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Games

NDR2

Well-Known Member
There’s a program for people with learning disabilities near me that I attend events with. It’s a staffed program and the staff do talk down to you. I simply see it as a means of support and socializing.

One event they have regularly is where the participants get together to hang out and play board games and draw. I was there last weekend and I played Apples to Apples with a group. (Anybody here know how to play that?) There’s a bunch of green cards with adjectives and red cards with nouns. Everybody gets 7 red cards. When it’s your turn, you’re the judge. You pick a green card from the pile, and everybody else puts down a red card that they think the word on the green card best describes. Then the judge picks which one of the red cards they like best, and that person wins the round.

When it was one person’s turn to judge, she was looking through the pile of green cards to decide which one she wanted to play. My understanding is that you’re supposed to pick only the top card and that’s the card you play for the round. I told her not to do what she was doing because that was cheating; and she insisted on doing it her way and got all upset. She said things like, “It’s a free country!” and “We’re just playing to have fun!” I agree we were just playing to have fun, but it’s simple logic to me that you play a game by the rules. We talked to staff about it, and they sided with her. Their only suggestion was that we not play together in the future. That’s the route I’m sort of inclined to go.

Does anyone else agree that this person wasn’t being fair?
 

Stuttermabolur

A psychologist said so
V.I.P Member
There’s a program for people with learning disabilities near me that I attend events with. It’s a staffed program and the staff do talk down to you. I simply see it as a means of support and socializing.

One event they have regularly is where the participants get together to hang out and play board games and draw. I was there last weekend and I played Apples to Apples with a group. (Anybody here know how to play that?) There’s a bunch of green cards with adjectives and red cards with nouns. Everybody gets 7 red cards. When it’s your turn, you’re the judge. You pick a green card from the pile, and everybody else puts down a red card that they think the word on the green card best describes. Then the judge picks which one of the red cards they like best, and that person wins the round.

When it was one person’s turn to judge, she was looking through the pile of green cards to decide which one she wanted to play. My understanding is that you’re supposed to pick only the top card and that’s the card you play for the round. I told her not to do what she was doing because that was cheating; and she insisted on doing it her way and got all upset. She said things like, “It’s a free country!” and “We’re just playing to have fun!” I agree we were just playing to have fun, but it’s simple logic to me that you play a game by the rules. We talked to staff about it, and they sided with her. Their only suggestion was that we not play together in the future. That’s the route I’m sort of inclined to go.

Does anyone else agree that this person wasn’t being fair?
As someone who is really into board games, I understand your frustrations well. I also find it really annoying when people won't just follow the rules, and it really makes the game less fun for me. However, it does matter what type of group you are in, and if you are playing with people who clearly don't care much about games or rules, complaining ultimately won't lead to a good outcome. In that situation I would recommend either quitting or doing your best to keep your frustrations inside of you since insisting on the rules will only piss the other people off (even if you are right and it isn't fair).
 

Misery

Photo-Negative
V.I.P Member
It's My Birthday!
I'll agree with @Stuttermabolur .

Really into board games myself, and if players arent going to follow the bloody rules, I dont see the point. And it's not just an autism thing either. Spend enough time around anyone in the board gaming community, and you'll find that a great many are like this. Some might be willing to house-rule at times, but that seems to usually happen if some aspect of the game in question just... doesnt work. So that's more like taking a video game like Skyrim, and modding it to fix some of the messed up wobbly bits. Or someone might create like, a fan-made variant (again, similar to how modding works) but those are always separated.

But actually playing the games once all is said and done? Yeah. Sticking with the rules is generally the norm for those into that hobby even if it's "modded" or not.

Unfortunately none of that matters worth a fart when dealing with someone who isnt into it, doesnt genuinely care, and is just playing it (or attempting to play) simply because others are doing so at that specific moment.

But then again, there ARE games that are made for exactly that sort of experience, the "just a goofy party game" sort, those are often designed under the assumption that the players involved will not be taking it very seriously. Trying to play a more detailed one is usually when the derp starts.
 

SusanLR

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
@NDR2
I agree with you.
I've had some of the same experiences and just won't play with someone or a group
that doesn't take the game and the rules seriously.
To me games are fun, but if everyone does their own thing and makes their own rules
it isn't fun. It isn't fair.

Afterall even though games are fun, isn't the idea to win if you can?
To do that, you need to follow the rules.
I've had people tell me they were just there to have fun, and nobody pays attention
to rules.
To me, that isn't fun. It's silly.
 

tree

Blue/Green
Staff member
V.I.P Member
The rules make the game.
If there aren't any rules, where's the game?

Calvinball is only fun for Calvin, I think.
 

Nervous Rex

High-functioning autistic
V.I.P Member
I am good with changing up the rules of the game ... as long as everyone agrees on it ahead of time.

In Apples to Apples, I would object if someone was rifling through the red cards to pick a good one. But there's no way for someone to cheat by picking through the green cards - they're just choosing an adjective for everyone else to match and the judge doesn't get any points for the green card they chose. I would question them once on it, then go with whatever the group consensus is.

When I play board games or social games, I love exploring strategies and I do my best to win. But I have to tell myself ahead of time, "Don't expect to win. This is a social thing and you're here to enjoy playing, not just winning." I have to tell myself that and remind myself several times.
 

Forest Cat

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
One thing I think is important to remember, playing a game is usually about following the rules and winning the game. But sometimes the game or winning the game is not the important thing. For example, the event you describe sounds like something where people tried to socialize, meet people and have fun. So in that setting, I would have let her do whatever she wanted with those cards and just tried to have fun. The game or the rules of the game would not be super important for me. In that setting. It would be more about just talking with people and having fun. I would probably have said "she's cheating!" with a smile :) and then laughed it off and turned it into a joke.

But I understand why you think it wasn't fair, I understand why you think it's a problem. Just remember that sometimes the game and the rules are secondary, it's not the most important thing. It's just something to do with other people and it doesn't really matter who wins it.

If you want to make a good impression, you could tell that woman next time that you are sorry if you upset her and you just took the game a little too seriously for a moment. And you didn't mean to or want to upset her.
 
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Tom

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
game gone wrong.jpg


I think it's a case where context matters. I've seen cardgames get rather tense and hoped only that I could get out unharmed and at least with my pants.

;)
 

Atrapa Almas

70% INTJ + 30% ASPIE = 100% HUMAN
V.I.P Member
As someone who is really into board games, I understand your frustrations well. I also find it really annoying when people won't just follow the rules, and it really makes the game less fun for me. However, it does matter what type of group you are in, and if you are playing with people who clearly don't care much about games or rules, complaining ultimately won't lead to a good outcome. In that situation I would recommend either quitting or doing your best to keep your frustrations inside of you since insisting on the rules will only piss the other people off (even if you are right and it isn't fair).
And thats why I play computer games.
 

paloftoon

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
To play devil's advocate and because I kind of feel like this about this particular thread right now, I'm kind of appalled at a few of the responses I see to the OP so far. These kind of responses are promoting low functioning behavior and not social growth for our community.
I also happen to know the game Apples to Apples very well, and I'm surprised there aren't others that know it as it is a fairly common party game.

@NDR2 , yes not only was this person unfair. The fact that the staffer(s) supported this girl's behavior, it implies that they are probably underpaid and don't like their jobs. Maybe they are not good at their jobs or are good at working with higher functioning people or people with varying functioning levels. Maybe this girl's parents donate a lot of money to the organization you're getting social services from. So, in order to keep that relationship, they feel the necessary to keep the girl happy. This is part of the idea that (at least in the US), "everyone" *who can't take it" "gets a star" for their "participation" and that everyone is a "winner".
This girl deserves to be "made upset" in this situation.


NDR2, I think you need to look for another social group. There might not be one available that caters well to your social needs, and you might need to find your own space(s). I have been in this situation before and have tried to support my peers. The ones in my community I tend to mesh better with tend not to be in these social groups.
People who don't properly play by the rules and don't consider expressing changes in rules beforehand and just want their way to feel like a winner are not fun to be around. Instead of a real game, it's like a let's all cater to this person and make them feel good.
If I was in your shoes, this game would not be fun to me with her attitude. Yes, it's a free country, but she doesn't want to compete fairly. She didn't say this beforehand, and so she needs to play by the rules until she asks to play with the card thing beforehand.
In the whole scheme of things, it's "not a big deal" but for someone interested in playing the game as a game and not overly casual, they play by the rules or what they determined to be rules during that time of the game.

Maybe you should just resign and let the person "win" (since they aren't actually winning anything besides the feeling of winning anyway) and say you want to play another game because it's not fun to play with someone who clearly changes rules at the last minute when you've already started playing. Also express that you don't trust playing with this person for the rest of the day anymore and maybe encourage a solo game to play on your own or to help with some cleaning errand or something like that.


I think you should not continue to go to this social group. If you aren't independent and have your own job, those are good goals to aim for. meetup.com, you can find more sensible people to play games with- especially those interested in tabletops will tend to play by the rules more fairly as much as possible.
 

NDR2

Well-Known Member
To play devil's advocate and because I kind of feel like this about this particular thread right now, I'm kind of appalled at a few of the responses I see to the OP so far. These kind of responses are promoting low functioning behavior and not social growth for our community.
I also happen to know the game Apples to Apples very well, and I'm surprised there aren't others that know it as it is a fairly common party game.

@NDR2 , yes not only was this person unfair. The fact that the staffer(s) supported this girl's behavior, it implies that they are probably underpaid and don't like their jobs. Maybe they are not good at their jobs or are good at working with higher functioning people or people with varying functioning levels. Maybe this girl's parents donate a lot of money to the organization you're getting social services from. So, in order to keep that relationship, they feel the necessary to keep the girl happy. This is part of the idea that (at least in the US), "everyone" *who can't take it" "gets a star" for their "participation" and that everyone is a "winner".
This girl deserves to be "made upset" in this situation.


NDR2, I think you need to look for another social group. There might not be one available that caters well to your social needs, and you might need to find your own space(s). I have been in this situation before and have tried to support my peers. The ones in my community I tend to mesh better with tend not to be in these social groups.
People who don't properly play by the rules and don't consider expressing changes in rules beforehand and just want their way to feel like a winner are not fun to be around. Instead of a real game, it's like a let's all cater to this person and make them feel good.
If I was in your shoes, this game would not be fun to me with her attitude. Yes, it's a free country, but she doesn't want to compete fairly. She didn't say this beforehand, and so she needs to play by the rules until she asks to play with the card thing beforehand.
In the whole scheme of things, it's "not a big deal" but for someone interested in playing the game as a game and not overly casual, they play by the rules or what they determined to be rules during that time of the game.

Maybe you should just resign and let the person "win" (since they aren't actually winning anything besides the feeling of winning anyway) and say you want to play another game because it's not fun to play with someone who clearly changes rules at the last minute when you've already started playing. Also express that you don't trust playing with this person for the rest of the day anymore and maybe encourage a solo game to play on your own or to help with some cleaning errand or something like that.


I think you should not continue to go to this social group. If you aren't independent and have your own job, those are good goals to aim for. meetup.com, you can find more sensible people to play games with- especially those interested in tabletops will tend to play by the rules more fairly as much as possible.

This particular program is actually a paid one. You register and pay for each event you attend. Your points about why I should quit the program make sense, and I can certainly think of several other reasons to do so.

I’ve already been going for a number of years and many people know me there. I also have quite a few friends there – it’s more or less my way of staying in touch with them. I see them on the outside, too. I’m hoping they can be part of my support system as well. So while it’s far from the best program, part of me wants to keep my sources of support in place and open for however I may need it. Thus, I’m feeling a little hesitant to leave.

Anyway, I did go back on Sunday and played Bananagrams with another group of people. No conflicts happened.

I did actually start doing virtual Meetups during the pandemic, and there were some fun ones (the program above also did all their activities virtual during that time). After I got vaccinated I became more eager to do more in-person things. In time I broke away from virtual activities. There was one in-person Meetup group I started attending. I’d been to a few of their Meetups and the people seemed nice. However, my behavior, which got misinterpreted by some participants led to complaints about me behind my back and my being removed from the group. (I guess one of the advantages of the above program is that I can be myself more there.)
 

paloftoon

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
This particular program is actually a paid one. You register and pay for each event you attend. Your points about why I should quit the program make sense, and I can certainly think of several other reasons to do so.

I’ve already been going for a number of years and many people know me there. I also have quite a few friends there – it’s more or less my way of staying in touch with them. I see them on the outside, too. I’m hoping they can be part of my support system as well. So while it’s far from the best program, part of me wants to keep my sources of support in place and open for however I may need it. Thus, I’m feeling a little hesitant to leave.

Anyway, I did go back on Sunday and played Bananagrams with another group of people. No conflicts happened.

I did actually start doing virtual Meetups during the pandemic, and there were some fun ones (the program above also did all their activities virtual during that time). After I got vaccinated I became more eager to do more in-person things. In time I broke away from virtual activities. There was one in-person Meetup group I started attending. I’d been to a few of their Meetups and the people seemed nice. However, my behavior, which got misinterpreted by some participants led to complaints about me behind my back and my being removed from the group. (I guess one of the advantages of the above program is that I can be myself more there.)

Removed from the group? Ugh. Hmm, statistically speaking, most likely there are some things other participants and maybe even staffers are monitoring very well and some things on your end. Considering what you told me before and that being removed from the group (temporarily if it was Bananagrams specifically or from the social group itself more presumedly?) could be a sign to move on to other groups and work on independence and maybe our own advanced? social skills more.

Try your best to avoid and minimize misinterpretations. Sure, even NTs can get misinterpreted, but try to learn from each experience and not use it as a "get out of jail free card" because it just makes you look bad and low functioning if you don't take social responsibility and social balance per context. Misinterpretations shouldn't be happening a lot- only once in awhile. If they are happening too often, most likely there are some things you need to try to figure out for yourself.

If you are paying an organization and this is the kind of response you've been getting rather than paying for your meal or gas or things like that, probably time to move on. I've been in a few groups trying to create my own social circles but the other peers have been lacking too much independence and functionality and the staff are always on a different plateau as it would be a conflict of interest to ever befriend a person they are serving.
Do you know if you like other games besides party games? Party games are more casual and low stakes and extremely social, but they personally bore me. Like, could you stand playing a 3 hour game or more complicated games with strategy and depth in them? Or even if you didn't know how to play, would you be okay with other(s) teaching you "off the cuff" and then you playing them? A lot of tabletop groups are like this where there's usually someone who knows how to play a more difficult game but then they need enough other players on the same page enough to play it out. Splendor, Ticket to Ride, or Catan are some good games to start off considering in this realm if you don't know what I'm talking about. You can even look up how to play at least one of them online beforehand if you're hesitant, but interested. This could be (a part of) your vibe more.
 

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