ABA Therapy?

[Autistamatic]

I'm consulting with a couple of respected autism experts elsewhere right now, and you know what - they agree that NO form of ABA is compatible with neurodiversity since, as their own advertising states, it seeks to "normalise the individual".

 

[Ylva]

This is about a new type of approach called the Verbal Behaviour approach which we do. Many many clients have benefitted from this new method of approach and have seen many amazing affects.

No one but you benefits from your abuse of us. Looking more neurotypical is the opposite of a benefit. You do not pay the price.

 

[Isadoorian]

I can't help but find it quite peculiar that someone would come and revisit such an old thread that's over 2 years old to tote their ABA crap about... I'm sure they'll be making some more rather controversial comments and the like in the near future if this person decides to stick around

[gets his Jumbo Popcorn Bag 6000 ready for consumption]

 

[Progster]

I'm consulting with a couple of respected autism experts elsewhere right now, and you know what - they agree that NO form of ABA is compatible with neurodiversity since, as their own advertising states, it seeks to "normalise the individual".

Exactly - we don't want to be 'normalised', we want to be accepted.

 

[Autistamatic]

I can't help but find it quite peculiar that someone would come and revisit such an old thread that's over 2 years old to tote their ABA crap about... I'm sure they'll be making some more rather controversial comments and the like in the near future if this person decides to stick around

[gets his Jumbo Popcorn Bag 6000 ready for consumption]

Unfortunately @Isadoorian they've promoted their "services" elsewhere on the forum in the same manner. Must be some new marketing strategy for them.

 

[Isadoorian]

Unfortunately @Isadoorian they've promoted their "services" elsewhere on the forum in the same manner. Must be some new marketing strategy for them.

ah... yeah they won't last too long then if they keep it up [begins to stuff his face full of popcorn]

 

[Autistamatic]

It would seem that the Dr Barbera, quoted in this business's response to criticism, believes that training chickens is a suitable method of learning how to alter the behaviour of autistic people. Way to go on the respect for dignity and diversity!

If anyone is still unsure about ABA, here's another research based article worth reading. Perhaps @Healis Autism Centre should take note themselves.

10 Rhetorics of Applied Behaviour Analysis (ABA)

 

[Judge]

From Pavlov's dog to Barbera's chickens.

Do you think that Tomás de Torquemada would have heartily approved? Maybe not. He probably preferred more conventional and speedy methods of coercion. Though in his case most of his "test subjects" probably didn't survive the process anyways.

 

[Mia]

Three years ago this video set ABA therapy back a decade in Canada:

'It was the ultimate betrayal': Mom reacts to video discovery of therapist's 'rough' handling of autistic son | CBC News

 

[china autie]

Perhaps @Healis Autism Centre should go somewhere else to tout their brand rather than getting "free advertising " here???

 

[Vatblack]

The ABA my daughter, my husband and I attended was not traumatic at all. My daughter wanted to go. I felt that my husband and I was taught how to let her be herself and accept the things that we could not change but only manage. We played a lot of board games to demonstrate to her how NT people act in situations like that. When she would tantrum for not getting her way, we would not give in and let her have a turn when it was not her turn, but we'd explain how fairness works. It did not stop her form having the impulse again but all it would take is a "remember about fairness" reminder to get her back on track. Of course, that would not work 100% of the time. So, it we progressed from an inordinate amount of punishments and time outs to a collaborate effort where we worked as a team and we let her in on it. We'd give her immediate rewards for doing her morning routine without any hassles so that by now, 4 years on (and we only had a 10 week session when she was 5 years old) she gets up and does her morning routine and still gets her 20 minutes of tv/games before school.

Really, it has made our lives so much easier. But it was not the only therapy we did. We also did playgroups run by speech pathologists designed for teaching social norms, she had speech pathology sessions at school, she had occupational therapy, she joined a Tae Kwondo after school club (for the activity and the discipline that comes with it).

My take away from the experience was really that ABA taught us as parents to understand our child's impulses better and how to deal with it.

 

[Ylva]

That's what all the NTs say. "Oh, she wanted the bribes (which we offer her because she wants them) that means she must have loved all of the humiliation we put her through to get them!" Never changes.

 

[Autistamatic]

Often NT parents will talk of "kind" ABA, how it was based on rewards, sharing, gentle reminders and coaxing. They talk of how their children are so much more "normal" now, yet they completely miss the point.

ABA is brainwashing, pure and simple. Religious cults draw in their members with kindness, acceptance, community and (false) promises. They are still cults, they still brainwash their members, and the end result is very often PTSD.

The same is true of ABA survivors. There are a couple of "success stories" told by autistic survivors of ABA who make a very decent living out of speaking at ABA conferences and doing interviews as a result. There are also thousands of stories of survivors who suffered cPTSD for the rest of their lives, and some who didn't survive - those who took their own lives after being told living a lie was the only way they could live. The weight of evidence is not on the side of ANY form of ABA.

I'll leave you with this from the founder of ABA:

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Often NT parents will talk of "kind" ABA, how it was based on rewards, sharing, gentle reminders and coaxing. They talk of how their children are so much more "normal" now, yet they completely miss the point.

ABA is brainwashing, pure and simple. Religious cults draw in their members with kindness, acceptance, community and (false) promises. They are still cults, they still brainwash their members, and the end result is very often PTSD.

The same is true of ABA survivors. There are a couple of "success stories" told by autistic survivors of ABA who make a very decent living out of speaking at ABA conferences and doing interviews as a result. There are also thousands of stories of survivors who suffered cPTSD for the rest of their lives, and some who didn't survive - those who took their own lives after being told living a lie was the only way they could live. The weight of evidence is not on the side of ANY form of ABA.

I'll leave you with this from the founder of ABA:

View attachment 53019

I think the phrase is 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.'

Parents often need to think they are helping and when that help is offered they're not in a position to turn it down.
Perhaps are also easily convinced.

As we know, it is not an easy thing to understand - ie the manifold differences.

That ABA guy is basically calling is sub-human.

Although he is right. I have hair,a nose and a mouth.

the therapy is basically applying massive pressure to 'mask' the symptoms, it seems.

You'll know better than me.

 

[Autistamatic]

Those of us who learn to mask as a survival skill without intervention from dubious treatments or therapies, usually end up cracking in the end. It's happened to me more than once and the last time will be the last time. I don't mask any more. Take me as I am or don't take me at all.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Take me as I am or don't take me at all.

How long do I get to decide?

Don't rush me

 

[Starfire]

I don’t think it’s fair to judge or be critical of parents because they made the decision to try ABA with their child. The fact is parents are criticised by one community if they try to get help for their children, and they are criticised by another if they don’t!

I doubt any parent thought ‘oh look, ABA will screw my kid up and traumatise them for life,
it sounds great where do I sign up!’

IMO parents who try this are often at their wits end and do what they think is best for and will work for their child. Also worth remembering is that a child on the spectrum, often inadvertently becomes the centre of a family due to their needs, often to the detriment of siblings, and I say that from experience. Is it fair that other children in a family end up feeling like ‘second class citizens’ because an autistic child takes up so much more time, resources, attention etc etc from parents while brothers or sisters have to learn to take a back seat and look on, I don’t think so. This may also be a reason parents think ‘therapy’ to help their child ‘fit in’ is positive.

Would I take my child to ABA?, definitely not.
I’m trying to teach my AS child to be strong, confident and independent and not to have a victim mentality or accept being bullied because they have a difference. I encourage a focus on strengths and attributes and not to single out ‘odd or strange’ behaviour to work on which will damage self-worth or self-esteem. I do this party because one day, I won’t be here anymore to take care of or guide her, she will have to do it by herself as I have had to.

I don’t encourage masking or hiding anything, be who you are, do what you want, suppress nothing and those that love you, love you for who you are. People will come and people will go but as long as you are happy to be with and live with yourself, and your own rules and sense of right and wrong, f*** all the rest.

I don’t think a little compassion towards parents who try to do their best for their child even if it might be the wrong thing to do, is a bad thing. No doubt some will find my parenting inappropriate or incorrect, I don’t care what other people think, I’m trying to do my very best for my child as I see fit. Time will tell me if I’m doing a good job or not, not other people.

 

[Vatblack]

Let me ask a sincere question here:

I am not clear how I am telling my child to mask who she is. So, explain what you mean by that, please. (I'm asking, not demanding)

In my opinion, the ABA I did with my daughter was respectful of her "quirks" as NTs would interpret it. However, where her behaviors would hurt the feelings of those around her and leave her friendless, I tried to find solutions for her that would help her deal with those situations (because she loves having friends and it devastates her when people no longer want to play with her - as children would do if they have had enough of a certain type of response from other kids). For example, she has a habit of pushing anyone out of the way when she wants to get to a place where that person is. Then, at the same time, she is not aware when people give her a look or a tone that warns her that she is in danger of ending up in a fight. In kindergarten one of her classmates stabbed her with scissors in frustration when she repeatedly pushed him out of the way and did not understand he was getting frustrated with her.

We used ABA to train her to recognize the things that will make people violently angry around her for her safety, not to mask who she is.

Here is another example of what worried us: My daughter used to ignore people if they talked to her and she felt it didn't apply to her - in fact, I was often asked if she was deaf as a result. At a playground one day, she was playing and minding her own business. My husband was nearby. A boy started accusing her of stealing his wallet that he had left lying around. (Now keep in mind, these children were 4 and 5 years old at the time, so impulse control is out of whack all over the play.) My daughter ignores him. She did not steal the money, so she did not react to him at all. Not even a look. He started talking louder and louder and was about to go over and physically do something (whatever that would have been, we don't know either). My husband stepped in when he realized what was going on defused the situation. She could seriously have been hurt that day too.

We simply had to let her understand that it is imperative to respond to people because it could literally save her life. ABA and other therapies helped her understand when it was needed to speak up and when her behavior would anger other people - even others on the spectrum (like the boy with the scissors for example).

So, are these examples masking who she really is or teaching her that these particular impulses could land her in trouble?

I am partly trying to explain myself, but more than that, I want to understand what it is that you (collective you) feel is asking you to change to the point of depression. Because that is the last thing I want to impose on my daughter. I am prone to depression and anxiety myself, so I do not want to impose that on my child.

 

[Ylva]

If it's neither traumatizing nor dehumanizing then it's not ABA. You already expressed that you understood there was something apart from "reward-based", and even that is dehumanizing. Now you say that all you did was explain NT culture to her in a way she could understand. So, all that is left is to congratulate you on successfully executed insurance fraud, and asking you to please stop advertising it as ABA.

 

[Starfire]

Let me ask a sincere question here:

I am not clear how I am telling my child to mask who she is. So, explain what you mean by that, please. (I'm asking, not demanding)

In my opinion, the ABA I did with my daughter was respectful of her "quirks" as NTs would interpret it. However, where her behaviors would hurt the feelings of those around her and leave her friendless, I tried to find solutions for her that would help her deal with those situations (because she loves having friends and it devastates her when people no longer want to play with her - as children would do if they have had enough of a certain type of response from other kids). For example, she has a habit of pushing anyone out of the way when she wants to get to a place where that person is. Then, at the same time, she is not aware when people give her a look or a tone that warns her that she is in danger of ending up in a fight. In kindergarten one of her classmates stabbed her with scissors in frustration when she repeatedly pushed him out of the way and did not understand he was getting frustrated with her.

We used ABA to train her to recognize the things that will make people violently angry around her for her safety, not to mask who she is.

Here is another example of what worried us: My daughter used to ignore people if they talked to her and she felt it didn't apply to her - in fact, I was often asked if she was deaf as a result. At a playground one day, she was playing and minding her own business. My husband was nearby. A boy started accusing her of stealing his wallet that he had left lying around. (Now keep in mind, these children were 4 and 5 years old at the time, so impulse control is out of whack all over the play.) My daughter ignores him. She did not steal the money, so she did not react to him at all. Not even a look. He started talking louder and louder and was about to go over and physically do something (whatever that would have been, we don't know either). My husband stepped in when he realized what was going on defused the situation. She could seriously have been hurt that day too.

We simply had to let her understand that it is imperative to respond to people because it could literally save her life. ABA and other therapies helped her understand when it was needed to speak up and when her behavior would anger other people - even others on the spectrum (like the boy with the scissors for example).

So, are these examples masking who she really is or teaching her that these particular impulses could land her in trouble?

I am partly trying to explain myself, but more than that, I want to understand what it is that you (collective you) feel is asking you to change to the point of depression. Because that is the last thing I want to impose on my daughter. I am prone to depression and anxiety myself, so I do not want to impose that on my child.

Based on what you wrote about your experience of ABA it’s not what people here will be thinking of. Some ABA is quite extreme and undeniably upsetting for children. Having to endlessly repeat a dull task and being chastised for any mistakes, and forced to repeat again and again through tears and distress until it’s done to the the instructors satisfaction is more of what people will be thinking, I presume.

What you are describing sounds more like role play with encouragement, talking and explaining. It doesn’t sound like your child is forced to suppress stimming or other self soothing behaviour as is often the case in ABA.

I can identify with both the examples you gave as we had the same. Neither of them are examples of masking. Not helping your child understand what went on ‘behind the scenes’ will no doubt lead to further difficulties. If they are to live and be successful and prosperous in a NT world then we need to teach them the rules of the game.

Depression also is very common amongst people on the spectrum and the parents, who try to help and do their best. As I said, we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t.
You know your child better than anybody else, you know if what you are doing is helpful and working or upsetting and abusive, and if it were the latter I have no doubt you would withdraw her.