attention, you can come sit next to me on the couch, or lay next to me on the bed, and snuggle with me. Just don't talk.

You ask about going to places together a lot. But frankly, I would just rather stay home. I have a few people (my mother, my sister) who I sometimes go places with, like when I go to the casino with my mother. But I don't want to go to the casino with you, you are too serious, it would not be fun. (Writing this from her point of view is losing the translation, what I actually wrote was "You have decided that even though we have almost never gone any place together [because, I thought, we were broke for a long time], you do not enjoy going any place with me, and don't want to.")

I have happy to have sex with you any time you ask. I enjoy it.

All I want for my birthday is money. If you want to make me happier, give me money. I am glad you pay most of our bills, thank you. But I really don't want anything else from you.

OK, those were her rules. I am going to be interested to hear what Aspies think of those rules. But let me add some things that might be of interest.

First, she does not really mean she does not want to talk, we talk all the time. And we both enjoy it. But it needs to be when she is ready for it and interested in it.

Second, because she grew up in horrible poverty (no bed, hungry every night), money and "things" are her love language. Me "doing" for her and taking care of her is a big deal to her, because from the time she was a child, she was neglected and abused. When I go get her something from McDonalds when she asks, that is a big deal to her. She is happier when I do that then some women I have been with were when I have them jewelry. So please let that color the money comment for you.

Third, when I wrote these rules and gave them to her, something about that had an effect on her. The next day, in the morning, she came and sat on my lap, and looked like she was about to cry. And she NEVER cries. She said "I don't show you how much I love you enough do I..." And she hugged my like she never wanted to ever let me go.

In the week since that day, I have been following the rules. All of them, Even the money one. I support her (she can't interact with people well enough to hold most jobs). But today, I gave her about $250 more than her normal $500 twice a month to buy food and spend and such. And when I did, and she was so happy, she said what can I do for you, and I said just make love to me a lot for the next few days (I work out of town 4 days a week), I am just too lonely for you, I miss you, and making love makes that better. Her reply was "That's easy."

In the last week, (before today when I asked for the extra attention), she has been kinder, more affectionate. I think the "rules" worried her somehow.

But our relationship is closer than it has ever been. We are very happy.

OK, FWIW, if I told my NT friends all that, they would say that obviously she does not like me, does not care about me, and is only using me for the money. They would tell me that ours is no way to have a relationship, and to end it. They are wrong I think.

There is a part that cannot really get communicated in this post. And that is somehow, there is no question in my mind that she loves me deeply. She says she does once in a while, but she shows it all the time in small ways. And I know I love her.

But I sure can't tell most of my friends the details of our relationship. Because it is so atypical. (It is atypical in other ways too. She is black, I am white, for example. She is much younger than me for another example.) (She is an adult, don't worry about the wrong things. She is 30.)

But because of the helpful way you replied to my first post, I decided to share it honestly with you folks.

I will be very interested to hear what you say. I know I can count on you to be honest. One of the things that I love about Kate is that she is always honest. She does not lie, and hates people who do. I suspect that most of you will be that way too.

Kevin

PS To the therapist: Yes, I know that is the ethics of your profession. I am so glad I happened to find (it was the third try) a psychologist that was willing to work outside of those boundaries. If she had followed those rules, I would never have come to understand Kate, and I would be like the string of NTs that other Aspies have left behind. Instead, she listened to me describe her, and over two years, helped me become certain that Kate is an Aspie. And she has enabled a really deep loving (albeit unconventional) relationship. I am very grateful to her (the psychologist). Kate's experience with therapists (she was involuntarily committed once) has made therapy a goal that we have not reached yet. We may never reach it. But we got help, by remote control, even if that is wrong. It worked for us. -K
 
It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, honestly.

We aren't going to judge someone, I would hope, and what would you do with the input anyway?

Celebrate the breakthrough, and enjoy it, you're now solving problems together. There are only two people in your couple, right?
 
Thanks. I am not looking for judgement so much as comments, thoughts and reactions. You are right, in the end, the only two judges that matter are Kate and I.

Kevin
 
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