• Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Sensitive Topic The Aspie NT conflict? NTs may not be the culprit

Given the prevalence of atrocities committed by 'civilisation' as far back as history can remember, I think people will always find someone to hate. I know there are genuinely brilliant people in the world, but there is plenty of evidence of horrid people too. I would only ever dislike someone who has shown themselves deserving of it, but I will happily admit to not understanding anyone, NT or otherwise.
 
I'm disturbed by the title and tenor of this thread, especially presumption in the OP that there is fault to be assigned, the insistence that personal belief is the same as scientific fact. It's hard to maintain civil discussion with an aggressive initial posture; "I know my topic may be offensive" isn't an apology, it's an excuse for planned bad behavior. I appreciate NTgirl4276 's summary of the problems.

Try to stay within guidelines so you're not locked, if what you really want to do is discuss rather than blame.
 
That which is not understood is often feared or rejected. I think this is true of most NT"s . Myself as an Aspie tries to understand and categorize it.
 
Last edited:
I blame nothing and no one beyond humans in general for any of the terrible things our species is capable of doing to one another.

I don't see a war between ASD and NT, some misunderstanding, lack of awareness and education but, it isn't an us vs. them situation where one side must be the victor. In the end, we are human, they are human and we all have strengths and shortcomings, talents and weaknesses. It might be better to take each individual as a person instead of trying to label and group everyone into this or that clique, niche, whatever. Isn't Human enough of a label?
 
Gee... I thought the discussion is coming to an end... so many diverse views! Ah well... keep them coming

To any VIPs or Mods, Basically i did not start this topic to start a war. I doubt Aspies will start any war of sorts unless they have had a bad bout of PTSD which untreated can lead to self destruction. In my country, we already had a handful cases of Aspies becoming social problems. My volunteers and I managed to defuse a lot of them. Mostly becos of lack of support fueled by lack of awareness and acceptance by the general public and the authorities.

Unfortunately while the USA aspies are putting up a good fight to Autism Speaks to make sure they don't get to "cure" them out of existence.etc, Autism Speaks has reached Asian shores to exploit the fears of a recently developed but ignorant Asian population.

Otherwise I am not here to start any conflicts what so ever. But I hope to see how you guys maybe able to advise with my country's Aspies. I see that blaming NTs and their culture they created isn't the best way forward. However it is not easy since they NTs are usually the ones following orders. It doesn't help that my country of Singapore just had been seen as a human rights abuser of children which trickles down to the culture of NTs in the country. Being narrow-minded pricks who cannot take simple criticism makes socializing with Singaporeans a LOT harder for Aspies and some NTs we know.
 
Tigris I don't think there is any ONE way to coexist with NTs that would work universally for all Aspies. We are each individuals with different goals, different perceptions and different struggles. Yes I do think our ability to learn is the key but, each of us needs to learn different things and, we each have our own learning style.

Some may want a quiet, relatively isolated life so, they need to learn skills that help them achieve that life be that job skills, off grid living, self sufficiency, whatever they need to live as they want to live. They wouldn't need much social learning since they don't want to socialize much.

Some want a family, a nice middle class job, friends, just a normal middle class suburban or city life. That requires different skill and, a bit more social learning.

Then there are some like me who want a career that puts them in the public eye repeatedly, musicians, actors, famous people. Again different skill and, the most social learning required to achieve that life.

I am motivated to learn by my own internal drive for success and, will learn whatever I need to in order to succeed at what I want to do. Other need external motivation, for others it has to involve their interests or passions or they won't learn it.

Some of us cope with pressure, stress and anxiety better than others. Some of us can push ourselves or allow others to push us well beyond what we think our limits are and remain positive in the face of embarrassment, shut downs and, meltdowns. Other would be crushed if anyone pushed them that hard continually.

Yes we can each achieve or goals in life but, the means to the end is the important part of that and, that needs to be tailored to each individual. It's a monumental task, no one group or organization can do it alone, Aspies can't do it alone and, neither can NTs, we all need to work together, help each other where we can and, find what works for every person on the ASD spectrum.

As much as I would like to make the world accommodate all of us entirely, that is not practical. What is practical is better education and awareness of what ASD is and, how it MIGHT affect any given individual. With that comes understanding and the ability of workplaces, schools, and any other public place to make accommodations that benefit us without disrupting the business, school or work place. That has to be a give and take between those in charge and the ASD people that work, dine, learn or shop there on a regular basis, there isn't a single global answer beyond education, awareness and understanding.
 
But a NT culture that is willing to accept and learn helps, wouldn't it? IF you have a conservative culture that even clamps on on alternative voices which Aspies often are... that is a difficult place to live.
 
Yes Tigris it is but, even there people are educated about other medical and biological differences. While it may require proven science and expert writing to make it acceptable in places like that, it can be done.

Now if by alternative voices, you meant inciting illegal or questionable actions to try to force awareness, then I can see that being a problem that needs to stop. Spiteful, anti NT remarks and action benefit no one any more than bullying or hate do. Blaming one or the other groups is no help, all blame does is make the other party get defensive and defensive people are too worried about defending themselves to even see another point of view, much less learn something new that might mean they were wrong.
 
Actually not really illegal or questionable actions, unless that aspie is that screwed up. So far Anti NT remarks and actions are not the reason for why I wish to discuss this. But something else. Like alternative voices like alternative constructive opinions on many things which aspies often do and getting hell becos it is against the norm but not illegal.
 
Actually not really illegal or questionable actions, unless that aspie is that screwed up. So far Anti NT remarks and actions are not the reason for why I wish to discuss this. But something else. Like alternative voices like alternative constructive opinions on many things which aspies often do and getting hell becos it is against the norm but not illegal.


Can I be blunt here? How much in your opinion does racial/ethnic strife in Singapore play a role in this equation for you ?

Given such a small land mass (5 million+ people on a 241 square mile island) that's a whole lot of ethnically diverse people living in relatively close quarters. I'd think that would compound any and all differences between people there. Including neurological differences.

That whatever "air in the room" there is for tolerance and alternative voices may have already been sucked out over issues beyond neurology. Am I any closer to what you're trying to get at?
 
Its not a problem in Singapore actually, racial and ethic strife have been a thing of the past. The issue maybe becos we developed way too quick, the peasants have yet to catch up psychologically.

Btw bluntness is welcome in the topic ^_^. But my countrymen don't like bluntness or opinions different from their own. I have friends formerly from sg who migrated to other countries and find that their social skills problems are not exactly problems in the first place..
 
But my countrymen don't like bluntness or opinions different from their own. I have friends formerly from sg who migrated to other countries and find that their social skills problems are not exactly problems in the first place..


That sounds more indicative of cultural/societal issues which may not be neurologically based at all. If you can leave one border and enter another where neurological differences aren't so pronounced, it says a lot right there. Societal tolerance and conformity from one place to another isn't necessarily tied to neurological distinctions.

Where we come full circle to the second part of your thread's title: That NTs may not be the culprit.
 
Last edited:
If you're talking about the typical struggles fitting in, making friends, figuring out figures of speech, following verbal instruction, social anxiety, etc... The usual Aspie cocktail of challenges, it's no different anywhere in the world.

To reach a group, NTs in this case, you've got to understand them and, present things on their terms, their level and, in a way that appeals to them. You can't go in shouting and pointing out every difference, every problem we have that they don't - you've got to find common ground first, then show them how we can be an asset, not a problem or deficit to our communities and, the world, then you can explain the differences and ask for more accommodation, and it will be accepted.

If I simply said "I'm an Aspie, I want special accommodations and you need to dim those lights over my desk now." What is your reaction? Not a good reaction and, I'm not going to get even one tiny accommodation that way.

Now if I said "Can we talk for a minute? The bright lights right over my desk really bother my eyes and, make me anxious. I have Asperger's and, it isn't a big deal but, if I get too anxious, I shut down. I can't help it. Do you think you could help out by dimming the lights a little?" What's you're reaction? Now your listening to me, thinking and, trying to find a way to help solve my problem, you'll probably offer to dim the lights for me, and be happy that you helped someone feel better.

My point is that you can't come in too forcefully, too demanding and expect anyone to listen or take you seriously. As Aspies we tend to be very direct and, that sounds demanding sometimes. When you demand something, the other person feels forced into doing something and that's not a good feeling. When you explain then request, you give them the power of choice, you give them freedom in a small way and, that is a good feeling. People are much more likely to listen, learn and accommodate us if it feels good for them to do it than if we try to force them to do it.
 
That sounds more indicative of cultural/societal issues which may not be neurologically based at all. If you can leave one border and enter another where neurological differences aren't so pronounced, it says a lot right there. Societal tolerance and conformity from one place to another isn't necessarily tied to neurological distinctions.

Where we come full circle to the second part of your thread's title: That NTs may not be the culprit.
Finally someone see the point. However i rather not encourage the aspies in my country to migrate nor hold aspirations to do so. But i understand those who do have indeed issues with the culture of a country in general. So far the countries most have emigrated to are more westernized countries with freedom of speech and open minded mindsets? Not sure and i dont wish to overgeneralize.

However in the end, Singaporeans have to change their mindsets. It is now also apparent that even some NTs also cant stand their own culture too.
 
[QUOTE="Beverly, post: 239637, member: 13595"

My point is that you can't come in too forcefully, too demanding and expect anyone to listen or take you seriously. As Aspies we tend to be very direct and, that sounds demanding sometimes. When you demand something, the other person feels forced into doing something and that's not a good feeling. When you explain then request, you give them the power of choice, you give them freedom in a small way and, that is a good feeling. People are much more likely to listen, learn and accommodate us if it feels good for them to do it than if we try to force them to do it.[/QUOTE]

The issue is aspies here are in no position to demand anything so you can be sure they have accomadated and tolerated NTs for a long time. If things are forceful, maybe its because sgporeans have yet to accept that such people exist in their island world which upsets the social order not of their creation sometimes. They have even yet to accept deviants much less aspies and freedom of speech. But that is another topic.
 
So far the countries most have emigrated to are more westernized countries with freedom of speech and open minded mindsets? Not sure and i dont wish to overgeneralize.


Reminds me of Geordie. Wondering what happened to him. He hasn't posted in a very long time. He was from Singapore and didn't seem very happy there. Not sure though if that was more about family pressures than anything else.

More open mindsets? Yes, you have to be careful not to generalize. Especially if your primary concern is neurodiversity. For instance where I live (Nevada) most people don't seem to even be aware of differing neurologies. You have to be careful in understanding that contacting autistic Americans online is a different issue than seeking them out in person.

Outside of neurological concerns though, it depends on where you go. As for our laws, particularly civil law varies from state to state. One thing for sure. You won't find our head of state suing anyone for defamation. It's virtually impossible given our legal precedents. Which often seem absurd to the outside world for a number of reasons.
 
As a general rule, I think that Aspers like crisp, concise and simply elegant chiaroscuro answers.
The NT tend to equivocate and obfuscate, to give deep thought into framing gilded answers around an old, cracked painting in drab shades of grey.

The day that that a simple question has to be weaseled to the point of all encompassing nuance, is the day that yes or no actually means maybe, and time and circumstance are used expeditiously to manipulate others.
To consider this the healthy norm rather than sociopathic, self serving behavior is making my head spin.
I am an old, but honest fool, but I am not so devoid of reason or apparently was not taught well enough as to what to think, to call prevarication, subjective truth.

Hit me with your best shot and explain to me how half deceit and half truth actually means undeniable veracity?
This is my truth.
I have about as much use for the average NT as an average NT has for an imbecile.
I'm looking for communication and friendships at my level.
NT look for those at their level, and I assume if the profoundly low in bandwidth find comfort and perhaps understanding in their shared mutuality also.

Oh by the way I can love, comfort, play and care for my pet dog, but I really don't think we understand each other. What do you think?
 
I don't call social rules illogical, necessarily. They work to create bonds and connections- a greater good can be achieved with these because in theory [and over long term], happy=productive, unhappy=nonproductive. If a species is miserable and unproductive in general, it dies out.
Those on the spectrum may not inherently need to have these bonds developed, but because of various reasons- including probably oxytocin amounts- are able to be productive in ways that benefit them and their experience and perspective. Perhaps this is possible without being in reciprocal relationships to the degree that those who are not on the spectrum are involved.

No one "makes" the rules- and that's one of the things that makes it hard. There is no actual book. If we don't seek to increase bonds, we don't strive to follow rules and our brain is not necessarily made to easily develop them. Social rules are for connection to a wide variety of individuals in a species.

If we as individuals are more picky about connections, we don't adapt to those rules.
Brains brains brains.

To make a generalized statement such as suggesting all those not on the spectrum want to wipe out those who are by general goal is to really misinterpret most people on the spectrum.

Autism Speaks has a loud voice, and its pretty obvious that it doesn't speak for autistics, but it doesn't even speak for the majority of neurotypicals.

SignOfLazarus, no "one"makes the rules is a fact. The majority plays the rules of their own indoctrination even to the point of cultural memes.
 
Not all social rules are illogical but certainly if it is majority versus minority it becomes a problem isn it?

Also many people not on the spectrum are hoping to wipe out the spectrum people or even mildly disabled people in one way or another.

Also it appears most NTs seem to follow rules and fail to even question why. Maybe it is a cultural thing?

Tigris, I really doubt that our focused genius will ever be "wiped out". We are simply the next evolutionary H.Sapiens. Perhaps the NTs are upset because of their role as the Neanderthals.
 
Even the aspect of a cure is very similar to what they do to down syndrome people or what the nazis would do too.

Moreover, most NTs get blamed wrongly by aspies for creating the social order. My question is who created this order that is ableist,racist.etc whatever."ist"?
Tigris, people as a general rule fear what they do or can not understand. It is a case of accepted mass insecurity with an emotional flight or fight response.
Do not fear, the future is here, now!
 
Last edited:

New Threads

Top Bottom