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Asperger’s or bad person

J

JJ19

New Member
Anybody got links or info on the bad things people with Asperger’s can do. I have done some awful things in my life. Some individual actions and some repeated behaviours. I don’t want to look for excuses but I do want to know how much of an influence Asperger’s had on some of the terrible things I did. I do just know if I was young or stupid, Asperger’s influenced mistakes, or if I’m an awful person. But whichever one I need to know.

I remember a quote from a guy charged with a criminal offence. He did something and said he didn’t mean anything by it. Said he had Asperger’s and at times things that seemed like a good idea really weren’t. Not sure if he was just avoiding his own culpability. Not sure if that’s what I am doing either.
 
I've heard an autistic person use naivety and a lack of empathy as a defense. The harm he did was indirect and abstract in a sense. Im pretty sure it didn't work, but I can see it.

Also JJ you seem to be in a toxic shame cycle? You can only change how you are today. You seem to want to change, most people can't be bothered.
 
I'm curious as to why you want to associate autism with malice. It's not a good look for you or the group it pertains to.
 
He's asking whether there is a link between autism and criminality. There are no stupid questions. I dont think there is a link though. Someone will be along to say autistics are more likely to be the victim of crime in a bit.
 
JJ19 said:
Anybody got links or info on the bad things people with Asperger’s can do. I have done some awful things in my life. Some individual actions and some repeated behaviours. I don’t want to look for excuses but I do want to know how much of an influence Asperger’s had on some of the terrible things I did. I do just know if I was young or stupid, Asperger’s influenced mistakes, or if I’m an awful person. But whichever one I need to know.

I remember a quote from a guy charged with a criminal offence. He did something and said he didn’t mean anything by it. Said he had Asperger’s and at times things that seemed like a good idea really weren’t. Not sure if he was just avoiding his own culpability. Not sure if that’s what I am doing either.
Click to expand...
See my reply to your other post about guilt: Guilt complex

With autism comes difficulty learning social rules or even perceiving that a social framework exists. Without that understanding, society can be like a minefield. Others know where the mines are, but you don't.

I have had a lot of social interactions blow up in my face. Honestly, the worst part isn't the mistake itself - it's realizing on my own, hours, days, or months later, that what I did or said was rude, insulting, or broke some social rule. My first reaction is to think I am bad, that I blew it, and that this is a permanent bad mark on me. But that doesn't help me at all. The best thing I can do is learn from the experience and do better next time.

It turns out that's what everyone does. There is no social setting in which everyone is perfect. There is no job where everyone is perfect. There is no relationship where everyone is perfect. We all - NTs and NDs alike - make mistakes and have to learn from them.

To dwell on our mistakes is hell. To learn from our mistakes is to progress toward heaven.
 
@JJ19 always remember that as a group, we have the same propensity to demonstrate positive, negative, and neutral behaviors (as @VictorR said above). Thinking about the ways that Asperger's symptoms may have contributed to your past behavior may be helpful, but it is not a simple explanation. Every person on the spectrum will think and act differently depending on their life experience, their worldview, their culture, supports available to them, and so many other things. There is no specific correlation between autism and bad behavior and the former should never be used as a simple explanation for the latter.

I think that a more important consideration of your Asperger's at this point is how to move forward. From several different threads, it seems that you are understanding what sort of behaviors and habits you have that you want to change. Understanding yourself better, including how you experience autism, could help you to set a path forward that will allow you to process and express intense emotions (loneliness, anxiety, anger, etc.) and maintain healthy boundaries (create healthy relationships in your life).

For example, some of us here have realized that in order to fully understand and process our emotions, we need a good amount of time each day in a calm and quiet environment away from sensory and social stressors. For my part, without this, I can become unduly irritated, confused, impulsive, and resentful. If I do not get my quiet time, I do not function well and sometimes make choices that I wish I didn't.

It really sounds like you are looking for change and I think you can start that process right here by hearing various stories from others with autism and how they have dealt with some of their own challenges. Look to autism as a small detail that can help you set a course forward rather than something that will forcibly determine how you will behave.
 
It is not your fault.
Lots of bad behaviours cam result from your disability.
Does not make you a bad person.
Forgive yourself and be kind to yourself.
You are loved and not a bad person, everyone makes mistakes.
 
JJ19 said:
Anybody got links or info on the bad things people with Asperger’s can do. I have done some awful things in my life. Some individual actions and some repeated behaviours. I don’t want to look for excuses but I do want to know how much of an influence Asperger’s had on some of the terrible things I did. I do just know if I was young or stupid, Asperger’s influenced mistakes, or if I’m an awful person. But whichever one I need to know.

I remember a quote from a guy charged with a criminal offence. He did something and said he didn’t mean anything by it. Said he had Asperger’s and at times things that seemed like a good idea really weren’t. Not sure if he was just avoiding his own culpability. Not sure if that’s what I am doing either.
Click to expand...

Firstly. There are a few things you need to do:

1. Consider other people's situations more carefully, before assuming thier stated condition is wholly the cause. Because people can use thier condition as an excuse to get away with anything, when they may actually have a psychological reason, in their upbringing, for doing the acts they do. Point being, having aspergers, high functioning autism, full blown autism, or something in between has nothing to do with being a criminal.

2. NO ONE is automatically bad for having ASD or any other condition. If anyone tells you otherwise, they are bullies and generally incorrect. Either out of ignorance and/or out of fear of your uniqueness. It is as @VictorR said. Everyone has the capacity for doing good or evil things. No one is excluded from this fact.

3. Self-blame and loathing are a heck of a drug. We NDs are very prone to doing this to ourselves because of how exclusionary the world around us can feel. But no one, YOU OR ANYONE, with ASD is lesser for having it.

Secondly. I feel you are in a similar boat to me. Wanting to blame yourself for things that are and aren't in your control. You can change the things that are in your control for the better:

Like your approach to certain situations, how you handle yourself in public, how you handle yourself around people, how you face your emotions, how you face your intrusive/negative thoughts, etc.

But you cannot change the things that are not in your control:

Like how people handle themselves, how they react your words and/or you in general, how socail structures function, how rules are enforced, etc.

The game of life is just that. It about charting the best course to avoid unnessissary obstacles, but also finding a way to breakdown and overcome the obstacles that halt our own progress in life. Not all obstacles are going to be easy to overcome, but they can be still overcome. And never set yourself short because of self-belief and the harmful words of others.
 
Nervous Rex said:
See my reply to your other post about guilt: Guilt complex

With autism comes difficulty learning social rules or even perceiving that a social framework exists. Without that understanding, society can be like a minefield. Others know where the mines are, but you don't.

I have had a lot of social interactions blow up in my face. Honestly, the worst part isn't the mistake itself - it's realizing on my own, hours, days, or months later, that what I did or said was rude, insulting, or broke some social rule. My first reaction is to think I am bad, that I blew it, and that this is a permanent bad mark on me. But that doesn't help me at all. The best thing I can do is learn from the experience and do better next time.

It turns out that's what everyone does. There is no social setting in which everyone is perfect. There is no job where everyone is perfect. There is no relationship where everyone is perfect. We all - NTs and NDs alike - make mistakes and have to learn from them.

To dwell on our mistakes is hell. To learn from our mistakes is to progress toward heaven.
Click to expand...

This guy is trying to link autism with criminality. Setting that aside, and with great patience, I will instead address the "social rule" issue. I don't want you guys to get the impression that there are hard or fixed social rules. There aren't. It's possible that sometimes you were rude, or you overlooked some very common and standard convention. However, social interaction is really complicated, and there is no hard or fixed rule to cover every situation, and so a given interaction can be viewed from various perspectives. For example, who has the time to sit and anticipate every possible inference someone could draw from a statement, and maybe one or more of those could be seen as confrontational or unpleasant. But then, simultaneously, you're expected to be fluent and natural and responsive. That's nonsense. Often, what it boils down to is; there are no rules, but you are the "weirdo", so the scale is always tipped against you. Many times, what you find, is that you took an unusual route by your nature, it showed someone something they didn't enjoy discovering, so they invoke their outrage because you were "rude" or "inconsiderate", when you all you did was participate in a discussion. It's not always your fault. Let them say what they like. Often you know it's not your fault because they're so ashamed of their own judgment, they won't say it to your face, they turn around like you don't exist, and try to erase you from their memory.
 
Emotional regulation issues and potential for poor impulse control. In the wrong situations that can and will get you into trouble.

To quote a 2022 article:

"It is estimated that approx. fifty percent of people in prison have a neurodiverse condition."

That's from a UK site.

So it's not an excuse to justify why people commit crimes. But it would be interesting if police and judges took into real consideration the genuine life struggles involved with being neurodiverse in a society that's catered towards neurotypicals.

Personally, I've worried for a long time that one day my intrusive thoughts eventually take form in the real world. Truth is, it'd only take one snap to see a person imprisoned.

From the perspective of the police or courts, they'll look at the crime committed. And trying to explain it from the perspective of decades of mental health struggles, masking and desperately trying to fit in - doesn't really seem to make much of a difference when it comes to sentencing.

Ed
 
It's easy for others and yourself to attach a "moral diagnosis" to you. If you are unaware of the underlying condition (autism) or motivations, certain personality traits common to autism can be falsely misinterpreted as selfishness and narcissism, for example. At the core of it is this concept of "Theory of Mind" deficit, sometimes called "mind blindness", but in effect, often times behaviors are without thought or consideration of how others may interpret what one says or does. Sometimes we are too "quick-witted" for our own good. Sometimes, even if we do take pause, we still haven't a clue how another will process what you say or do, despite our efforts. Sometimes, we aren't picking up on all the subtle nuances of non-verbal communication from another person, then say or do something that ends up blowing up in our faces. Sometimes, even when we do consider "The Golden Rule" of not doing something to someone else that we wouldn't like having done to us, which sounds great, but in practice, when you are neurodivergent and do not think and process social and communication input like others, someone else may get really upset with you, and when they explain why, you still don't understand it. You may be like, "I would have never, in a million years, interpreted it THAT way."

It's difficult to be autistic, because even if you consciously take the time to slow down your thinking and be as considerate a human being as you can, taking in perspective and context, being aware of cognitive biases, you still may think differently, still may have "mind blindness", still may have social naivety, and still not be processing non-verbal communication. Things can escalate quickly and catch you off guard.

If the people you are communicating with are not taking all THAT into perspective, they will be quick to falsely accuse and misinterpret.
 
Raggamuffin said:
Emotional regulation issues and potential for poor impulse control. In the wrong situations that can and will get you into trouble.

To quote a 2022 article:

"It is estimated that approx. fifty percent of people in prison have a neurodiverse condition."

That's from a UK site.

So it's not an excuse to justify why people commit crimes. But it would be interesting if police and judges took into real consideration the genuine life struggles involved with being neurodiverse in a society that's catered towards neurotypicals.

Personally, I've worried for a long time that one day my intrusive thoughts eventually take form in the real world. Truth is, it'd only take one snap to see a person imprisoned.

From the perspective of the police or courts, they'll look at the crime committed. And trying to explain it from the perspective of decades of mental health struggles, masking and desperately trying to fit in - doesn't really seem to make much of a difference when it comes to sentencing.

Ed
Click to expand...
The police tend to see a declaration of a developmental disability as a pitiful excuse and have no real empathy for the stress of having such a condition.
 
Raggamuffin said:
Emotional regulation issues and potential for poor impulse control. In the wrong situations that can and will get you into trouble.

To quote a 2022 article:

"It is estimated that approx. fifty percent of people in prison have a neurodiverse condition."

That's from a UK site.

So it's not an excuse to justify why people commit crimes. But it would be interesting if police and judges took into real consideration the genuine life struggles involved with being neurodiverse in a society that's catered towards neurotypicals.

Personally, I've worried for a long time that one day my intrusive thoughts eventually take form in the real world. Truth is, it'd only take one snap to see a person imprisoned.

From the perspective of the police or courts, they'll look at the crime committed. And trying to explain it from the perspective of decades of mental health struggles, masking and desperately trying to fit in - doesn't really seem to make much of a difference when it comes to sentencing.

Ed
Click to expand...
The problem here is that if a roomful of people slaps you in the back of the head, they're fine with it, but when you haul off and treat them in kind, then you're like an animal, and nobody wants to listen to your spastic autist-noises which only condemn you more, since you obviously don't know what you're talking about ever. I struggle to find peace with the horrible way that people behave. I don't know what is happening in the world, but I only see it getting worse and worse. If anything, the stereotypes receded, but the behavior gets worse because people seem to have no awareness of what they're doing or how they're treating others.
 
Suffering begets suffering.

The wars and chaos in the world - just look to the histories of the people. Traumatised people inflicting trauma on others.

There's a lot of healing to be done in the world. Unfortunately those who pursue power are often similar types, and they become corrupted by the powers they receive.

Round and round we go.

Ed
 
I take responsibility in the fact l know right from wrong. If it's a grey area, l just stay away from it. Society has rules to keep everybody accountable. Is what you are going to do, going to cause you to be arrested? Then don't do it. I don't need to assign blame to the fact l am ND or NT.
 
Maybe we could stop feeding the beast and drop this topic. Nobody in their right mind would claim a psych defense knowing how that system actually works. It's a backdoor to justice that powerful people exploit to hurt and coerce people outside the rule of law. I don't know what kind of irresponsible mind comes in here and opens not one but two threads on the topic of whether autistic people are more criminal, and furthermore whether they can use their tendencies as an excuse. Let's change it from "autistic" to [insert race, creed, or gender] as a thought experiment, then let's maybe respond to the topic as appropriate.
 
Raggamuffin said:
"It is estimated that approx. fifty percent of people in prison have a neurodiverse condition."
Click to expand...

In the article, did that mean "ASD" as the primary cause, or was it a correlation, or did "Neurodiverse" include "Dark Triad, ASPD, etc? Until just now I thought "ND" wasn't mostly used for ASD, but the wikipedia article suggests that might be the case.

There's a set of people who are not "NT" that cause a very large proportion of the "bad things" in society.
The words "Neurologically Atypical" could be accurately applied to them.
I don't believe we're part of that group, except perhaps as an effect of comorbidities.
 
Hypnalis said:
In the article, did that mean "ASD" as the primary cause, or was it a correlation, or did "Neurodiverse" include "Dark Triad, ASPD, etc? Until just now I thought "ND" wasn't mostly used for ASD, but the wikipedia article suggests that might be the case.

There's a set of people who are not "NT" that cause a very large proportion of the "bad things" in society.
The words "Neurologically Atypical" could be accurately applied to them.
I don't believe we're part of that group, except perhaps as an effect of comorbidities.
Click to expand...

"One of the challenges has been the breadth of the term ‘neurodiversity’ which covers so many different conditions."

"Neurodiversity is an undeniably complex area. There is no universally accepted definition, the range of conditions potentially falling under the banner is broad and their effects are wide-ranging. Comorbidity adds further complexity. This means that it is difficult to be sure about the numbers or proportions of neurodivergent people within the criminal justice system (CJS), or to what extent they are over-represented. However, based on the evidence provided to this review, it seems that perhaps half of those entering prison could reasonably be expected to have some form of neurodivergent condition which impacts their ability to engage."


Ed
 
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