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Sensitive Topic The Aspie NT conflict? NTs may not be the culprit

Tigris said:
No problemo

I was hoping if there is a good way to make Aspies hate NTs less. I am certain the NTs did make any of the rules that make Aspies so miserable. Maybe there are other factors involved? If there is a conspiracy especially with Autism Speaks... dun be too surprised.
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Tigris, i for one do not hate the NT. I want to held elevate and educate them. We can imagine the future and the NT need to face forward and build the future. We are in a symbiotic relationship.
There are always a few leaders and a majority of followers. Let each individual prove their merit and each do their best.
I have Diogenes, Newton, and Bill Gates perhaps, in my court.
 
Tigris said:
Btw i know my topic maybe offensive but i just wanna discuss this issue. Thankfully while not all aspies hate NTs but it is unfortunate for very good reasons why a good number of aspies hate NTs. Perhaps coming from a country whose PM sued a blogger and lacking of freedom of speech and ruled by conservatives might be one of the issues faced by aspies in Asia as a whole?
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Tigris. As a general rule eastern thinking is based on duties and cultural worth.
Western thought is based on liberties and self worth.
Some of us have learned how to think and not what to think.
 
Epicurean Pariah said:
Oh by the way I can love, comfort, play and care for my pet dog, but I really don't think we understand each other. What do you think?
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I think the main ingredient in the special Human - Canine relationship is called parallel evolution. Canines on an evolutionary path of their own developed many similar traits as humans. For instance dog packs have a lot of similarities to human family groups, which was our basic social organization until fairly recently in our history. They developed similar roles and hierarchies to resolve basic organizational needs. Social bonding behaviors evolved to improve the cohesiveness of the group. We are both omnivores, and for a long time similar as hunter-gathers vs hunter-scavengers.

So when we interact, we can treat them as a sort of subservient human and they can treat us as the alpha dog. All the basic elements of understanding/relating are there. Remarkably our pyschologies are also so similar that dogs can often take human psychological medicines.

But the relationship is limited to the extent of the dogs capabilities.
 
Tom said:
I think the main ingredient in the special Human - Canine relationship is called parallel evolution. Canines on an evolutionary path of their own developed many similar traits as humans. For instance dog packs have a lot of similarities to human family groups, which was our basic social organization until fairly recently in our history. They developed similar roles and hierarchies to resolve basic organizational needs. Social bonding behaviors evolved to improve the cohesiveness of the group. We are both omnivores, and for a long time similar as hunter-gathers vs hunter-scavengers.

So when we interact, we can treat them as a sort of subservient human and they can treat us as the alpha dog. All the basic elements of understanding/relating are there. Remarkably our pyschologies are also so similar that dogs can often take human psychological medicines.

But the relationship is limited to the extent of the dogs capabilities.
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Tom, my dog can eat and poop providing he has plenty of rest. Come to think of it, that is your point of parallel evolution. At my age I eat and poop providing I get plenty of rest.
 
So True Epicurean Pariah. I fear the reaction if even the secret Aspies I know all came out at once and, I'm quite certain there are more than I know about in that closet. Each and every one very high profile, talented, powerful, wealthy individuals.

No one wants to see it but, throughout history, a strong case can be made for many of the best and brightest being on the spectrum, perhaps not enough to be clinically diagnosed as Aspies but, many have or had many Aspie characteristics. NT tend to see even one Aspie trait as a sure sign you have ASD and, to them, that's a disease, a defect and it's terrifying when they realize they are wrong, some of the people they admire most are, or likely were Aspies - that's not how it's supposed to be, the weak aren't supposed to be the strong, the deficient aren't supposed to be the most capable.

Once they know us, we prove to be living, breathing, talking, thinking contradiction to their ideas of what should be and, that's about as scary as if your refrigerator suddenly read your mind and cooked the perfect meal for you all by itself - it just isn't supposed to happen that way, the world can't work like that, but it does.

[Now will someone please invent that refrigerator because I could really use one. LOL.]
 
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I don't enough about evolution to voice an opinion about if aspies are or not. If you are, I'm okay with that, as many other NTs would be. Not afraid. However, I don't like being compared to a Neanderthal or a dog. Also, you seem to want to dominate/ take over? World domination? :eek:
Also,how many of you are happy when someone assumes you're stupid or even call you retarded? I don't believe I need enlightening either. I study on my own by my own motivation. As many NTs do.

I just going to post an old thread. Is Aspergers the evolved/elevated human being ? | AspiesCentral.com
 
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Wireless said:
I don't enough about evolution to voice an opinion about if aspies are or not. If you are, I'm okay with that, as many other NTs would be. Not afraid. However, I don't like being compared to a Neanderthal or a dog. Also, you seem to want to dominate/ take over? World domination? :eek:
Also,how many of you are happy when someone assumes you're stupid or even call you retarded? I don't believe I need enlightening either. I study on my own by my own motivation. As many NTs do.

I just going to post an old thread. Is Aspergers the evolved/elevated human being ? | AspiesCentral.com
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Wireless. Personally I don't have the time or the energy to dominate the world, although I tend to think that educated technocratic socialism is worth a try.
Why would sane and caring people want a blood bath when the gradual trend of evolutionary progress and the improvement of the species is inevitable.
Do you think that H. Sapiens actually targeted the Nthals for a purge?Well I guess they did, occasionally, but more often it was a case of making love not war. That is why we all carry Nthal DNA in our genes.
I would hope that as AS and NT learn about what we all have to contribute to the pool party and play nice.
If some folks think that they can call some of the best and brightest diseased, but they themselves are so thin skinned and touchy that they can't take a hit just proves the point I am making.
Edit- ps thank you for your suggested thread I will read, and I offer another thread started by Harrison about the Neanderthal and AS, I just woke up and have not finished coffee, but if you seek you will find.
 
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The reason I typed that I don't like being compared to Nthal is because in post 39 you suggested that NTs are upset as their role as Nthals. I am not. As I said in post 47 I'm happy with people on the spectrum being more evolved.

I apologize to have upset you so much.
 
I am aware that many see autism as something to be pitied, feared or "cured". Which is all wrong.

I correct people if I overhear something false about autism. Does that count as advocating? Otherwise I worry about speaking up too much for autistics when the autism community doesn't speaking for.
 
Wireless said:
The reason I typed that I don't like being compared to Nthal is because in post 39 you suggested that NTs are upset as their role as Nthals. I am not. As I said in post 47 I'm happy with people on the spectrum being more evolved.

I apologize to have upset you so much.
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Wireless , thank you, you must be kidding me. I am not in the least bit upset. I am a 67 year old churlish curmudgeon.
Writing on this forum is one of my favorite forms of entertainment, and since I wake up at the crack of noon it is too early to smoke and drink.
I seldom seek out agreement because I learn little from those I agree with. The deep thought and debate has dramatically improved my mental acuity in about 2 months. As a matter of fact one of my best friends, Maelstrom, and I agree on few points but we stimulate and are each others respectful loyal opposition.
Perhaps there may be something in this post that is worth thinking about when the issue arises about differences between NT and Asper thought processes.
Edit/ ps I could care less what any person on this chaotic ball of mud thinks, believes or says. These are all deeply personal issues. I do care about what people do. The action makes an abstract, concrete!
 
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I have to completely disagree with the idea that people with ASD are more evolved. If anything it leans more in the opposite direction.

Evolution is simply a new random mutation model having some survival advantage over the previous one and eventually replacing it.

All measurements of all people with ASD show the opposite. Lower lifespan, greater unemployment, lesser partnering, fewer children, more institutionalizing, etc, etc.

Can individuals buck the trend and have a very successful career and life? Sure, its actually very common. But its uphill much of the way and is going to take extra effort. Is one out of a million occasionally a genius. Yes. But those and their NT counterparts never lead to a new evolution. They are too few and their effect individual.

Has the number of ASD people increased? Probably, but not because of greater success and out competing others. One reason is improved health care and society health systems. But the main factor that makes new Aspies is most likely the poisoning of their pregnant Moms with pesticides, pollution, chemicals, etc, that disrupts normal brain development, these poisons being the products of the modern age. And as these numbers grew so too is it then passed on in increased numbers hereditarily.
 
Epicurean Pariah, I agree with what you say about learning through debate.
I enjoy being one of few NTs on a forum for autistics. It's healthy for me to learn about different thought processes and communication differences.
 
Tom said:
I have to completely disagree with the idea that people with ASD are more evolved. If anything it leans more in the opposite direction.

Evolution is simply a new random mutation model having some survival advantage over the previous one and eventually replacing it.
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Agreeing with what you said, Evolution isn't about "better" or "worse" it's just about "producing more offspring". That's all it is. Aspies probably produce less offspring than NTs, as we tend to be less successful in regards to romantic relationships. (Although some Aspies do end up in happy relationships/marriages. But as a group, we're not that great at it).
To repeat, evolution doesn't mean something is better than what came before. It only means that thing had more offspring, and the offspring likewise had more offspring.
 
Tom said:
I have to completely disagree with the idea that people with ASD are more evolved. If anything it leans more in the opposite direction.

Evolution is simply a new random mutation model having some survival advantage over the previous one and eventually replacing it.

All measurements of all people with ASD show the opposite. Lower lifespan, greater unemployment, lesser partnering, fewer children, more institutionalizing, etc, etc.

Can individuals buck the trend and have a very successful career and life? Sure, its actually very common. But its uphill much of the way and is going to take extra effort. Is one out of a million occasionally a genius. Yes. But those and their NT counterparts never lead to a new evolution. They are too few and their effect individual.

Has the number of ASD people increased? Probably, but not because of greater success and out competing others. One reason is improved health care and society health systems. But the main factor that makes new Aspies is most likely the poisoning of their pregnant Moms with pesticides, pollution, chemicals, etc, that disrupts normal brain development, these poisons being the products of the modern age. And as these numbers grew so too is it then passed on in increased numbers hereditarily.
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Tom, I appreciate that you have the courage to state your opinion.
Perhaps because it is fresh in my mind I am referring to a light reading comic book called "Discover" July/ August 2015 issue. The story I reference is titled, " a users guide to rational thinking", by Pat Kinsella. The first sentence reads; "We're programmed for irrational thought.
That may be the case but some do not embrace and empower emotionally influenced thinking.
The socially equivocating have distractions and diversions to play in. The socially inept have their minds to play in because if you are honest, we are not made welcome in the NT playground.
Also the AS spectrum includes the Aspers but if you equate an Asper with a non verbal or challenged person, I urge you to consider a new perspective and seek a list of possible Aspers in history.
One more point it seems that for what ever reason the rate of AS generally and the Aspers I have interest in seems to be increasing.
It would be interesting to hear from someone who has the data to state what the proportion in the general public is genius and what proportion of Asper specifically, not AS as a generality, is genius.
 
Ste11aeres said:
Agreeing with what you said, Evolution isn't about "better" or "worse" it's just about "producing more offspring". That's all it is. Aspies probably produce less offspring than NTs, as we tend to be less successful in regards to romantic relationships. (Although some Aspies do end up in happy relationships/marriages. But as a group, we're not that great at it).
To repeat, evolution doesn't mean something is better than what came before. It only means that thing had more offspring, and the offspring likewise had more offspring.
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Ste11aeres your breeding point is probably true but another thing that may be worth a moment of consideration is the emotional/ hysterics are killing each other as fast as they can for the most stupid of reasons, by the thundering herdful.
We, the loners, shunned and independent Aspers are often creative and circumvent the chaos and often rise above the fray, by and large. Some of us succeed in spite of not having the comfort of the wool that surrounds the majority.
 
I think that's a thread that could stand on itself. Pat Kinsella's position is actually defensible, when you look at economic behavior. The emotional brain is a lot older than the cortical shell, where the magic happens :smilingimp:
 
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