The shocking REAL story of Methea.

[SageRose]

I don't want to confuse anyone, when I say Methea I mean the name you all know as 'Medea'. Medea is wrong however. The name is Methea, with 'th' as in 'the' in English. Since the English language happens to have the sound 'th', I never understood why Greek names with that sound had to be translated as 'd' in English. Anyway, I will explain the real story of Methea that the mainstream media either has wrong or has never bothered to put it right because the fake story 'sells' more.

So Methea writen by Eurepethes (also 'th' instead of 'd') as a drama play version, borrowed and changed by the original story as told by ancient Greek historians, was the princess in her father's kingdom Colhitha. Methea was practising magic that she had been taught by her aunt, the famous mystic, Circe as everyone knows. When Jason went to Methea's kingdom, Methea fell in love with him and decided to help him in his campaign by stealing the golden fleece and illegally leaving with Jason and his men. She also took along her baby brother Apsirtus. Her father was enraged at her betrayal and sought out to hunt them down and persecute them. Methea, in order to take revenge on and distract her father, decided to murder her baby brother, by cutting him in pieces and throwing him in the sea for her father to collect him. Now pay attention to this...it is made evident by careful study of the original script, that Apsirtus was not Methea's brother, but actually her first...child and that child was the product of her father's forceful incest with her. Her father, the king had raped Methea. Methea had portrayed an intense amount of hate for her father almost from the beginning of the story but the modern false versions of Methea's story do not capture that part, nor do they explain the origins of that hate. Moving on..

Jason and Methea were together for a while and even had kids together, but Jason never married Methea, it is estimated however that Methea was left with the expectation (or promise?), that Jason and she would get married once they'd be able to live permanently and safely somewhere.
When Jason and Methea reached Corinth, Jason, being the actual opportunist he was, decided to marry Glauce, the daughter of the king of Corinth with obvious intentions of acquiring power and wealth and be established as a powerful figure in a city-state. So in order to marry Glauce, he had to abandon Methea, which he did.
Methea feeling betrayed and abandoned by the man she risked so much to help, decided to get revenge on him by using her magic to murder Glauce.

The people of Corinth, having learnt of the crime against their princess, and not being able to accept a woman from a different city-state (it was common back then for people to not accept another person from another city-state and be extremely strict towards criminals from other cities), decided to punish Methea. They kidnapped her kids and killed them and then threw the blame on Methea. Jason, not knowing the truth believed them and also accused Methea. That is the real story of Methea. Ofc I'm not writing this to give any excuse to her (she still was a murderer- just not of her kids with Jason), just trying to restore the facts for those who are interested. I hate distortions.

Now the reason why Methea's story was erroneously passed down in several different versions from the original, was because subjects as that of incest, rape,etc.. were very taboo back then. It was and still is way easier for people to digest a story of an evil child-killing woman, than to read the story of a woman who got raped by her noble father and of an almost entire population of a city, commiting a vile crime of killing 2 innocent kids and then blaming their mother for it. Arts back in that time were not meant to insult or expose noble kings or queens. It would be highly scandalous for people to read the original story of a well known king raping his own daughter or of an entire state being responsible for an awful crime. (Ofc not all people of Corinth participated in it but still it was a major stigma for the people back then). So the mainstream versions of Methea focussed on blaming everything on the evil woman and on her alone. Ofc Methea (who I don't like or anything), was indeed responsible for the killing of a child, her first child. But we have to take into consideration that she was also a tortured woman who was most likely seeing that child as the act of violence rather than her child. There is no excuse for what she did, just noting the obvious.

Anyway I hope you enjoyed the narration of the actual story.

 

[tree]

How do you know that's the "real story"?

 

[SageRose]

How do you know that's the "real story"?

That's Eurepethes version, but historians of ancient Greece explain the real story before Eurepethes made the drama version that hid the truth about the king and the people of Corinth.

 

[tree]

That's Eurepethes version, he was the one who originally wrote Methea so his version is the accurate one.

I meant, what are your sources for that information?

 

[SageRose]

I meant, what are your sources for that information.

Ancient Greek historical scripts that explain the story of Methea.

 

[tree]

Ancient Greek historical scripts that explain the story of Methea.

Where did you find those?

 

[SageRose]

Where did you find those?

I corrected my first reply to you because I wrote something false. Sorry about that, I got confused with another chat dialogue I have lol. As for the sources, I can find them in several libraries here (Greece) and I also borrowed some of them from an old literature teacher of mine. If you're interested, I can try to see if there's any available source like them in English and I'll send you the link.

 

[Catana]

There is no real story, since Medea (any way you want to spell it), and all the characters associated with her are part of Greek mythology. Not real. Fiction. Maybe you just don't understand the difference between mythology and history.

 

[SageRose]

There is no real story, since Medea (any way you want to spell it), and all the characters associated with her are part of Greek mythology. Not real. Fiction. Maybe you just don't understand the difference between mythology and history.

Catana no offense but 1) I'd like to inform you that I'm neither brain damaged nor uneducated to not know what mythology and history are and given how this is about my country's culture, I'm pretty sure I know about it way more than you, 2) Perhaps you didn't read my post very well or didn't notice but I wasn't refering to whether Methea was a real figure or not, I was refering to the original STORY as it was first writen, before it was changed to fit a more 'moderate' drama scenario that Eurepethes wanted to present for the readers and the audience in the tragic plays. A book can be writen and then changed into several different versions later but if you want to read the original, you have to also search out the original writer and source. This is also what I was refering to.

3)Please allow me to inform you that the greek mythology was mostly poetic narrations of usually REAL events that are told in ways that are usually mixed up with exagerrations, idealizations and often bits of fantasy so that the folk tales will be easier and more entertaining for people to know and remember. Perhaps you don't know that and that would be understandable since most non-Greeks and even some Greeks, only know 'bits' of the greek mythology and history as told by Hollywood movies or the media, but the greek mythology is actually a combo of real events with ''toppings'' of idealized character traits, situations and hyperboles. Methea was an actual figure and so was Jason and his campaign. So before you insult me and randomly assume stuff, perhaps you should make a better research for them first?

 

[Catana]

Okay, I didn't accuse you of being either brain damaged or uneducated, but when every source I read says these are all mythological figures and you believe otherwise, then there's no basis for discussion. And at this point in history, I'd doubt very much whether there's any version of the story that can claim to be the original. It's a matter of interpretation and what sources you prefer to accept as true.

 

[Tom]

I like some of the stories but think it must have been hard on Helen's face to launch a thousand ships.

 

[SageRose]

Okay, I didn't accuse you of being either brain damaged or uneducated, but when every source I read says these are all mythological figures and you believe otherwise, then there's no basis for discussion. And at this point in history, I'd doubt very much whether there's any version of the story that can claim to be the original. It's a matter of interpretation and what sources you prefer to accept as true.

But the thing is that I never claimed or wrote that I was talking about the real incident, but about the original narration/story. Whether it is 100% true or not, is a matter of extensive research and investigation in the mythology and history, and if someone wants to know all they have to do is be patient because those sources aren't easily found or read. They're definitely not running around in the mainstream internet either. But those who have researched it enough have given us a lot of info about them. There are a lot of clues in Methea's story that are indeed historical and many that are also fictional. My post was meant to shed light as to the original story, which was writen BEFORE the one writen by Eurepethes and the ancient historians and writers before him all agreed that Methea had not killed her kids from Jason. This isn't a matter of what I or anyone else accepts as true, it's a matter of what is more accurate. In any case, nobody is forcing anyone to believe anything. You don't have to believe this if you don't wish to.

 

[SageRose]

I like some of the stories but think it must have been hard on Helen's face to launch a thousand ships.

Tom, I don't get what you're trying to say. If you do want me to understand your comment, elaborate. If you don't care, just ignore my comment.

 

[tree]

"...think it must have been hard on Helen's face to launch a thousand ships."

It's a joke.
A play on words.

The idea of Helen, physically using her face to launch the ships, maybe
the way people celebrate the launching of a ship by smashing a champagne
bottle on the bow.

Whereas, the story meaning is not that at all.
It is a reference to her beauty and being sought after, and
that whole war which took place.

 

[china autie]

Thank you for posting about Methea. I am glad to have the information, especially from someone who is Greek or Grecian, lives in Greece, is familiar with various manuscripts, and understands the culture or cultures (is there more than one?) Of Greece.

The conversion of th to a d is something that I can explain.

Americans in particular have lazy tongues. Over time, our interaction with language modifies the language. It is "easier" for us Americans (North Americans in paricular) to pronounce the -th in Methea as a -d.

In part, this is how language and dialect evolve. Spelling is usually the last thing to change. The word "of" is currently pronounced as if the spelling should be "ov".
Over centuries, it is probably that of will become ov on written word.

The expression that we (usa) Americans have "bastardized the King's English" is a reference to how we have taken English as spoken in the UK and modified it to our easier softer way-- lazier way-- of pronouncing and expressing it.

To complicate things further, many of us USA Americans are horribly deficient when in comes to learning other languages. In school, perhaps we are taught one other "foreign" language. I have heard that Canadian and European kids are taught more than one other language. If you live in Canada or Europe, and my information is not accurate, then please tell me.

At any rate, the idea that USA English is somehow universal or the language "that everyone should learn to speak" is outdated. I have read that German is the language to know for serious (medical) research and that Italian is the international language of business. I think there is,a real need for us to learn Mandarin Chinese and Arabic as well as French and Spanish.

I like Portuguese too because of its similarities to Spanish. I like Ialian because I can speak to someone in Spanish, they can answer in Italian and we can understand each other a bit. I like Tagalog because it has bits of many other languages in it as reflected in the history of the Philippines. I like signing (sign language for the Deaf) because there are American and European (and probably other) versions of it.

I am sorry for any misunderstanding that you have experienced by relating your excellent information about Methea. I hope for more information from you as you feel like writing it. I found your posts to be a fascinating read
And related to one of my own passions.

 

[SageRose]

Thank you for posting about Methea. I am glad to have the information, especially from someone who is Greek or Grecian, lives in Greece, is familiar with various manuscripts, and understands the culture or cultures (is there more than one?) Of Greece.

The conversion of th to a d is something that I can explain.

Americans in particular have lazy tongues. Over time, our interaction with language modifies the language. It is "easier" for us Americans (North Americans in paricular) to pronounce the -th in Methea as a -d.

In part, this is how language and dialect evolve. Spelling is usually the last thing to change. The word "of" is currently pronounced as if the spelling should be "ov".
Over centuries, it is probably that of will become ov on written word.

The expression that we (usa) Americans have "bastardized the King's English" is a reference to how we have taken English as spoken in the UK and modified it to our easier softer way-- lazier way-- of pronouncing and expressing it.

To complicate things further, many of us USA Americans are horribly deficient when in comes to learning other languages. In school, perhaps we are taught one other "foreign" language. I have heard that Canadian and European kids are taught more than one other language. If you live in Canada or Europe, and my information is not accurate, then please tell me.

At any rate, the idea that USA English is somehow universal or the language "that everyone should learn to speak" is outdated. I have read that German is the language to know for serious (medical) research and that Italian is the international language of business. I think there is,a real need for us to learn Mandarin Chinese and Arabic as well as French and Spanish.

I like Portuguese too because of its similarities to Spanish. I like Ialian because I can speak to someone in Spanish, they can answer in Italian and we can understand each other a bit. I like Tagalog because it has bits of many other languages in it as reflected in the history of the Philippines. I like signing (sign language for the Deaf) because there are American and European (and probably other) versions of it.

I am sorry for any misunderstanding that you have experienced by relating your excellent information about Methea. I hope for more information from you as you feel like writing it. I found your posts to be a fascinating read
And related to one of my own passions.

Hey Thank you for your explanation, that does make it way more clear. It was always strange to me to hear the sound 'th' as 'd' and I always thought that it was actually us Greeks who translated it wrong for some reason, as if erroneously thinking that just because 'th' in us is the 4th letter/sound, it should be translated as 'd' for you because d is also your 4th letter/sound. But in any case, Americans aren't the only ones who are lazy when it comes to their language. Sadly this is now an almost global thing. Greeks have came up with this sort of...'code language' that is called Greek-lish (Greek words and language but with English letters instead of Greek ones). They use it as a fast communication language for their phones, computers and their general web interactions. The only good thing about this silly code language is the fact that it can't be translated by someone who doesn't know greek lol. If you try to put greeklish on the google translate or in any other translator you'll come up blank, since greeklish isn't an actual language and will therefore not be recognised by the system.
I can give you lots of more info about mythology if you wish. I take it you're a fan? I'll pm you something else too if you're interested and feel free to ask me for any info or sources, I'll be glad to help

 

[Shamar]

Thank you for posting about Methea. I am glad to have the information, especially from someone who is Greek or Grecian, lives in Greece, is familiar with various manuscripts, and understands the culture or cultures (is there more than one?) Of Greece.

The conversion of th to a d is something that I can explain.

Americans in particular have lazy tongues. Over time, our interaction with language modifies the language. It is "easier" for us Americans (North Americans in paricular) to pronounce the -th in Methea as a -d.

In part, this is how language and dialect evolve. Spelling is usually the last thing to change. The word "of" is currently pronounced as if the spelling should be "ov".
Over centuries, it is probably that of will become ov on written word.

The expression that we (usa) Americans have "bastardized the King's English" is a reference to how we have taken English as spoken in the UK and modified it to our easier softer way-- lazier way-- of pronouncing and expressing it.

To complicate things further, many of us USA Americans are horribly deficient when in comes to learning other languages. In school, perhaps we are taught one other "foreign" language. I have heard that Canadian and European kids are taught more than one other language. If you live in Canada or Europe, and my information is not accurate, then please tell me.

At any rate, the idea that USA English is somehow universal or the language "that everyone should learn to speak" is outdated. I have read that German is the language to know for serious (medical) research and that Italian is the international language of business. I think there is,a real need for us to learn Mandarin Chinese and Arabic as well as French and Spanish.

I like Portuguese too because of its similarities to Spanish. I like Ialian because I can speak to someone in Spanish, they can answer in Italian and we can understand each other a bit. I like Tagalog because it has bits of many other languages in it as reflected in the history of the Philippines. I like signing (sign language for the Deaf) because there are American and European (and probably other) versions of it.

I am sorry for any misunderstanding that you have experienced by relating your excellent information about Methea. I hope for more information from you as you feel like writing it. I found your posts to be a fascinating read
And related to one of my own passions.

Actually, there is another reason why the "th" is replaced by "d" besides being clumsy to pronounce in the middle of a word. In Old and Middle English, the "th" sound was represented by the letter "thorn (Þ). As you can see, it can easily be misinterpreted as a "D." As the use of thorn went out of fashion, a transcriber might easily use a "D." I Am Not An Expert in this subject, just some interesting information I came across years ago. Too many things like this end up floating around in my brain, but occasionally they become useful.

 

[VioletEglantine]

Thank you this is fascinating! I wish I could read the original Greek! I produced/directed Lysistrata last year and so wished that I could read what Aristophanes actually wrote.

I have always thought that there was something not quite right about the Euripides version.

 

[SageRose]

Thank you this is fascinating! I wish I could read the original Greek! I produced/directed Lysistrata last year and so wished that I could read what Aristophanes actually wrote.

I have always thought that there was something not quite right about the Euripides version.

That sounds awesome Violet, I had watched Lysistrate in the theatre of Epidaurus a few summers ago. I was pretty disappointed by how 'modern' they had made that version because I'm a fan of the originals and that version I saw was taking away all the point of the play.
Yes Eurepethes took the story and gave a new more..'mild' version that was better suited to the social and political standards of that era. To put it plainly, he created a version where all the blame was thrown to one person instead of blaming a) A noble man and b) A large amount of people from a city-state, which would bring a lot of stigma and shame to both those people and those who later learned about it. In modern terms, we could say that Eurepethes version is more 'politically correct' while the original version was unmasking a lot of nasty areas of the human nature and the crime of a society against two innocent kids.

 

[VioletEglantine]

I understand what you meant but I would caution you against using the phrase “politically correct” in this context. In the US it means the opposite. Political correctness is speaking with compassion about oppressed peoples.

The Euripides version is better termed as “propaganda” or political expediency.