Autistic Opinion - Greta Thunberg ~ Autistamatic

[mw2530]

No. I thought it was a well thought out satirical comment. The idea of there being an index of people who specifically died from falling off roofs whilst fitting solar panels I thought was genius. I'm curious why you ask?

Ok, good to hear. I just wasn't sure given the division of opinions within this thread. I thought someone may have been making fun of the statement that nuclear is a very safe form of energy given the public fear of nuclear plants.

 

[mw2530]

Below is another good article discussing climate change and how it is an issue, but the issue is being exaggerated by some.

Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

 

[theconservativeaspie]

I want to have a reasonable discussion with her. I can relate to her in many ways.

 

[Skids]

My concern for Greta is that she seems extremely driven and motivated for this one great cause but what will her resolve be when she eventually discovers that no amount of campaigning can ever change the selfish, greedy and myopic motivations of world leaders.

Only the leaders of the world's most powerful countries can stall climate change IMO as it will take instant and drastic / radical measures which none are prepared to do.

I accepted this a long time ago. The planet is already doomed because humans aren't prepared to save it. It really is as simple as that in my opinion. Human behaviour is not conducive to a harmonious and stable planet.

We can all do our little bit but it's all futile ultimately due to the inaction and fear of radical action from world leaders.

Once Greta has exhausted all avenues and nothing has changed then this is when I fear for her mental health. Realizing and having no choice but to accept that although she knows what needs to be done to save the planet, those with the power to do so just aren't interested.

It's like banging your head against a brick wall as they say.

 

[mw2530]

I accepted this a long time ago. The planet is already doomed because humans aren't prepared to save it. It really is as simple as that in my opinion. Human behaviour is not conducive to a harmonious and stable planet.

Maybe. Maybe not. No one knows for sure. Humans certainly have placed a great deal of stress on our planet. But human's have solved a lot of big problems and have been proven capable of tremendous accomplishments. Sometimes we don't take the easiest or best route.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

It is not science we need anymore, it's a heart and soul and an awakened consciousness to change our ways. It is this human-centric focus that has got us into the climate-change crisis in the first place - humans playing zero-sum games with every other living thing on the planet. Absolute egocentric megalomania and species-ism, fostered in some cultures more than others, over centuries. The appalling bigotry that human lives matter more than animal lives or tree lives. Or that humans are on top of the evolutionary pyramid. Taken by some as so self-evident that alternatives are unconscionable. How convenient for humans.

I agree Greta's message makes many people uncomfortable because it challenges their values and demands that they change their habits, comforts, conveniences or lifestyles. I've seen people use a welter of ways to 'attack the messenger' e.g., "Greta is unstable and mentally fragile/unsound" (from everything I've seen, she is not); "Children shouldn't be telling adults what to do"; "Adults are putting ideas in her head" (no, children in different generational cohorts are often born with different values and consciousness from the generations before - cf the 5-year-old girl in Ireland who refused off her own bat to eat "animal people" when her parents plied her with roast turkey); "She needs an education so she can debate the issues better" (this is just a delaying tactic). Notice how they attack her rather than engaging with her message. Projection, projection, projection.

Are these mutually exclusive? - "a workable solution based on science" vs. "stop doing the things we do"?

To me, the solution is stopping 2 things and starting 1 thing:
1. Stop using plastic (supermarkets and shops need to take the lead in this, and governments need to stipulate EARLY deadlines for changing policy, not lazy 10-year time-frames as we don't have that long when there are animals in the oceans and other ecosystems dying as I write).
2. Stop eating animals (apart from being more humane and healthier, this will lower carbon emissions). I don't understand why "No more cows" is ridiculous. Slaughtering a sentient being who values its life as much as we do ours would be "ridiculous" if it weren't so barbaric.
3. Start planting indigenous trees. We're never going to change our lifestyles to the point that we stop flying and driving, so the least we can do is plant trees on a MASSIVE scale. I'm sure it will be the main past-time of children in years to come - ditching the social media and planting trees as though their lives depended on it, which it does. I was pained to spot a headline today about 5 elephants starving to death in Zimbabwe due to drought. If that image doesn't spark a sense of urgency and impending change in people, nothing will.

I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think we shoulds stop eating animals altogether. Humans are omnivorous by nature, and killing animals for food has never been humane. However, we should limit the amount of cows in farms and slaughterhouses. We won't be reducing the emissions from meat producers by stop eating animals, since that'd just mean there would be more cows to release gasses (yes, much of the pollution from such businesses do, in fact, come from animal farts). Eating meat isn't barbaric or inhumane. It never has been. It's completely natural for humans to do, just like it is natural for us to eat an apple or cabbage. Humans have been not only hunting and killing, but also raising and farming animals for food for millennia. It'll never stop. We can keep the planet healthy without having everybody to stop buying meat from the grocery store, hunting, etc.

Also, I don't see planting trees becoming an extremely popular past-time anywhere with anybody.

 

[Aeolienne]

Greta is the first international "poster child" for a cause such as climate change.

Up to a point... Back in 1992 the then 12-year-old Severn Suzuki addressed the Rio Earth Summit:

Although her focus was more on biodiversity than climate change. The closest she came to discussing climate science was mentioning the hole in the ozone layer, although by that time this issue was pretty much resolved (as I believe I have mentioned elsewhere). One might have thought that as a Canadian Severn would have heard of the Montreal Protocol.

As for Greta - having listened to her own account of her gap year I'm amazed at what her father is prepared to put up with. Could someone explain what camping out in sub-zero temperatures at Davos is meant to achieve? And it does strike me as rather odd that she insisted on being driven everywhere in the USA - one might have thought that she would have wanted to raise awareness of what rail services that do exist.
Summer with Greta (BBC Radio 4)

 

[Desertphile]

There's been some nasty things said about Greta Thunberg. Whether you agree with her stance on climate change or not...

Ms. Thunberg does not have a "stance" on human-caused climate change; Ms. Thunberg agrees with the evidence.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Ms. Thunberg does not have a "stance" on human-caused climate change; Ms. Thunberg agrees with the evidence.

The United States is the only place where climate change is made into a political issue, simply because people like car manufacturers can't spare a few extra bucks to make their vehicles more fuel efficient, while companies from other nations just simply adapt and accept the loss of a couple thousand dollars as a necessity. People are more often to drive foreign-made cars because they tend to be more fuel efficient.

 

[Kit]

Well, all the forest fires we have just had here is proof we are having climate change and I had been hearing for years how there will be lot of wild fires. We were finally begging for some rain. Same as for rising oceans and homes falling into the sea.

The United States is the only place where climate change is made into a political issue,

I thought this was world wide because there are climate deniers everywhere.

 

[Streetwise]

Well, all the forest fires we have just had here is proof we are having climate change and I had been hearing for years how there will be lot of wild fires. We were finally begging for some rain. Same as for rising oceans and homes falling into the sea.




I thought this was world wide because there are climate deniers everywhere.

I think it's the amount! of opinions that come from people who are American

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Well, all the forest fires we have just had here is proof we are having climate change and I had been hearing for years how there will be lot of wild fires. We were finally begging for some rain. Same as for rising oceans and homes falling into the sea.

Yeah, there are drier conditions and rising oceans as a result of global warming, which can lead to flooding, drought, and low crop yields, which not only affect human lives, but will harm the economy, as well. You'd think people would be extremely concerned by increased risk of flooding, drought, and low crop yields

I thought this was world wide because there are climate deniers everywhere.

if a company is large enough, it can get away with evil stuff and environmental damage. If more people realize the pollution risks of coal & nuclear powerplants, offshore drilling, and factory and vehicle emissions, then more and more people will realize that global warming, in fact, is not political. It's very real...It will kill everything on the planet if it gets out of hand.

 

[mw2530]

What I find ironic is that many (not all) who complain about climate change, few of them are willing to take small personal actions to be more environmental friendly. The vast majority of cars on the road in the U.S. are either trucks or SUV's rather than smaller or medium cars that are more efficient. People say they want change, but few are willing to make any sacrifices themselves. It is always someone else that should be doing something. Or there is always some evil rich man or evil corporation or industry that is to blame. And a lot of people do not even make the effort to recycle easy items, rather they throw them in the trash. Or even worse, can't even make the effort to throw trash in a trash can. Seems to especially be a problem with all these disposable masks now. And I am not necessarily against people driving large vehicles. But many do as a status symbol and not for a practical purpose. But it is annoying when they say that they are very concerned about climate change. No, actually, your actions do not indicate any concern. I see people of all kinds and beliefs that are unwilling to do anything themselves to improve the environment.

 

[Magna]

My concern for Greta is that she seems extremely driven and motivated for this one great cause but what will her resolve be when she eventually discovers that no amount of campaigning can ever change the selfish, greedy and myopic motivations of world leaders.

Only the leaders of the world's most powerful countries can stall climate change IMO as it will take instant and drastic / radical measures which none are prepared to do.

I accepted this a long time ago. The planet is already doomed because humans aren't prepared to save it. It really is as simple as that in my opinion. Human behaviour is not conducive to a harmonious and stable planet.

We can all do our little bit but it's all futile ultimately due to the inaction and fear of radical action from world leaders.

Once Greta has exhausted all avenues and nothing has changed then this is when I fear for her mental health. Realizing and having no choice but to accept that although she knows what needs to be done to save the planet, those with the power to do so just aren't interested.

It's like banging your head against a brick wall as they say.

I know this was posted awhile ago, but it's a good point.

I feel the same about Bob Dylan. His early songs such as Masters of War, Blowin In The Wind, A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall and others were direct hard hitting appeals to humanity to change its ways. I assume he really believed in those things when he wrote those songs. Humans didn't change. I think in some ways Dylan changed, became more reclusive, etc as a result of few people heeding the messages in those kinds of songs.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I have just published a new video wanting to inspire Greta Thunburg to begin public support advicating terraforming the Sahara Desert into a man made rain forest and possibly Nikola Tesla's free energy.

I stand corrected! I've just read in a book called 'Nuclear Power for Beginners' (1978) by Croall & Sempler that "...by the Christian Era the forests of northern Africa and the Middle East had all but vanished - gone to fuel, building timber and farmland... Today we know these regions as desert." (p. 9).

The page goes on to say: "People shouldered their bags, moved on to Western Europe and spent the Middle Ages cutting down all the trees there instead... Strangely, they didn't start clearing the North American continent until modern times... and there's still some virgin forests in Siberia and the amazons..."

The cartoon shows a lumberjack thinking: "Yeah, we're getting round to them..."

This reminds me of some interesting quotes that someone with the username of "deindoctrinator" posted on a Daily Mail article (bold added by me):

deindoctrinator, reading, United Kingdom, 2 hours ago
"In a section of his Notebooks entitled Prophecies, vegan Leonardo predicted the modern carnivore: "There will be no bounds to their malice; by their strong limbs a great portion of the trees in the vast forests of the world shall be laid low, and when they are filled with food the gratification of their desire shall be to deal out death, affliction, labour, terror and banishment to every living thing; and from their boundless pride they will desire to rise towards heaven, but their excessive weight of their limbs shall hold them down, Nothing shall remain on the earth or under the earth or in the waters that shall not be pursued, disturbed, or spoiled, and that which is in one country removed into another. And their bodies shall be made a tomb and the means of transit of all the living bodies which they have slain." He then proceeds with a curse."

deindoctrinator, reading, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
"Leonardo was born in 1452. He was vegan (not just vegetarian). In his Notebooks (published by OUP) he describes the human carnivore as follows: King of Animals, as thou has been described. I should rather say, King of Beasts, thou being the greatest, because thou dost only help them in order that they may give thee their children for the benefit of thy gullet of which thou hast tried to make a sepulchre for all animals.----Now does not Nature produce enough simple vegetarian food for thee to satisfy thyself? And if thou art not content with such, canst thou not by the mixture of them make infinite compounds as Platina describes, and other writers on food."

deindoctrinator, reading, United Kingdom, 1 hour ago
"The Abrahamic religions have promoted the abuse of 'soulless beasts'. Arthur Schopenhauer condemned Christianity as follows: "Shame on such a morality that is worthy of pariahs, and that fails to recognize the eternal essence that exists in every living thing, and shines forth with inscrutable significance from all eyes that see the sun!" On the Basis of Morality ----Arthur Schopenhauer."

Animal rights activists blockade McDonald's only UK burger factory with trucks and bamboo obstacles | Daily Mail Online

 

[Raggamuffin]

Maybe I was in the wrong frame of mind - but I thought one day I'd see what she was all about. I think it must've been on Youtube, clicked a link and heard her talk in a bleating manner. Switched it off after one sentence. I found it annoying.

Mind you, I'm all for people pushing hard to help save the environment. I'm still of the mindset that it needs to be done moreso by force. We don't need new phones every 2 years, millions of bottles and cans of drinks made every year etc etc. Our lifestyles are riddled with too much unnecessary choice. Consumerism will be the death of us.

Ed

 

[Aeolienne]

I have just published a new video wanting to inspire Greta Thunburg to begin public support advicating terraforming the Sahara Desert into a man made rain forest and possibly Nikola Tesla's free energy.

Maybe you'd be better off enlisting someone with proper scientific or engineering credentials, like Yewande Akinola, Amory Lovins or Charlie Paton - Greta has stated that she intends to study social science at university.

 

[Aeolienne]

Interview with Greta Thunberg in last Saturday's Guardian

 

[Ken]

My concern for Greta is that she seems extremely driven and motivated for this one great cause but what will her resolve be when she eventually discovers that no amount of campaigning can ever change the selfish, greedy and myopic motivations of world leaders.

Once Greta has exhausted all avenues and nothing has changed then this is when I fear for her mental health.

I am not really concerned about Greta’s resolve or mental health after realizing her campaign will not change minds sufficient to save us. That is because I am confident that Greta already knows that no effort on her part or any other persons or institutions part is going to save us. I think she is already well aware that the human species or at least the general human culture is or has become (eons ago) suffering from a terminally chronic case of narcissistic greed. Even more important, I am sure she is also aware that the most basic issue is human infestation of the planet and that regardless of intent or effort, the infestation alone exceeds the planets resources and regulatory limits.

In most or all of Greta’s speeches and talks I have listened to; it is easy to see she has a burning question as to why are we doing this. Since she has obviously studied the Earth and atmospheric science, I’m sure she would have also studied the human element as well.

I also can see why, if she does understand that failure is imminent, that she would continue or even increase her efforts. Not only is it instinctual, but also personally comforting to fight to the end.

 

[Magna]

I am not really concerned about Greta’s resolve or mental health after realizing her campaign will not change minds sufficient to save us. That is because I am confident that Greta already knows that no effort on her part or any other persons or institutions part is going to save us. I think she is already well aware that the human species or at least the general human culture is or has become (eons ago) suffering from a terminally chronic case of narcissistic greed. Even more important, I am sure she is also aware that the most basic issue is human infestation of the planet and that regardless of intent or effort, the infestation alone exceeds the planets resources and regulatory limits.

In most or all of Greta’s speeches and talks I have listened to; it is easy to see she has a burning question as to why are we doing this. Since she has obviously studied the Earth and atmospheric science, I’m sure she would have also studied the human element as well.

I also can see why, if she does understand that failure is imminent, that she would continue or even increase her efforts. Not only is it instinctual, but also personally comforting to fight to the end.

I do hope she "fights to the end" and I do think she's at least taking her message to the right group (ie the decision makers, policy makers, world leaders, the "elite", the rich). Keep in mind if climate activists push for radical changes to the lives of the masses rather than focus equally (if not more so) for radical changes to the lives of the elite, the rich, etc first, then the reality is that we'd end up having a new sickening class system more so than we already do.

No private jets
No sprawling estates that consume excessive resources
On and on, etc.

People shouldn't beg to be controlled by a ruling class that would be exempt from the same controls (people shouldn't beg to be controlled, period). That would be weird, sad and unsettling.