1. Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Featured Biopsychology Final Project

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Camryn Nicole, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. Camryn Nicole

    Camryn Nicole Active Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2020
    Karma:
    +8
    Hello!
    My name is Camryn! I am a university student and I have been working on a biopsychology project for the past three months. My project has been centered around Autism and other related autism spectrum disorders (ASD). As the last piece of my assignment, I am to take steps to help aid the problem that I have noticed in society, which is the stigmatization of ASDs.
    I am a very scientific person, and I wanted to ask the question, "Why, if so many people stigmatize ASDs, does it even still exist in the human genome?" One of the most fundamental and integral laws of nature is the survival of the fittest, and those genes that are passed on to future generations. I have been doing lots of research over the past few months to uncover the biological strength of having an ASD, and while in my readings of peer-reviewed articles, scientific journals, and personal testimonies, I have seen the evidence of the social and emotional challenges that are faced each day by people with an ASD, there is bountiful evidence of the benefits of having one of these conditions on the autism spectrum. I have discovered that there is a high number of genes related to intelligence in the human genome that are also pleotrobpically associated with ASDs, which is highly likely the main reason that it is still something that individuals can have today.
    I have come to this forum to discuss some of my findings as part of my research project. I want to actively change the stigmas surrounding ASDs by first changing the language used around these conditions. People still have ASDs for a reason- nature and biology do not make mistakes, and so I know that ASDs must have advantages for individuals who have them. The genotypic findings are likely the explanations behind the persistence of ASD. My personal opinion on the stigmatization surrounding ASDs is that it is a problem of society, not a problem that people with ASD have themselves. The disadvantages that individuals living with ASDs face, particularly the social challenges, are almost exclusively a result of neurotypical people not coming from a place of understanding of the conditions. Society places such a high emphasis on social and emotional interactions, and perhaps if this were not the case, if the entire structure of society did not rely so heavily on complicated social interactions, then people with ASD would not be stigmatized at all, and their unique, special talents and special interests could be appreciated for the powerful traits that they are. People with ASDs are highly sought-after by employers particularly for the attention to detail in complicated systems, like computer software for example. I am here to seek feedback and input on my research!
    I do not personally have an ASD, but I am trying, as a neurotypical person, be as informed as I can be. I want to actively break down stereotypes surrounding people with ASDs and to help neurotypical people understand the conditions better so that they can make the world a more comfortable and accommodating place for non-neurotypical people. My goal is to obtain as much feedback as possible, and write a report of what all you wonderful readers have to say about my post. I want to help people with ASDs feel more comfortable in the sometimes unaccommodating world, and I want to help neurotypical people see the wonderful power in ASDs, and to inform everyone that ASD is here to stay- because science does not make mistakes and it IS biologically beneficial for the human genome.
    Thank YOU!
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
    • Friendly Friendly x 5
    • Like Like x 3
  2. SimplyWandering

    SimplyWandering Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    250
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Karma:
    +513
    Hi there, i assume this is a copy and paste? It Is very difficult to read in the format that you put it in, especially for those of us with some sort of processing disorder.

    If you could change it to a format that is more paragraph centric, you may get better responses/results.

    To answer your question though, One only needs to ask someone on the Autism Spectrum (ASD) what are the things that you excel in? some of us see the world in ways Neutotypical individuals might not even dream to comprehend - mathematically, scientifically, or maybe morally, etc. We offer a Unique perspective or point of view.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Tom

    Tom Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    5,718
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    Karma:
    +13,241
    Hi, and I welcome your choice to engage with people with the condition. I see some things I think you are on the right track with and some wrong. I can't manage long posts so hope you understand if I just approach it in pieces.

    Right track - the stigma is primarily caused by NTs

    Wrong track - Autism is not a result of any evolutionary process, though it may concievably become part in time.

    Question - What the heck does 'pleotrobpically' mean. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Camryn Nicole

    Camryn Nicole Active Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2020
    Karma:
    +8
    thank you so much for your feedback! I have tried to make it in more of a paragraph-pieced format! I appreciate your response so much, and I can't wait to share what you have shared with me in my paper.
     
  5. Camryn Nicole

    Camryn Nicole Active Member

    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2020
    Karma:
    +8
    thank you so much for your feedback! I definitely understand that it is a large read, so I appreciate the time you took to give feedback. pleiotropic refers to genes that code for multiple traits, in this context the genes associated with autism and other ASDs are also thought to code for many genes that are associated with intelligence!
     
  6. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    34,851
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Karma:
    +25,255
    Here.
    I'll paragraph it so I can read it.
    =======================
    "Hello!
    My name is Camryn! I am a university student and I have been working on a biopsychology project for the past three months. My project has been centered around Autism and other related autism spectrum disorders (ASD). As the last piece of my assignment, I am to take steps to help aid the problem that I have noticed in society, which is the stigmatization of ASDs.

    I am a very scientific person, and I wanted to ask the question, "Why, if so many people stigmatize ASDs, does it even still exist in the human genome?" One of the most fundamental and integral laws of nature is the survival of the fittest, and those genes that are passed on to future generations.

    I have been doing lots of research over the past few months to uncover the biological strength of having an ASD, and while in my readings of peer-reviewed articles, scientific journals, and personal testimonies, I have seen the evidence of the social and emotional challenges that are faced each day by people with an ASD, there is bountiful evidence of the benefits of having one of these conditions on the autism spectrum. I have discovered that there is a high number of genes related to intelligence in the human genome that are also pleotrobpically associated with ASDs, which is highly likely the main reason that it is still something that individuals can have today.

    I have come to this forum to discuss some of my findings as part of my research project. I want to actively change the stigmas surrounding ASDs by first changing the language used around these conditions. People still have ASDs for a reason- nature and biology do not make mistakes, and so I know that ASDs must have advantages for individuals who have them. The genotypic findings are likely the explanations behind the persistence of ASD.

    My personal opinion on the stigmatization surrounding ASDs is that it is a problem of society, not a problem that people with ASD have themselves. The disadvantages that individuals living with ASDs face, particularly the social challenges, are almost exclusively a result of neurotypical people not coming from a place of understanding of the conditions.

    Society places such a high emphasis on social and emotional interactions, and perhaps if this were not the case, if the entire structure of society did not rely so heavily on complicated social interactions, then people with ASD would not be stigmatized at all, and their unique, special talents and special interests could be appreciated for the powerful traits that they are. People with ASDs are highly sought-after by employers particularly for the attention to detail in complicated systems, like computer software for example. I am here to seek feedback and input on my research!

    I do not personally have an ASD, but I am trying, as a neurotypical person, be as informed as I can be. I want to actively break down stereotypes surrounding people with ASDs and to help neurotypical people understand the conditions better so that they can make the world a more comfortable and accommodating place for non-neurotypical people.

    My goal is to obtain as much feedback as possible, and write a report of what all you wonderful readers have to say about my post. I want to help people with ASDs feel more comfortable in the sometimes unaccommodating world, and I want to help neurotypical people see the wonderful power in ASDs, and to inform everyone that ASD is here to stay- because science does not make mistakes and it IS biologically beneficial for the human genome.

    Thank YOU!"
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  7. Gerontius

    Gerontius Active Member

    Messages:
    161
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Karma:
    +350
    Person-first language wastes space on your paper & does not have a place in academic writing. It is only there for the "woke" to pretend they're doing something, just like Autism $peak$ demonizes us as a waste of space and never talks to actual autistics about how to improve living conditions.

    That said, welcome to Autism Forums; you're doing OK with the general idea of society-makes-it-tough.

    Now this is a personal thing but you know how people never quit talking about racism, and it just keeps getting worse? OK, I am worried the same thing will happen with autistics; if autism becomes the woke darling du jour, that's going to be the worst thing in the world that happened to us who would really just like to be left the hell alone.

    Here are some Autism Problems I have had:
    • When I learned to drive, my leg locked up on the gas pedal frequently; I had to reach down & pick it up & drop it on the brakes. Autism affects the whole body, not just the mind. Society did not need to design a better automobile; it would do no good as I can't afford a new car anyway. Eventually my leg limbered up on its own & I can drive safely now.
    • In church (I am Catholic) the 50+ crowd insists on pandering to the younger generation with the most godawful hymns imaginable, the use of a piano in direct contradiction to Pope Pius X's Tra le sollecitudini (1903) and the mutilation of the traditional hymn lyrics. Years ago, people castrated singers. Now they castrate the lyrics. "God," to a modern hymn-editor, is not the Name of Deity, but a gender-neutral pronoun, in line with Dr John Money's idiocy about gender theory started in 1955. The love of Money, here, is the root of quite a bit of grammatical alterations.
    • The damn headlights on modern cars need to be taken off. Seriously: lighting is a huge problem for autistics, and for anyone who has photosensitivity. But all high-end cars are coming with LED projector headlamps these days, and the "bro crowd" puts them on jacked-up pickup trucks usually shining into the windshields of any traffic. Autistic motorists have a problem judging distance. That would be me. Even with my glasses on (which block blue light so the world doesn't look like a shimmery haze) it takes me a minute to tell how far away stuff is and how fast it is coming. So no problem, I drive a very old-fashioned '90s sedan with huge windows on it and it goes real slow. But at night people get tailgating or they're coming in the opposite lane with their high-beams on and I've about ended up in the ditch a few times in a car that is too old to have any driver-assist technology other than a vacuum-operated cruise control and no airbag...
    • --because autistics are often dirt poor. We are poor not because we can't work, or we have no work ethic, but because oftentimes we can't get along in the workplace. This is HUGE. I lost a job once because I lost directions going somewhere in the delivery truck, to a place that not even the shopkeepers knew where it was on the map. (All we had was a P.O. Box and a map scribbled on an envelope. I speak English, not Scribble.)
    Anyway: I think Woke Culture is going to make it really hard for Autistics in the future, and the rise of this easy-to-use technology is not helping unless we get a law for right-to-repair. Woke Culture is so easily triggered by things that it changes every day.

    New tech changes so rapidly that even though we find it kind of cool--even to the point where for many of us, it is a special interest--for those of us who like a fairly normal & conventional life it changes too quickly. It's a waste, as well.

    I could go on a lot longer; I used to write about this stuff. PM me if you want more of this perspective, or if it doesn't match what you'd already like to think, never mind.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Winner x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Friendly x 1
  8. Au Naturel

    Au Naturel Au Naturel

    Messages:
    351
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2019
    Karma:
    +648
    Balanced polymorphism. It is the same principle as sickle-cell anemia. A little helps and a lot hurts. I am pretty confident that many other supposedly maladaptive, low-frequency traits persist for the same reason. The benefits of having a few nerds outweigh the disadvantage of the more intense -and less frequent - levels of autism.

    Likewise, I think that in a small tribal unit, if Joe is a little different there isn't such a stigma. That's just how he is and he's still included as part of the family. I suspect the Aspie end of the spectrum isn't such a disability until you're required to interface with large numbers of strangers in a competitive setting.

    Autism isn't as simple as sickle-cell. It doesn't have just one genetic locus, it is polygenic, hence we see a broad spectrum of expression. There may be epigenetic factors, variations in the uterine environment, and external environmental factors that influence it. It is rather more like height in those regards.

    You could have half the genes for autism and still not notice any behavioral differences. It gets complicated when multiple gene complexes get involved.

    It is pretty clear that by the time one is born the trait is already active by nature and we can only affect how it is expressed by nurture.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. Au Naturel

    Au Naturel Au Naturel

    Messages:
    351
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2019
    Karma:
    +648
    "Now this is a personal thing but you know how people never quit talking about racism, and it just keeps getting worse? OK, I am worried the same thing will happen with autistics; if autism becomes the woke darling du jour, that's going to be the worst thing in the world that happened to us who would really just like to be left the hell alone."

    Absolutely. I am not a puzzle for some do-gooder neurotypical to solve nor a project to be undertaken. I hate that "puzzle" ribbon they use for a logo.

    As far as I can tell, "woke culture" is just another social club that I'll never be welcome in except as a token.


    "We are poor not because we can't work, or we have no work ethic, but because oftentimes we can't get along in the workplace. This is HUGE."

    Hit the nail on the head there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    3,878
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +5,529
    There are actually three types of stigma we face,
    1. Neuro-diversity: Like intellectual giftedness, ASD1s think differently. It is a difference; not a defect.

      It is very common for "gifteds" to have ASD1 as a consequence of asynchronous development, though not all ASD1s are gifted.
      As a member of both camps (twice exceptional, 2e), I can tell you that ASD1s who are not gifted function very much like gifted people, just without a qualifying IQ.

      They tend to be specialists rather than generalists, making them innovators in their field, even if it is more narrow.
      Out-of-the-box thinkers have always been stigmatized.
    2. Epidemic brain damage: ASD1s (and gifteds) have slightly more sensitive immune systems. We are more susceptible to certain kinds of brain injury than NTs are.

      Before the Millennials, that source of injury, while unknown, occurred very rarely. Some sources say 1:1,000, while others say 1:10,000. These are now diagnosed as ASD2 & 3.
      Starting with the Millennials, that occurrence has gone up to 1:200-250.

      The number of hereditary ASD1s has not changed. The incidence of neo-natal brain injury has. And that is due to an increase in some as-yet, unverified toxic exposure in modern times. (Thimerosal has been ruled out.)
      These victims of brain injury are stigmatized as they have always been.
    3. Conflating the spectrum: Because of its drain on community resources, intense research has gone into #2 cases. Along the way, ASD1 (#1, above) has been identified as being a related condition.

      We flew under the radar, before that, but you can find us throughout history & in family histories, if you look hard enough.
      Experts can make a clear distinction between autism with complications (ASD2/3) & autism without (ASD1), but everyone else (including Autism Speaks) thinks that the latter must be a mental illness, too, since it is "on the spectrum."
      As a result, ASD1 gets further stigmatized by association with #2.
    In each case, the (base) autism is the same. What is novel about Millennial autism is the unprecedented incidence of severe complications on top of said autism. That is what needs to be addressed, medically-speaking.

    MORE at Autlanders, Thriving Outside of the Box: Autism Subtypes...
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
    • Useful Useful x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Tom

    Tom Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    5,718
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    Karma:
    +13,241
    ASD comes from many different gene variants/mutations. About 100 have been identified so far, with more very likely to be identified before long. You can get those from two basic ways, from your parent(s) or environmental factors. The enviromental factors are things that disrupt the accurate duplication of the genome creating the mutations. The most study supported factors I've seen identified so far are the parents exposure to pesticides, pollution and older age of the father. If you got it from your parents it is likely still to have originated from a environmental factor, just one that occurred with their parents or further back the family tree.

    They tend to hit two main areas of the genome that affect the child's development and altered brain functionality. The results in each individual are very varied. Depending on which mutations you have there are an astronomical ammount of combinations. Developmental issues that result might be things like late speech development (or not at all), intellectual disabilities, while altered brain functionality presents in various processing and interaction symptoms (or none at all).

    Some are unlucky and are at much of a disavantage and need a lot of support. Others struggle but can get by (often just) with some help. Many get by on their own, overcoming their struggles one way or another. Some are fortunate enough to be able to turn the difference into a positive strength.

    But few would tell you it is not an additional lifelong battle on top of the standard challenges everyone, NT and ASD faces in life.

    To be evolutionary it would have to give some advantage that increases our survivabilty and reproduction rate. There is no evidence of that I have seen in studies.

    The cause of increased ammount of diagnosis's is still very debated. Is it a real increase or just increase in identification. I suspect it is both, but the root cause is mainly environmental poisoning.

    As an analogy, in Asia an insect was identified that had developed a increased immunity to a pesticide be used. Not only that but was using it as an addition to the venom in it's own sting.

    Odd things happen when you mess with nature.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. Giraffes

    Giraffes Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    573
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2020
    Karma:
    +933
    Hi i don't have the knowledge or correct terms to discribe as eloquently as some of the members here do concerning Autism and N/D thinking however this forum has given me a sence of belonging and community for the first time in my life (i'm 56 years old) Most counsellors and professionals in my experience had little understanding of Autism, some seeing it as a deficit that needs removing, this led to myself paying for a private diagnosis at the age of 40. What i believe needs to change is employers and colleagues acceptance of 'difference' as 'doing the job' in a often committed and informed manner has never seemed as important as 'fitting in' understanding social and communication 'norms' these 'differences' have been a factor in securing (and often being fired) from jobs where i'm underemployed and often experience hogh levels of anxiety and depression, not all people with Aspergers are male, techies,and introverted no disrespect or insult intended to any-one who may percieve themself that way.
    More research and change of the diagnosis criteria is needed for women as although understanding has increased many women due to differing presentation to men go unnoticed, i'm not the series of labels that N/T individuals has attached to me throughout life, i don't need 'curing' and wish that just once the 'positive about disability' had a degree of authenticity about it as opposed to just being a box to fill out (or not if i have any sence) on a application form, my 'great gifts' and 'benefits of Autism' ummm unsure at this point.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  13. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    3,878
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +5,529
    [​IMG] (If that were the case, the special education chairs would have already been occupied, just under a different label.)
     
  14. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    3,339
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Karma:
    +4,166
    I'm guessing that you have some references to back up some of what you have stated here? The way you have put it sounds as if you thought it all up yourself, and normally that's not what is wanted from an assessed assignment.

    I just don't have any idea what you are basing your opinions on, so although you say you are very scientific, I am not seeing it. It's great that you are interested, though, and good luck with your assignment.

    One obvious point relating to stigma would be, the term, Autistic Spectrum Disorder. The term signifies a Disorder. The term itself is stigmatising.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Gerontius

    Gerontius Active Member

    Messages:
    161
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Karma:
    +350
    "The term signifies a disorder" because it is a disordered state, and objectively disordered states may be labelled as such so that science can study them and make it easier for everybody to live. I am sorry you feel that way about it but if one is offended by science, then there really is no hope for their use of rational objectivity.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    3,878
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +5,529
    That is true for scientists (who are objective & dispassionate), but not for the general public whom we must live among (who are not).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Greatshield17

    Greatshield17 Catholic Nerd

    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    Karma:
    +159
    Subscribed.

    There a few things I've want to asked and explain, but it's getting late here and I haven't yet read everything on this thread.

    I'll be back tomorrow when I have time.
     
  18. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    3,339
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Karma:
    +4,166
    I'm not sure what you mean, I m referring to the general publics understanding of the term, and social stigma doesn't come about for rational reasons.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. Gerontius

    Gerontius Active Member

    Messages:
    161
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Karma:
    +350
    I don't agree on changing the words just to appease, but I most certainly agree now that you say where you're coming from.

    If we change the classification then the people who hate us will just use the new words. Hateful people don't hate words. They hate other people.

    And I do think it is a disordered state, based on the physical symptoms, brain abnormalities, and other oddities that make the autism experience what it is, but I do believe in an all-knowing God who only allows "bad" things to happen that something better might come of it. And what's more, autism is not morally wrong; it's just a state of existence explained by the laws of science as a differently ordered (or, disordered) state of the body. So I see no contradiction or problem, and do not think giving in to appease the ignorant is a good idea. That's what happened with the U.S. coronavirus response. And that's kind of a mess!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. Alexej

    Alexej Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    884
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2019
    Karma:
    +700
    Is there much used of ASC where condition is used instead of disorder? I have not seem this acronym much used.

    What is others' experience?
     
    • Like Like x 1