Sensitive Topic The Aspie NT conflict? NTs may not be the culprit

[Epicurean Pariah]

Perhaps it is wise to hold a bit of mystery about one's self. A wolf is a loner yet he has his pack. He is cunning, patient, observant and does not howl without reason. Yes I think a wolf is a fine creature to be and, I would rather be the wolf than the sheep.

Just remember , it is a foolish wolf that causes himself to be reject by his pack. Even the wolf knows there is a time and place to be the alpha and, a time and place to submit to the pack.

And yes they are amazing animals that can teach us something if we observe and are willing to see what they have to teach us, as the three I live with have shown me over the years. Whether on two or four legs, I'm certain I can learn something from any wolf.

Beverly, I hope I have not sniffed up an inappropriate, but... I was wondering if I have caused offense by my raving and howling?

 

[Beverly]

Beverly, I hope I have not sniffed up an inappropriate, but... I was wondering if I have caused offense by my raving and howling?

Not at all, I was simply pointing out that I like wolves, you included, and I learn from the, and you. I was also reminding you that there is a time to be "just one of the pack" Not here on this site but, in life in general. Don't need my favorite AC wolf getting ran down by a herd of sheep (porverbial).

You don't howl without reason, you makes sense, whether I agree or not, I think and, I learn and, that's a good thing. In short I like you.

 

[Progster]

There is no "Us vs. Them." NTs are people. We are people. We are all in this together.

There is never a good reason to hate anyone.

This sums up the debate perfectly for me - we are all human beings - different human beings, all born onto the same planet, and it's up to each one of us to get along with each other.

 

[ancusmitis]

I see wolves as wild and free. I view myself as a wolf. Hate being told what to do, very shy around humans, but I can be surprisingly sociable if we reach some kind of common ground. And I suppose I'm a bit like a dog, in that I have expressive eyebrows and I wag my tail, but I missed out on the common communication system that humans and dogs evolved in each other's company.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

I personally am surrounded by NT's and my husband being one of them! I lived my life just thinking I was strange and not fully understanding myself and thus, pushing and facing disappointments all the time.

Actually finding out I am an aspie, both is enlightening and frightening, because I cannot put aside my aspieness to be "normal" and thus, always get into sticky situations.

I do admit that since joining this forum, I do find that a few aspies make excuses for their social rudeness and call everyone else stupid or something, which has taught me, to look at myself in depth and think: am I in the right to push how I feel social cues should be? I take a prime example of eye contact. I used to be dreadful and even now, when a conflict is at hand, I have a hard time looking the person in the eye, but I appreciate how rude it is to not look at a person when talking to them and thus, I have learned to look at someone and as it happens, my faith helps me hugely because I was put on our school ( where we learn how to talk effectively about the bible) and my work on, is rather ironic ie eye contact lol I am petrified actually and keep getting close to saying to the school overseer that I have aspergers, but keep not, which tells me that I have to do this.

The worst part is taking things literally and at first, I found it funny, once I learned I do take things literally and now, feel annoyed when I do, because what others take as no big deal, I find a big deal. Like recently, I was at a 3 day assembly and a brother said that are we not glad we are English? I felt so insulted for all the French there ( I live in France)! Well I asked a French sister about this and she laughed and said: oh, there was nothing wrong in what he said: we are, after all in an English speaking congregation! I felt so stupid that I took it on board to feel slighted for them!

My husband is constantly joking with me and after like 24 years, I should pick up on it, but to this day, I get offended and hate it!

If I could, I would love to wake up an NT!

Suzanne, let me see if I have this right the looking at someone constantly, like staring is rude. That is the white of it. Worthless
Not looking at someone constantly is also rude and that is the black of it. Worthless
Not being accepted for being a bit different by the judgmental and thin skinned is the grey nuanced equivocating miasma of it. Worthless
The world of the blissful average, is just filled with peace, goodwill and fellowship of all mankind. Just like on the world news. Priceless.

 

[Suzanne]

Suzanne, let me see if I have this right the looking at someone constantly, like staring is rude. That is the white of it. Worthless
Not looking at someone constantly is also rude and that is the black of it. Worthless
Not being accepted for being a bit different by the judgmental and thin skinned is the grey nuanced equivocating miasma of it. Worthless
The world of the blissful average, is just filled with peace, goodwill and fellowship of all mankind. Just like on the world news. Priceless.

I am finding it is a fine line between being courteous and looking at someone as they talk, to staring and find that it is when I become AWARE of looking that suddenly, I am staring! It is a very uncomfortable feeling because I have to struggle with getting a grasp of what they are saying; it is almost fascinated horror!!!

 

[Daniela]

Have you ever toght that the problem is that we may have diferent social rules then NTs the problem is that they dont want to adapt to our social rules what ever they are.
People say we arent adaptive, but I had to adapt so much to others people rules I forget my own sometimes.

 

[Daniela]

Not all social rules are illogical but certainly if it is majority versus minority it becomes a problem isn it?

Also many people not on the spectrum are hoping to wipe out the spectrum people or even mildly disabled people in one way or another.

Also it appears most NTs seem to follow rules and fail to even question why. Maybe it is a cultural thing?

Regular person sees an aplle falling from a tree.
why do aples fall from trees ? they just fall what a stupid question.
Aspies like newton : sees a aplle falling from the tree.
Why do aplles fall from tres? I dont know, but Im not geting out of here until I found out why.
See the diference?
Pardon me if I was rude.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

Have you ever toght that the problem is that we may have diferent social rules then NTs the problem is that they dont want to adapt to our social rules what ever they are.
People say we arent adaptive, but I had to adapt so much to others people rules I forget my own sometimes.

Daniela, well maybe, but I think we see social interplay literally in black and white and the NT see the entire social interplay in all the shades of grey. To reiterate the thought.
We, Aspers can understand; yes, no, maybe and I don't know. Works for us
The NTs are good with yes or no meaning maybe or maybe not, every word is nuanced and can change meaning when convenient. Works for them.
I find it hard to make friends when I do not trust their words or thoughts. Since that is the world that they live in, it is their bliss, their comfort zone.
Our honesty and integrity annoys them and they call us rude and insensitive to their thin skins, when we speak our minds.
Nuff said!

 

[Beverly]

Exactly Epicurean Pariah NTs speak in subtle variation of gray, we speak in black and white.

Ask me if I own a car and I will tell you no. If you're an NT, you think I just lied to you because I do own a pick up truck. To them that is a car but, to me a car is a car and a truck is a truck so, I do not own a car. I own a truck.

I hate when my husband says "I'm not doing anything to day." the proceeds to clean the shop, cast bullets, mow the lawn and, visit his daughter. That is doing a heck of a lot. Nothing to me means just that, nothing as is not getting out of be or not getting out of the chair you are sitting in for the entire day. To him it means not doing anything he doesn't enjoy doing.

Knowing what people mean doesn't mean I don't want to scream "Say what you mean and mean what you say!" at them when they don't do that. That's the source of my social stress. Yes I can socialize, I get it but, that doesn't mean I like it.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

Exactly Epicurean Pariah NTs speak in subtle variation of gray, we speak in black and white.

Ask me if I own a car and I will tell you no. If you're an NT, you think I just lied to you because I do own a pick up truck. To them that is a car but, to me a car is a car and a truck is a truck so, I do not own a car. I own a truck.

I hate when my husband says "I'm not doing anything to day." the proceeds to clean the shop, cast bullets, mow the lawn and, visit his daughter. That is doing a heck of a lot. Nothing to me means just that, nothing as is not getting out of be or not getting out of the chair you are sitting in for the entire day. To him it means not doing anything he doesn't enjoy doing.

Knowing what people mean doesn't mean I don't want to scream "Say what you mean and mean what you say!" at them when they don't do that. That's the source of my social stress. Yes I can socialize, I get it but, that doesn't mean I like it.

Beverly, being the troll that I am, and not a paragon of ambition, doing nothing is reading, talking while watching the box and encouraging folks on AC to open their windows and shout, ala " Network". Dig?
Doing something, is working on a stone that in all probability will outlast me, and be considered far more precious than a dim old fart like me.

 

[Epicurean Pariah]

I see wolves as wild and free. I view myself as a wolf. Hate being told what to do, very shy around humans, but I can be surprisingly sociable if we reach some kind of common ground. And I suppose I'm a bit like a dog, in that I have expressive eyebrows and I wag my tail, but I missed out on the common communication system that humans and dogs evolved in each other's company.

It's easy, it is the same as with people. It starts with eye contact,
Which leads to,who moved towards the other, first. The mover is Alpha.
Communication of words is all in tone and repetition which lulls the anxiety.
Then a soft touch in a safe area. Watch for acceptance, or rejection, a scream or a shudder will clue one in. If the touch is accepted or even reciprocated , try more words and touches, let's call this the "playing with each other game". I have no idea how the game ends, but it hasn't ended yet!
I see it as systematic, predictable and entertaining as life itself, and about as complicated as a dance.
The joy of spontaneity is in the compatibility of understanding. The ecstasy is in the the response you feel in you as you stimulate someone who is not you. It is as natural as being natural.
Or..... You can pretend that the one week of romantic illusion is forever and be devastated as the delusion collapses under the weight of reality. The thought of our being unacceptable time and time again eventually destroys the soul and then others try to make as into their image. It is sad and I is a basic source of human misery.
The romantic illusion is UNACCEPTABLE
AND ARTIFICIAL!
I came up with the above premise when I was 14. I am almost 67 now, perhaps humanity and wolves have changed in about 50 years. If so, please disregard and forgive an old useless fool.

 

[ancusmitis]

It's easy, it is the same as with people. It starts with eye contact,
Which leads to,who moved towards the other, first. The mover is Alpha.
Communication of words is all in tone and repetition which lulls the anxiety.
Then a soft touch in a safe area. Watch for acceptance, or rejection, a scream or a shudder will clue one in. If the touch is accepted or even reciprocated , try more words and touches, let's call this the "playing with each other game". I have no Odis how the game ends, but it hasn't ended yet!
I see it as systematic as life itself, about as complicated as a dance.
The joy of spontaneity is in the compatibility of understanding. The ecstasy is in the the response you feel in you as you stimulate someone who is not you. It is as natural as being natural.
Or..... You can pretend that the one week of romantic illusion is forever and be devastated, by the thought of being unacceptable time and time again.
The romantic illusion is UNACCEPTABLE
AND ARTIFICIAL!
I came up with the above premise when I was 14. I am almost 67 now, perhaps humanity and wolves have changed in about 50 years. If so, please disregard and forgive an old useless fool.

Aww, you're not useless.

I have enjoyed moments with humans from time to time. I find them curious and playful. But they are still dangerous animals, and you have to be careful.