High IQ, but Unemployed?

[Tom]

Actually, we are mostly just nerds in autistic clothing.

 

[tree]

@Edward764

"I suppose what separates me from most on this forum is that being autistic is not my only challenge,
but having a low aptitude in many disciplines of life has also set me back."

I cannot imagine how you figure that makes you different from anybody else.

 

[Pinkie B]

I suppose what separates me from most on this forum is that being autistic is not my only challenge, but having a low aptitude in many disciplines of life has also set me back.

My unusual learning disabilities have given me very poor coordination and balance, so I was never able to play organized sports. Medical professionals said when I was six years old that " I could not do exercises in school, moved around all the time, had completely immobilized anxiety, and was functioning on a retarded level."

In middle and high school, I tested in the bottom 25% of my peers in mechanical reasoning and space relations.
I was bullied all throughout school mercilessly due to my awkwardness, largely by my toxic friends. I even had wind passed in my face in the high school locker room when I was 16 years old, on a daily basis for four months. One of my " friends" dumped a trash can over my head in class when I was 14, and always stole my textbooks.

One day in middle school PE, the entire class of about 60 people rocked back and forth in unison saying " do the Edward" since rocking back and forth was how my autism was physically expressed.

To this day, I do not know how to make a paper airplane, or tie a tie.
I am a technological dinosaur as well, as I do not know how to e-mail forms, post you tube videos on forums, or create an avatar.

For the last 40 years, however, I have had little trouble actually socializing with people on a peripheral level. I appear quite normal and well spoken to strangers and co-workers, but do not easily make friends.

I am 61 years old and have never been out on a date, which would shock people with whom I associate.
I do not feel as though I have earned a relationship, since I have never contributed in a significant way to society.
I also could not deal with the irony of a relationship. I consider myself the most bizarre person to have ever existed, and the fact that no one could ever understand me would mean that I would always be alone.
I have mostly had nomadic jobs, where I can create the illusion of competence since I do not work with any group of people for more than 5% of the time. This had allowed to me to remain in current position for 22 years, despite a few setbacks.

i guess I am more fortunate in some ways, and more unfortunate in other ways than the majority on this forum. On average, it seems I am less intelligent, but more able to comfortably communicate with co-workers.

Hi Edward,

You don't seem intellectually disabled to me. Your post is articulate and has a good flow to it. Given your age you probably grew up in an era and environment where people were much more likely than today to call you "stupid" or "dumb" because you were different. It seems like you've internalized all of that negativity.

You've come this far in life and you seem to have figured yourself out pretty well despite the challenges. Maybe because of the challenges? I won't tell you that you should change your life or your attitudes or anything...except to say that earning a relationship, or love, is not a thing. You deserve it because you were born deserving to be loved. Not from a romantic partner, necessarily, but just because of who you are as a person. So don't think of yourself as less in any way.

 

[Bronzelincolns]

social skills struggles are the achilles heel of most on the spectrum. without the ability to talk to people it's very difficult to find a job yet alone getting a job and being able to deal with the stresses of that job.

it's also true that, overall, how people interact on the web doesn't translate to how they interact in real life.

 

[All-Rounder]

In order to get a job you must first lose some of that IQ. I suggest the classic recipe: in the morning throw 10 eggs up in the air and catch them with the top of your head, then do the same before bed with apples until you get very sleepy. Repeat for 3 months then switch to the apples in the morning and evening.

When you start forgetting things more often start going to interviews and soon enough you should sound normal enough to get a job.

Remember, a pair of shoes may be ugly to one person and pretty to another and good luck. Don't eat your apple.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

My mother used to say don't mix your eggs up with the apples.

Now I know why.

I suggest the classic recipe: in the morning throw 10 eggs up in the air and catch them with the top of your head, then do the same before bed with apples until you get very sleepy. Repeat for 3 months then switch to the apples in the morning and evening.

 

[GadAbout]

I suppose what separates me from most on this forum is that being autistic is not my only challenge, but having a low aptitude in many disciplines of life has also set me back...

Writing the quoted post and talking about bullying in school and your difficulties in adulthood must have been painful, I know it would have been for me. But I encourage you to feel similar, not different, to people on this site. Every one of us knows what it feels like to be different, excluded, the "other." We all have different strengths and weaknesses here, but what we have in common is feeling alienated from other people. I hope you can become more accepting of yourself, and even like yourself more, from participating on the forum.

 

[oregano]

I personally don't place any faith in any sort of test that attempts to measure any sort of functioning, be it IQ or any of the autism tests referenced here. (I mention this in my sig block.) I have been called smart as an adult, but in the US society is all about "networking", kissing the right butts in order to get ahead. Autistics, including me, are largely unable to "network", or even do basic social interactions required for a minimum wage job like fast food, so we rot on SSI and live in the basements and attics of relatives. For a lot of us, written communication is FAR easier than verbal, so we look better online than we do in real life. None of us like to think of ourselves as in some way superior to "ordinary" autistics simply because we write well on the internet.

 

[frink]

I have degrees from two elite universities and run my own small business. I was able to function for many years at a regular office job but I did not enjoy it, especially as the company grew to a lot of people. I didn't fit in great socially. I was very good at what I did however, and was able to act normal enough to survive. I was well liked by managers who were working towards the best interests of the company rather than playing politics. I did get a boss once who was gunning for me the day he took the job. He literally called me "anal boy" in front of others because of my attention to detail. Fortunately I was able to transfer to a different group soon enough.

 

[Pats]

Your school years were a nightmare and I'm glad you were able to physically get through it. But just because we got through something doesn't necessarily mean we conquered it, does it? I hope you find yourself more comfortable with this group, many having experienced similar lifestyles as yours, but the majority dealing with cruelty from others. This is one place where we can feel accepted for who we are.

And, yep, I couldn't do the sports or physical stuff either. My baseballs would land behind me when I tried to throw them, was always the last to be selected for a team, made fun of because I used to run into trees all the time (you'd think they were big enough that I would see them, but I guess looking down as I walked it wouldn't matter how big they were). I was always too stiff and uncoordinated that I couldn't dance or cheer. In high school I was finally able to write in my mom's handwriting and would write notes to the gym teacher that I couldn't participate and she'd send me to the library to do a report on some sport or something - much preferable to me.

Anyhow, it sounds like you fit in very well here.

 

[Nervous Rex]

I think two factors skew your perception of "autistic elite" on this forum:

1) I am much more articulate online, where I have all the time in the world to properly formulate and express my thoughts. I am not so articulate in person. I've seen others on this forum make the same statement.

2) Talking about I.Q. and "elite" tends to come from the narrow view that there is only one type of intelligence. When it comes to memorizing things for a test, I excel, so I get a high ranking on the one way we've decided to measure I.Q. But understanding social interactions, remembering basic chores throughout the day, actually staying focused and productive, remembering people's names - there are so many other forms of intelligence that I would fail miserably at, should we actually decide to test them. So, now I got a high score on a test that says, "This guy's going places" and I was valedictorian of my high school, and in real life ... I just get by. Because, it turns out, one narrow measurement of intelligence doesn't equate to actual ability to deal with the real world.

Wanna stretch the limits even further? Physical coordination is in the brain. That means that the jocks that shine at football, baseball, tennis, soccer, and all those other sports - yeah, they're geniuses. Their brains are tracking the positions of other players, their strategies, and the movement of some ball in a way we couldn't even begin to calculate manually. But someone decided once that that doesn't count as intelligence.

 

[Nervous Rex]

I don't think intelligence has much to do with the ability to work. I agree that most here displays intellect, deep thinking and well presented thoughts and feelings. But many of those also have said they speak much better here than they would in person. It's not that many are not smart enough to do jobs or have a career - it's all the other stuff that makes it difficult. I was an R.N. and worked a lot of years, but it was really hard because I had to deal with bosses and co-workers and schedules and mistreatment and I could go on and on. I did work, but after all those working years I'm tested and shown that I had severe impairment in social and occupational functioning. So being smart enough had nothing to do with why it was so difficult for me. Does that make sense?
Hi Edward and welcome.

1. See a question.
2. Skip to the bottom and post my own reply.
3. Go back to read the posts and find out someone else made the same two points as I did, but in fewer words and without ranting.
4. Do not profit.

 

[Nervous Rex]

It's true that most autistic people can easily out intellect their NT counterparts. I myself have managed to out witted a few university professors, including ones with Ph.D's. But there's the thing. Those intellectual superpowers that you are noticeing in autistic people did not come without a price. What we gain in one area, we lose in another. Plus, most autistic gain their intellectual strength by the simple fact that we must process social interaction by "cognitive" means. Which means our brains get a workout every time we go out and socialize.

 

[Nervous Rex]

In order to get a job you must first lose some of that IQ. I suggest the classic recipe: in the morning throw 10 eggs up in the air and catch them with the top of your head, then do the same before bed with apples until you get very sleepy. Repeat for 3 months then switch to the apples in the morning and evening.

...

Don't eat your apple.

Why? Because it might actually be an egg?

 

[Pats]

1. See a question.
2. Skip to the bottom and post my own reply.
3. Go back to read the posts and find out someone else made the same two points as I did, but in fewer words and without ranting.
4. Do not profit.

been there done that. lol I literally did laugh out loud.

 

[Pats]

I think two factors skew your perception of "autistic elite" on this forum:

1) I am much more articulate online, where I have all the time in the world to properly formulate and express my thoughts. I am not so articulate in person. I've seen others on this forum make the same statement.

2) Talking about I.Q. and "elite" tends to come from the narrow view that there is only one type of intelligence. When it comes to memorizing things for a test, I excel, so I get a high ranking on the one way we've decided to measure I.Q. But understanding social interactions, remembering basic chores throughout the day, actually staying focused and productive, remembering people's names - there are so many other forms of intelligence that I would fail miserably at, should we actually decide to test them. So, now I got a high score on a test that says, "This guy's going places" and I was valedictorian of my high school, and in real life ... I just get by. Because, it turns out, one narrow measurement of intelligence doesn't equate to actual ability to deal with the real world.

Wanna stretch the limits even further? Physical coordination is in the brain. That means that the jocks that shine at football, baseball, tennis, soccer, and all those other sports - yeah, they're geniuses. Their brains are tracking the positions of other players, their strategies, and the movement of some ball in a way we couldn't even begin to calculate manually. But someone decided once that that doesn't count as intelligence.

You know, all that calculation makes me dizzy just thinking about it. I can't even keep track of the football when trying to watch a game on tv. (I don't like watching sports anymore either).

 

[HidinginPlainSight]

Wanna stretch the limits even further? Physical coordination is in the brain. That means that the jocks that shine at football, baseball, tennis, soccer, and all those other sports - yeah, they're geniuses. Their brains are tracking the positions of other players, their strategies, and the movement of some ball in a way we couldn't even begin to calculate manually. But someone decided once that that doesn't count as intelligence.

This is something far too often overlooked when someone is attempting to put a quantitative number on intelligence. Someone needs to first define intelligence, and really, the IQ does a terrible job of this.

There are plenty of forms of intelligence. Some are valued highly and others not.

I struggle with hierarchical systems. For example, caring if I can sign a form when someone wants to order office supplies. It would never occur to me that this is important. Someone with a better understanding of the system makes sure they are the one who signs those orders and go to extreme lengths to make sure of it. As petty as it seems, signing for things implies a sense of status and leadership, even if the only criteria for ordering supplies is that we are out of supplies. They will write this on their applications, in fact without signing for nonsense, you can't even apply. These games are played all over the work place, such as making sure you are sitting in a certain spot to denote your importance, talking down to people "not on your level" and other subtleties of subjugation.

Very few of them who perform all these things to the level it takes to move up in the work place understand the principle of what they're doing, or if they do they would never admit it. They are simply working on a reciprocity value ledger system that dominates their every interaction; the end goal is to come out on top in every single one of them no matter how petty. It takes a certain skill to manage all of those processes; such as, knowing who you should say good morning to and who you should ignore. You won't score any points on an IQ test for any of this, but you will have a better chance at the working world.

I would say that someone who can intuitively grasp the finer points of these things is displaying a certain type of intelligence.

It also helps if you don't stutter when you speak, slur words quickly when talking about a topic of interest, fidget, rub your fingers, look spaced out, are generally disliked by people.....etc....

 

[VAW]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that 66% of people with autism are not employed.

I find this baffling because of the high level of intellect, deep thinking, and well presented thoughts and feelings that are so eloquently expressed on these forums. Most contributors seem to have far greater than average intelligence.

Why is this? Is the typical autistic individual more intelligent than average, or does this forum only attract the most intellectually elite among the autistic spectrum?

I would be shocked if only 34% of the people of these forums were capable of gainful employment.

My son is highly intelligent, but as they have all said, it isn't intelligence that prevent them from working a job. For as intelligent as he is, I try to convince him that he can do anything, be a writer, a model, anything, but his answer is always what is the point? Too much energy for nothing...etc. He has other physical issues that prevent him from working but without a connection to anything nothing means anything to him. Without ever getting out of his mental state there is no reason to even try because it is too much anxiety to leave his comfort zone so what matters? Then the high anxiety makes his physical condition worst, so it is a vicious circle.

 

[Autistamatic]

The figures for Autistics in full time gainful employment are even less optimistic at around 16% in both US & Europe.

I'm in discussion with a number of collaborators aiming to address some of the problems autistic and other ND people have in the workplace and getting work in the first place. We all agree that the interview process is the biggest hurdle.

Currently almost all interviews are based heavily on social performance factors meaning that highly qualified, or highly capable autistic & ND people lose out to lesser candidates who can "talk the talk" but don't do as well when it comes to "walking the walk". This isn't just an injustice to autistic people, it hinders businesses who are hiring mediocre candidates whilst missing out on the autistic and neurodivergent talent pool and the potential within it.

The productivity of a hyper focused autistic using their strongest skills, far exceeds their NT generalist counterparts. Bipolar and dyslexic people can demonstrate tremendous creativity. ADHD can offer dedication and determination and so on...
Some employers and HR bodies are starting to recognise this but progress has been slow. Business needs innovation and hard working employees but has placed too much emphasis on blind obedience, company procedures and "friendly" workplaces. The work we and many other groups across the world are doing hope to provide solutions for that.

A couple of interesting links...
Neurodiversity at work | CIPD

Neurodiversity in the workplace | Acas

 

[Gracey]

I'd always understood intelligence to mean the ability to adapt.
(verb, intelligere - to perceive or comprehend)


I have to wonder if it isn't so much about using the academic smarts to get the job,
But adapting; or giving the appearance of adapting to environment once in the job.

Keeping the job, for me, is usually the trial or test.

I've read accounts on here of those that become self employed or found other ways to generate an income after consideration of what they feel they can and can't tolerate well or are more comfortable with in a productivity sense.

In my mind that is adapting. Some awesome intelligence going on there.

Writing like Shakespeare and being a paper genius are; I think, stand alone facts.
Awe inspiring, but unless we can make them work for us, stand alone facts.

For me it's how those facts are utilised for our own benefit and possibly the benefit of others.

How we adapt those gifts and abilities, use them to achieve desires. Income, as just one example.

I'm not sure there's enough money in the world to tempt me to go back to working in some of the jobs I used to have.

I currently favour sanity and well being over responsibility and matching salary.
That isn't to say I will ALWAYS favour well being.

My family are already placing wagers on the length of time it will take me to change the above
(it's an affectionate, leg pulling, in-house joke)

I'm also rambling and starting to go off somewhere else.

Intelligence, for me, is how we adapt the smarts we have and use them to make it work for us.