your goal

[Johnny]

Don't look for Ms. Right, look for Ms. Right Now. Ask her to go see a movie, and don't expect her to have your baby. You need snuggling and hugs. That medicine will alleviate your depression and make you more attractive so when she breaks up with you, you will have an easier time finding the next one. Also, you're only asking her to see a movie with you, so you won't be as nervous that one misstep could ruin the rest of your life, only the rest of your evening.

If she interrogates you, tell her you'd rather talk about the movie. If she backs off, thank her for doing so, and appear relieved that she backed down. If she apologizes, clarify that it is okay, you were only worried that she would blame you for objecting.

 

[Spinning Compass]

I am not sure what you mean by "if she interrogates you." In my experience, asking questions about each other is part of the process of getting to know one another. It sounds like you are just looking for someone you can go out with once or twice, no commitments, no strings, no give-and-take, just it is all about you and what you want, and when it is over, move on. Which might be ok, but that is not why most people go out on dates.

Also, I can't say for anyone else, but for me, "snuggling and hugs" are things I prefer to reserve for someone I feel a genuine connection to, not someone I just met and don't know very well. In other words, snuggling comes later, after a relationship has been established. I realize that not everyone feels that way, but personally, I don't like feeling pressured into doing something I don't feel. Yes, I can do it, but it is all an act. Sadly, I have found that that is what a lot of people want, the act, and not the real person. I can't live like that, at least not for very long.

 

[Judge]

Being evasive in any relationship strikes me as asking for trouble. Doing so at the prospect of any relationship- maybe the kiss of death.

In my youth that would have been something I might overlook. Now I'd consider honesty and transparency a critical component.

For a long- or short fling with much of anyone.

 

[Soup]

Don't look for Ms. Right, look for Ms. Right Now. Ask her to go see a movie, and don't expect her to have your baby. You need snuggling and hugs. That medicine will alleviate your depression and make you more attractive so when she breaks up with you, you will have an easier time finding the next one. Also, you're only asking her to see a movie with you, so you won't be as nervous that one misstep could ruin the rest of your life, only the rest of your evening.

If she interrogates you, tell her you'd rather talk about the movie. If she backs off, thank her for doing so, and appear relieved that she backed down. If she apologizes, clarify that it is okay, you were only worried that she would blame you for objecting.

Upon what 'wisdom' is your fundamentally flawed advice predicated?

"...That medicine will alleviate your depression and make you more attractive so when she breaks up with you, you will have an easier time finding the next one." - Johnny

WHAT?!? If some guy has DEPRESSION that he needs to ALLEVIATE, he needs meaningful therapy to help tease out the causes of his depression (life problems? Health/nutritional/sleep problems? PTSD?) & possibly MEDICATION to help alleviate his symptoms.

The very last thing such a guy or girl should do is follow your creepy, predatory & selfish advice. People seeking to date or eventually become serious with someone, regardless of that person's sex or gender need to consider what their motives are & be honest about them, & they must consider the needs of that other person! So YOU have a list of needs from the get-go that you expect a casual date to satisfy BUT you want to be vague & evasive & see any efforts your date makes at getting to know you (hopefully before letting you paw all over her) as an 'interrogation' ?!? Dates are not just a way for some selfish depressed person to use someone's body to get a 'snuggling & hugs fix' for their own self-medication purposes.

By what magic will a date, during which you use someone to get 'medication' transmogrify you into someone more attractive so you find the next 'one' more readily? With all due respect, as a mother with a young adult daughter, I took the unprecedented step of showing her your post. I have never had her read a post on here before. Your pathetic 'how to get your needs met by someone whilst utterly ignoring their needs & feelings' advice is irrelevant to me: I have been married for a long time now, happily, to a fellow Aspie who is NOT utterly self-absorbed. BUT, I wanted her to see this & be even more aware of the motives of someone she lets into her life. IF a guy is completely evasive but wants to use her for anything whatsoever (a walking anti-depressant, a security blanket/teddy bear, a bank machine...), I want her to recognize it immediately: not after her feelings were hurt (& her body used in some way) by a clod like you. So far, so good. She is 22, ambitious, educated, attractive, successful & a really nice person.

I don't know what the heck is going on around the forum over the past few months, but there has been a spate of vaguely (sometimes directly) misogynistic posts that have been challenged only by a few female members & one or 2 of our more forward-thinking male members. When such posts are challenged, the female challengers face GAS-LIGHTING strategies: we are 'hypersensitive', we misunderstood the post (we are smart, educated, experienced women; not confused idiots) we are merely being 'politically correct'. I do not give a $#!T about political correctness: merely sanitizing vocabulary by the usage of modern neutral & inoffensive trendy labeling. I care very much about advice, comments, criticisms & dehumanizing remarks be they about men, women or LGBTQ people.

I've also noticed another alarming trend: male members who are quick to 'like' such posts are often the same ones who have spilled much ink about their hard luck with women, their inability to find a partner (no doubt because women are all a bunch of alpha-male-seeking gold-diggers!) & the fact that no woman will see them as more than 'just a friend'.

Want some great dating tips? Stop harboring misogynistic stereotypes: women tend not to be attracted to men who are misogynistic & give off a creepy 'ulterior motive' vibe!

Stop looking as a date as a goal & ditch the score-card mentality. Go see a hockey game if you are into goals & scoring.

Put as much effort into thinking of what positive contribution you can make to your date's experience of the evening as you put into thinking of your own needs.

If you have a bunch of fetishy, creepy ulterior motives (such as I want to use your ability to hug & snuggle to alleviate my depression..) your date will likely sense them (often from your behaviour or evasiveness).

Be sincere: if all you want is to crawl all over someone, hire a hooker! They offer every service imaginable. If you are in a depressive funk, treat it before dragging someone else into your muck-mire of misery: women are NOT distractions, tranquilizers or SSRIs! If you want to get to know another person, you have to be willing to let them get to know you. You have no business expecting physical intimacy from someone if you are unwilling to share in other ways (unless it is a 'friend with benefits' or a hooker). Do not disregard the fact that you are playing with someone's (possibly hard fought & won) emotional well-being & self-esteem & physical dignity!

Reading this post disturbed me as a parent of 2 young adults. I would hate for my kids to be jerks who behave in this way. My son is now in a serious relationship with a lovely young woman. I will be showing him this post & having a chat with him...just in case.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I don't know what the heck is going on around the forum over the past few months, but there has been a spate of vaguely (sometimes directly) misogynistic posts that have been challenged only by a few female members & one or 2 of our more forward-thinking male members.

I'm sorry if I haven't stepped up to the plate in challenging things that should be challenged.
I hate misogyny and such things as much as you: I do however, have not only a strong tendency to assume really good intentions on the part of any writer, or any person, but also an exaggerated fear of hurting people's feelings and of conflict: a fear that can lead to me wimping out when I shouldn't.

 

[IContainMultitudes]

I should probably mention that Johnny was banned a few days ago, sorry for not making that clearer sooner.

 

[Soup]

Thanks for clarifying that, ICM. One only needed to read 2 or 3 of his posts to see that, while he may have been an Aspie, he had something else going on: something very disturbing that rendered him a danger to any girl who got mixed up with him.

 

[Logic]

WHAT?!? If some guy has DEPRESSION that he needs to ALLEVIATE, he needs meaningful therapy to help tease out the causes of his depression (life problems? Health/nutritional/sleep problems? PTSD?) & possibly MEDICATION to help alleviate his symptoms.

Actually, if the reason he is depressed is because girls have been rejecting him, then taking somebody on a date should be the solution.

Your pathetic 'how to get your needs met by someone whilst utterly ignoring their needs & feelings' advice is irrelevant to me:

How selfish is it, if she is happy to have him, too? Your men-hating rhetoric is based on the ass-umption that his affection has no value to her. There are plenty of women who enjoy making men feel that way. All the cuddling in the world probably wouldn't do a guy any good if the woman does not enjoy it.

 

[Soup]

Hi Logic. Firstly, if the reason he is depressed is because he is getting repeatedly rejected by girls, (or guys too: whatever the case may be) he needs to figure out what it is he may be doing or saying that is causing different women, who did not get together to plot against him & may not even know each other, to reject him. Until he figures out what he is doing wrong, he is likely to repeat whatever blunder(s) he is making that are causing rejection...leading him back into more depression.

As for my second comment, it never even mentions men. Where is the man-hating part?

Affection likely does have value to a male or female date BUT not when said date is being secretive, refuses to allow the date to get to know him or her & has an agenda of needs he wants to get met instead. Affection (cuddling & touch) are forms of physical intimacy that emerge from a closeness shared by a couple: they do not just come automatically as part & parcel of a date to a movie & dinner. At this point, you are still relative strangers just getting to know each other. Why would some date want to be handled in any way by someone they are hardly familiar with yet? Intimacy comes with time, familiarity & trust: not popcorn & a Coke.

" People seeking to date or eventually become serious with someone, regardless of that person's sex or gender need to consider what their motives are & be honest about them, & they must consider the needs of that other person! " - Soup.

This is the very next sentence following your quote. My comments had nothing to do with sex or gender, but with humanity & consideration for others. You are well within the bounds of reason to disagree with me or post a passionate opinion that is unique or that others may disagree with. However, if you call me a man-hater, you need to provide compelling evidence that your allegation is well-founded: something you have utterly failed to do.

 

[Logic]

Hi Logic. Firstly, if the reason he is depressed is because he is getting repeatedly rejected by girls, (or guys too: whatever the case may be) he needs to figure out what it is he may be doing or saying that is causing different women, who did not get together to plot against him & may not even know each other, to reject him.

Always blaming the victim. If bullies attack him in school, what did he do to provoke it? If women won't date him, what did he do to provoke them? Maybe he just needs to find a decent one who won't maliciously treat him like trash just for fun.

Logic: It is not his job to they-do-something. Do not blame him for his failure to they-do-something. He has something to offer. He will spend time with her if she will spend time with him.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Always blaming the victim. If bullies attack him in school, what did he do to provoke it? If women won't date him, what did he do to provoke them?

Not-dating someone, and bullying someone are two different things!
Otherwise I would be bullying every single man (and woman) on this forum, because I have never dated any of them!

 

[Soup]

Always blaming the victim. If bullies attack him in school, what did he do to provoke it? If women won't date him, what did he do to provoke them? Maybe he just needs to find a decent one who won't maliciously treat him like trash just for fun.

Logic: It is not his job to they-do-something. Do not blame him for his failure to they-do-something. He has something to offer. He will spend time with her if she will spend time with him.

What victim? Nobody is obligated to date someone they do not want to date. Saying 'no, thanks' to a date offer is not rejection, nor is the person asking being victimized. The person simply does not want to go out with him. If s/he were to say 'yes' & go despite not wanting to, it would be exploitative & dishonest. If the person says 'yes' to the date then repeatedly stands Harry up, cancels at the last minute or goes on the date & acts sulky & bored, it would be tantamount to victimizing him.

The women who are refusing to go out with hypothetical 'Harry' (assuming he is a regular decent guy & not a jerk) did not all call each other & gang up & say, 'If Harry asks you out, REFUSE & laugh at him!' If this unlikely scenario were to happen, then your bullying argument would make sense & blaming Harry would be wrong.

Harry is not being victimized if different women refuse him or if the dates he does get keep going badly & women refuse to go out with him a 2nd time.

It is not about blaming Harry for his predicament: it is about helping him solve his problem. Women do not just refuse to date a guy unless there are some reasons for it. Does he have a hygiene issue? A grooming issue? Does he come on too strong (touchy-feely to early on)? Is he overbearing or what? These are just a few examples. Another issue is that he may be looking for dates in the wrong environment & winding up dating women who are incompatible with him.

 

[Ereth]

Is there even any point to this argument anymore? The OP's been banned---it's not as if he'll see any of this. Let's not fight. Please.

My take: nobody who refuses a date out of simple disinterest is victimizing anybody else. If this hypothetical situation resembled something out of Carrie and involved absolute callousness, I would label it differently. But the original post advocates using others emotionally. It says nothing about a history of being used. If it happened, that's unfortunate, and I can understand why resentment would be a result. But it doesn't justify perpetuating abusive behavior.