The problem with Dr. Hans Asperger

[WereBear]

Another possible reason the US has gone "full spectrum" and I am really a High Functioning Autistic:

The publication of a new history of autism called In a Different Key, by John Donvan and Caren Zucker, has reopened an unsettling question about the pioneering Viennese pediatrician Hans Asperger: Was he a Nazi sympathizer, or a man who paid lip service to his bosses' murderous ideology in order to save the lives of as many of his young patients as possible?

Was Dr. Asperger A Nazi? The Question Still Haunts Autism​

I am currently reading the book referenced here, which is heartbreaking and fascinating. I did not know that Dr. Asperger's bona fides were in question before he got the honor of getting a syndrome named after him. It is undeniable he worked with, and for, Nazis.

In Donvan and Zucker's view, Asperger was an ambitious opportunist who uncritically spouted Nazi ideology in his first public lecture on autism in 1938, and enthusiastically signed letters "Heil Hitler!" Most devastatingly, he signed a letter of referral effectively condemning a little girl with encephalitis named Herta Schreiber to death in a Vienna rehab facility that had been converted into a killing center by Asperger's former colleague, Erwin Jekelius.
...
While researching my own history of autism, NeuroTribes, published in 2015, I ultimately came to take a more nuanced view of Asperger as a compassionate clinician and educator working under the most difficult possible circumstances as Hitler and his henchmen rose to power.​

Which is where I lean, personally. A new book is coming out, Asperger's Children: The Origins of Autism in Nazi Vienna, that should have more information.

It is undeniable that he sent children to their death. Still, as a reader of Holocaust memoirs, I emphasize that no one saved everyone. No one could. Asperger "stuck up for" his higher functioning patients, and seemed to have gotten away with it; his "boys" were not murdered in the mad spree killings of the war years. And they easily could have been.

Herta Schreiber, it could be argued, could not have been saved. Because if Asperger had refused to send her to the killing home, someone else would have; she was brain injured in an obvious way. Her mother had given her to the home to be cared for, but they were not going to do it. There was nowhere else to send her.

And if he had refused, who would be there to advocate for the boys he was arguing should be saved?

The first Holocaust memoir I read illustrated such a "pick your battles" dilemma. An orderly found that someone had survived the gas chamber, and he and his fellow workers were able to hide her for 24 hours. But there was nowhere else to go, no other place to put her, and they had to give her up or all be killed themselves.

They had decided they had to prioritize their own survival in such circumstances. At the time, it seemed that if anyone survived to tell the world it would be a miracle, so relentless were the Nazis about extermination. There was no point to them going to their deaths for principle.

It has given me much food for thought. Are we Aspies? Can't we decide?

 

[tree]

"Are we Aspies? Can't we decide?"

I am not sure what those questions mean.
Do you mean "What's the difference, if any, between Asperger's Syndrome and HFA?"
Or "Should people on the spectrum have a voice in establishing the distinctions/variations
within the spectrum of autism?"
Or what?

 

[Streetwise]

hans asperger could have said no !that is the truth !saying he should support boys that are high functioning to not be killed is very close to nazi membership .
that makes him a sympathizer and an accomplice to murder of a girl.
no i use aspie very rarely ,usually autism.

 

[Chance]

Wow... what the sorted tales of history expose... : )

 

[LucyPurrs]

I'm infinitely grateful I've never had a deeply disturbing dilemma as that.

 

[tree]

It seems more likely that the terms have changed
to reflect a perception of continuity/similarity with
variations among the spectrum, rather than as a
result of a decades old witch hunt/smear campaign.

I agree with @LucyPurrs, as far as being grateful for
never having been involved in situation of such
ethical proportion as were people in Nazi Germany.

 

[Suzanne]

How I see it, is that the man is no longer alive to defend himself and the "evidence" comes from some documents being found, but I know with my faith, that it is easy to manipulate things ( those who used to be of my faith, often do this).

I do not have autism at all; but I know that what HE described as aspergers ( albeit in boys) I tick virtually all the boxes and ok, so I am not official yet, but I know that I do have aspergers, just like I know I have social phobia and yet, currently not officalised with that either.

 

[Streetwise]

i wonder if hans asperger was sending children to be gassed in the last year (that is what happened a hose stuck down their throats ) we would call it a smear campaign.

 

[Katleya]

The thing with history is that nowadays we tend to forget that different times mean different contexts. I haven't read the book, but I suppose/hope the authors kept that in mind when doing their research. The "choice" of refusing to join the ranks of Nazis didn't usually result in a fruitful, happy life ever after, complete with leeway to protect people that that regime deemed not worthy of living.

Could Hans Asperger have said no? Sure... and then he would have been killed, and what next? Nobody to save any children at all. While we could salute full opposition as a gutsy move by our current standards, the most that would have been achieved with that would have been martyrdom, and fewer lives saved. Or maybe he played along and put up a sympathizing front in order to be able to save however many children he could. Or maybe he was indeed a Nazi, with a thread of humanity left.
How could we know? By judging reports of things that were said or other people's perspective? Most of us here know how inaccurate other people's idea of a person can be, for example when it comes to us passing for NTs.

It reminds me of that dilemma that's studied sometimes, about the greater benefit of actions: a train is about to run over people, and the situation is either sacrificing one life to save several people, or sacrificing none but everybody dies. I'm sure there's at leadt one person here who is interested enough in psychology and sociology to further explain that concept, or to do so better than I did, anyway.

So it's not that I don't care whether Asperger was a Nazi or not, it's more that I don't trust there are enough elements left to full a form picture and to be sure of what was really going on in his head, and I'm not comfortable with either condemning or defending someone without absolute, irrefutable proof and certainty. That being said, the book does seem like an interesting read.

 

[WereBear]

I know I would get a totally different reaction if I told people I have high functioning autism compared to telling people I have Asperger’s Syndrome.

So I don’t want to give that up.

 

[Judge]

In the big picture becoming a member of the party was considered essential to those wanting to advance themselves in civilian positions of authority. Particularly with physicians who so quickly leaned towards becoming party members in the fledgling years of the Third Reich. Which left the door wide open to speculate on their actual motives. Especially considering how National Socialist doctrine on race overtly superseded a physician's loyalty to the Hippocratic oath.

I'm afraid unless someone has some universally accepted exculpatory evidence regarding the actions and research of Dr. Hans Asperger, that it's far more likely we'll never really know whether he was a man of conscience, a loyal party member or just a scientist passionately pursuing his own field of interest.

Otherwise I have to admit that there's a wide field of authors and historians out there, ready to make a name for themselves rather than legitimately attempt to salvage or sink the name of Dr. Hans Asperger without real proof.

That if anyone "buried" the man and his work, it wasn't history but rather the DSM-V.

 

[WereBear]

Do you mean "What's the difference, if any, between Asperger's Syndrome and HFA?"
Or "Should people on the spectrum have a voice in establishing the distinctions/variations
within the spectrum of autism?"
Or what?

I was inviting people to weigh in on the issue. Which we did.

And yes, we SHOULD have a voice. Enough of the Othering!

 

[Streetwise]

In the big picture becoming a member of the party was considered essential to those wanting to advance themselves in civilian positions of authority. Particularly with physicians who so quickly leaned towards becoming party members in the fledgling years of the Third Reich. Which left the door wide open to speculate on their actual motives. Especially considering how National Socialist doctrine on race overtly superseded a physician's loyalty to the Hippocratic oath.

I'm afraid unless someone has some universally accepted exculpatory evidence regarding the actions and research of Dr. Hans Asperger, that it's far more likely we'll never really know whether he was a man of conscience, a loyal party member or just a scientist passionately pursuing his own field of interest.

Otherwise I have to admit that there's a wide field of authors and historians out there, ready to make a name for themselves rather than legitimately attempt to salvage or sink the name of Dr. Hans Asperger without real proof.

That if anyone "buried" the man and his work, it wasn't history but rather the DSM-V.

ive just typed in Aspergers syndrome into a search engine every entry said Aspergers syndrome not one mention of h.f.a
ive never heard anyone in the uk mention h.f.a

 

[Judge]

ive just typed in Aspergers syndrome into a search engine every entry said Aspergers syndrome not one mention of h.f.a
ive never heard anyone in the uk mention h.f.a

Huh? I never mentioned Aspergers Syndrome or HFA in my post.

 

[Streetwise]

Huh? I never mentioned Aspergers Syndrome or HFA in my post.

You must be quoting the wrong post.

i quote if anyone buried the man and his work!!!!!!!! (Aspergers syndrome was his work )it wasnt history?but rather the DSM-V

 

[Judge]

i quote if anyone buried the man and his work!!!!!!!! (Aspergers syndrome was his work )it wasnt history?but rather the DSM-V

On this side of the pond per the DSM-V, "Aspergers Syndrome" technically hasn't existed since May, 2013.

If you want to argue that point, you'll have to do so with the DSM-V.

In the US, Dr. Asperger's research is the victim of a bureaucracy- not history. Where IMO neurological research and its conclusions has been tainted with the influence of politicians and insurers.

Though I must also point out that mass murderer Adam Lanza didn't do anything to help preserve the popular term "Aspergers Syndrome" here as well.

Whether or not qualified medical personnel choose to go outside the DSM-V is anyone's guess, though I have no idea what the professional implications are if any for those who may do so.

 

[OkRad]

I read about this guy. It is hard to say what people were like around Nazi's. People acted differently and had to postpone morality to survive. It is not excusable, but wow, the Nazi's made people do terrible things or have them done to themselves. People snap morally around abuse and systems like that.....so it's very hard to say.

However, Aspergers is no longer even a DX in the usa, at least.................

 

[WereBear]

However, Aspergers is no longer even a DX in the usa, at least.................

Yet, that is what I tell people if I want them to “get it.”

 

[Judge]

The irony of existing in most any totalitarian state is that regardless of whether you are a willing participant of not, your everyday choices in life are really quite restricted where the worst possible consequences may hover around those choices.

 

[Sherlock77]

As a person who thinks of himself as an amateur historian...

Interesting topic, without reading the book... I believe history has to be analyzed carefully, especially considering political and societal situations of a given time period (ie. in this case, WW2 Germany)

Before going any further, I will note attempts here in Canada to discredit our first prime minister, Sir John A. MacDonald, and also another early figure in Canadian history Wilfrid Laurier...

Now back to the current topic, I think people and their accomplishments should be analyzed within the context of when they lived, not the current one, which is far different... I believe the term is revisionist history and I think we have to be careful about it...

Unless the evidence is truly damning, and as noted he can't defend himself, I think he should still get credit for any research he did...

And there is still the Sir John A. MacDonald Great Canadian Kilt Skate, for six years now, and I hope the name doesn't change... And I think I would like to read that book about Hans Asperger...