Question from someone not on the spectrum!

[starlitink]

Hello everyone- I'm Star and I'm not on the spectrum of autism at all; I'm doing my best to learn about it because I'd like to be as respectful and understanding of people who are diagnosed.

I have a question that I'll try to make as short as possible, so please forgive me if this does end up as a small novel.

I currently know two people in a chat group that I run that have autism; I'll call them Mike and Lisa.

Mike has autism and I've tended to have issues with him in the past. In some instances when I've attempted to explain the rules of my group to him that he often breaks, he responds with questions and almost seems to argue with me and not accept that the rules are rules. I've also had instances where he hasn't responded to messages with me and I repeatedly messaged him until he responded saying that I was harassing him and making him uncomfortable. Him saying that honestly offended me, but I'm also attempting to take into account that he communicates and receives information differently than I do and I just want to figure out if I'm crossing any lines with him or not.

Then there's the second member, Lisa. She's a very nice girl and is an adult in college. She has autism as well, and while I'm always polite and friendly to her, privately I'm struggling to figure out how to separate her autism from her personality if that makes any sense. In the past I've gotten frustrated with Lisa because she's very focused on setting herself apart from other girls (I'm a nerd, I don't like celebrities, I think pop music sucks and I only like classic rock, etc etc). She tends to bring conversations back to herself and if you bring up anything that would be mainstream she talks about how she's not like that. To be honest that part of her bugs the hell out of me, and when I spoke to a friend about it they said it was just part of her autism.

To be honest I don't buy that- maybe I'm wrong here but I think what you believe in vs how you communicate are two different things. I don't want to discriminate against Lisa due to her autism, but I feel as though I should also have a right to find her beliefs and personality to be annoying. I suppose I brought her up because I'm curious what you all think that Lisa being a "not your typical girl" trope ties in with her autism.

If anything I said in this post at all is offensive to people on the spectrum in anyway I genuinely apologize, and if you're comfortable with it please tell me what I said wrong. I appreciate any and all responses in advance!

 

[Dorkasour]

Unfortunately, I think Aspie or not your in no position change them or their opinions on things.

With Mike I'd be honest and literal. If you have rules for the chat room you just tell him to follow them regardless on if he follows it or not. With you e-mailing him and him not replying: maybe ask why he hasn't replied to the first instead of repeatedly e-mailing him? You have every right to be offended by him saying your harassing him but I assume with my best judgment he didn't mean it personally. He was just telling you how he felt. Possibly tell him it hurt your feelings so he knows?

If Lisa doesn't like something she has every right to say she doesn't like it. You can't make her be apart of the girls in the chatroom. By constantly bringing up that she is autistic it does communicate to a extent that your discriminating against her, no offense. Like anyone else try to communicate with her in a clear almost literal way but maybe don't alienate her for not being like the other girls. Who knows, she might already be self conscious about it?

 

[Rayner]

With, Mike what rules does he break? If you could explain a little more about that I would help me out to figure out what is going on and how you can deal with it.

With Lisa, Yes and No. Lisa probably has a very hard time connecting with people, because of that she probably doesn't try to be like fit in. Does that make sense?

 

[starlitink]

Unfortunately, I think Aspie or not your in no position change them or their opinions on things.

With Mike I'd be honest and literal. If you have rules for the chat room you just tell him to follow them regardless on if he follows it or not. With you e-mailing him and him not replying: maybe ask why he hasn't replied to the first instead of repeatedly e-mailing him? You have every right to be offended by him saying your harassing him but I assume with my best judgment he didn't mean it personally. He was just telling you how he felt. Possibly tell him it hurt your feelings so he knows?

If Lisa doesn't like something she has every right to say she doesn't like it. You can't make her be apart of the girls in the chatroom. By constantly bringing up that she is autistic it does communicate to a extent that your discriminating against her, no offense. Like anyone else try to communicate with her in a clear almost literal way but maybe don't alienate her for not being like the other girls. Who knows, she might already be self conscious about it?

I think I misspoke a bit and I apologize- I have no intention of changing either of them, I don't believe in that! It's very possible that everything she said- "I'm a nerdy girl etc etc" is true, but I often see girls saying that while bashing "typical girls" because they try to separate themselves from others.

Regardless, I really appreciate your input and I'll think about it. Thank you!

 

[starlitink]

With, Mike what rules does he break? If you could explain a little more about that I would help me out to figure out what is going on and how you can deal with it.

With Lisa, Yes and No. Lisa probably has a very hard time connecting with people, because of that she probably doesn't try to be like fit in. Does that make sense?

With Mike- we have specific, themed channels to keep the chat room organized and he often posts in the wrong channels. This isn't an issue when done every so often or accidentally, but he's done it on purpose and said "I know this doesn't go here but it's relevant to the conversation" or something along those lines. We also have rules about certain inappropriate/offensive words that aren't allowed. Every so often he slips up and says things that upsets others. A few members have blocked him due to this, and the ones that respond to him publicly often cause the chat to blow up in argument. That part isn't entirely Mikes fault; the other member is participating in the arguing as well.

I suppose more than all that, truthfully the thing I struggle the most with him is feeling as though he doesn't respect me as the person in charge of the server. Either by arguing with rules, attempting to argue politics (I tell him he's entitled to his opinions but to keep it out of chat), or seeming to not respond/ignore my messages when I ask him direct questions.

That's mostly what sparked me to bring him up specifically. The most recent issue is where I asked him a question and got no response, gave him a day or two, and then messaged him again addressing that he hadn't responded. This happened multiple times before he said I was harassing him and making him uncomfortable, and my hurt feelings on that aside, I worry that I was in some form overwhelming him or attacking him.

With Lisa- Yes, that makes perfect sense. I do understand why she does it; and I try to be as kind to her as possible because of this. I swear up and down I've never once been rude to her or dismissive. Personally, it just bugs me because that sort of behavior is more common in kids, but she's in her 20's. Is that statement wrong? I'm asking genuinely btw; I don't know if being on the autism spectrum can affect rates of maturity at all.

Thank you for your response btw- I appreciate it!

 

[Rayner]

With Mike as far as posting in the wrong channels, in my mind I tend to think that he is posting in the channel that is the closest to what he thinks it should fit and By telling you that it is relevant to a conversation he is trying to express why he put it there. I don't know if he respects you or not as the person in charge of the server or not. As far you messaging him and him not responding, to me if it got to the point that he thought that you were harassing him then you did unintentionally overwhelm him or make him uncomfortable.

Yes and No I would say that behavior is more childlike, but that isn't necessarily a lack of maturity on Lisa's part on rather her expressing herself through the ways that she knows how to. Let me ask you this does she bash typical girls?

 

[Fitzo]

Yes being on the spectrum CAN affect rates of maturity.
That said, while it is pretty common for autistic females to have difficulty relating to the things that interest other young women, it seems deliberately belligerent to be in a chatroom with them if that is clearly the case. It seems very counterproductive for somene who has difficulty socialising in the first place.

 

[Streetwise]

he is a famous quote if you've met one Aspie you've met one Aspie, what Mike has experienced and believes is what Mike has experienced and believes and what Lisa has experienced and believes is what Lisa has experienced and believes , it is very common for autistic people to suffer bullying ,The truth we are different neurologically so the way we communicate is different but to us the way you communicate is different .

 

[Bolletje]

You’re still allowed to find someone’s personality annoying when they’re on the spectrum

That being said, I’m a 32-year old female nerd who isn’t into typical “girl stuff” and isn’t really up to speed with mainstream pop culture. I don’t go around proclaiming this like some sort of hipster badge of honor, but I regularly have to explain myself when coworkers are trying to engage me in conversations about x television show or x pop artist. It’s not that I’m actively trying to be as different from everyone else as possible, it’s just that I have other interests.

Still, there’s a difference between doing your own thing and shouting it from the rooftops. Keep in mind that some people on the spectrum are relatively “young” for their age. While most people leave the obsessive need to be different behind somewhere in their adolescence, it could be that Lisa is still workin out her last bits of puberty.

 

[kay]

I am guessing you might find me to be a bit like Lisa. And it is difficult to be that girl who isn't "typical". If she brings it up on purpose it could be a number of reasons and one can only guess as to why. She may not even know why. I have done that sometimes myself and it's sorta a defense thing.

Most of the time I bring up not being "typical" it's not on purpose it's just there is not much way around it. Even when I am doing something "typical" I am not typical. Been dress shopping for the last week and a half and the differences between me and most women are turning what should be a fun experience into a depressing one.

Aspie women are quite often not going to be conforming to anything "typical" because, well, we just don't. Perhaps we are free to some degree from societal pressure, don't know. And if you think she's "bashing" "typical" gals by mentioning how different she is, imagine how often she gets bashed for being the way she is. I used to have girls try to corner me with a curling iron when I was in high-school, try to get make-up on me; I had girls always trying to force me into being them. And I actually have always had a few skirts or dresses and a least longish hair(except one bad haircut) but still I apparently don't quite get the idea of being a proper girl. Really, it's not easy.

So if Lisa is like me, there, that's what I can tell you. And of course Lisa could just be mean, it's possible, but she may just be honest and nothing more.

As for Mike, who knows. I certainly have no insight into that issue. I do my best to stick to rules unless they are somehow unjust.

 

[Progster]

In the past I've gotten frustrated with Lisa because she's very focused on setting herself apart from other girls (I'm a nerd, I don't like celebrities, I think pop music sucks and I only like classic rock, etc etc). She tends to bring conversations back to herself and if you bring up anything that would be mainstream she talks about how she's not like that. To be honest that part of her bugs the hell out of me, and when I spoke to a friend about it they said it was just part of her autism

That sounds a lot like me - I don't necessarily deliberately go out to make a point about not liking pop culture, but if the subject comes up, I will give my opinion and tell people that I'm not into it or don't know anything about it - I'm not going to fake opinions about things I don't know about or pretend to be into something just to please other people. I agree that it can be annoying if the person is making a point of giving an opinion at every opportunity where an opinion isn't called for, but we don't all have to like celebrities or pop music (I don't either) and different opinions to your own need to be tolerated and respected, just as I have to tolerate and respect people liking things that I'm not into. If she is actually insulting people, then that's a different matter, obviously that is wrong.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

She tends to bring conversations back to herself and if you bring up anything that would be mainstream she talks about how she's not like that. To be honest that part of her bugs the hell out of me, and when I spoke to a friend about it they said it was just part of her autism

Your friend is likely right. But this sounds like a personal growth challenge for you in understanding why it bugs you so much.

To be honest I don't buy that- maybe I'm wrong here but I think what you believe in vs how you communicate are two different things

Maybe you are wrong. People who are autistic can see the world in what could be considered a self-centric way.
We dont necessarily speak with consideration of social mores
Which may be the invisible thread that annoys you.
You could likely be communicating with an unconscious and/or subconscious version of social mores running through everything.
For the NT coomunication has a social bias.
Lisa , perhaps not. So if she says i dont believe that.. theres no undercurrent.
That's her position with no consideration or thought of the consequences socially to her or anyone else.
Ie no 'tact'

 

[Mr Allen]

Unfortunately, I think Aspie or not your in no position change them or their opinions on things.

With Mike I'd be honest and literal. If you have rules for the chat room you just tell him to follow them regardless on if he follows it or not. With you e-mailing him and him not replying: maybe ask why he hasn't replied to the first instead of repeatedly e-mailing him? You have every right to be offended by him saying your harassing him but I assume with my best judgment he didn't mean it personally. He was just telling you how he felt. Possibly tell him it hurt your feelings so he knows?

If Lisa doesn't like something she has every right to say she doesn't like it. You can't make her be apart of the girls in the chatroom. By constantly bringing up that she is autistic it does communicate to a extent that your discriminating against her, no offense. Like anyone else try to communicate with her in a clear almost literal way but maybe don't alienate her for not being like the other girls. Who knows, she might already be self conscious about it?

Your equals you're

 

[Suzanne]

Some observations.

One is that there is no so called seperation with aspie to human, as it were: we are one and the same thing; just as you being a neurotypical is you being you and not you being separate from you.

Two: just because we are aspie, does not automatically mean one should be exempt from rules of right and wrong.

Third: what could be perceived as weird to state that one is different; in fact it is often used as an introduction ie just to say that I am not your regular kind of female, so please bare with me, when you have your typical girly conversations.

Although I am a very femmine female; I am not very much like your average female in what I like to talk about. I rarely wear make up and if I do, it is just a bit of mascara and have never worn lipstick.

I have always found it very unnatural to sit on a girl's bed and giggle with her. I rather sit on a chair and have a smashing conversation about current affairs with a guy or an aspie female lol

As for Mike: is it at all possible, the fact that he keeps posting in the wrong catagory means that he gets a bit confused to which one he should post in; rather than because he is flouting rules? This would tally with his response; because when we get confused and then, in effect: disciplined for that, we react.

 

[starlitink]

With Mike as far as posting in the wrong channels, in my mind I tend to think that he is posting in the channel that is the closest to what he thinks it should fit and By telling you that it is relevant to a conversation he is trying to express why he put it there. I don't know if he respects you or not as the person in charge of the server or not. As far you messaging him and him not responding, to me if it got to the point that he thought that you were harassing him then you did unintentionally overwhelm him or make him uncomfortable.

Yes and No I would say that behavior is more childlike, but that isn't necessarily a lack of maturity on Lisa's part on rather her expressing herself through the ways that she knows how to. Let me ask you this does she bash typical girls?

Okay! On Mike I'm gonna be more careful in the future- do you think it would be appropriate for me to ask him to speak with me about his autism so I can understand his limits and such? I know each person is different but I wanna get your input on it regardless.

With Lisa- yes, I would say it's unintentional though. Most recently she expressed that she feels as though "typical" girls steal all the nerdy guys, and it's not fair because they don't have anything in common with the dudes. In my mind that's an unfair assumption to make; just because a girl wears makeup and seems to be one way doesn't mean they're not also nerdy.

I don't wanna get into any debates about beliefs or ethics. I mostly wanted to make sure I understand how autism works more so I can treat Lisa and Mike fairly and with understanding, while at the same time not making excuses for things they do under the guise of it being autism. I feel doing so would be insulting the autism community as a whole and I don't want to do that!

Hopefully everything I'm saying makes sense! I really appreciate all your feedback and thoughts!

 

[starlitink]

Yes being on the spectrum CAN affect rates of maturity.
That said, while it is pretty common for autistic females to have difficulty relating to the things that interest other young women, it seems deliberately belligerent to be in a chatroom with them if that is clearly the case. It seems very counterproductive for somene who has difficulty socialising in the first place.

Okay, it'll be good for me to keep in mind the information about maturity, thank you!

As for Lisa being in the chatroom, I think it makes perfect sense for her to have joined my chatroom considering it's advertised as being a place for people who enjoy video games! I think she has found a community of people she can relate to in terms of hobbies, but she also seems to struggle with realizing that we have a very unique and awesome mixture of different folks! We have people who are hardcore nerds, but they also wear makeup, jewelry, and traditional feminine clothing.

Thanks for your response, it was super helpful!

 

[starlitink]

he is a famous quote if you've met one Aspie you've met one Aspie, what Mike has experienced and believes is what Mike has experienced and believes and what Lisa has experienced and believes is what Lisa has experienced and believes , it is very common for autistic people to suffer bullying ,The truth we are different neurologically so the way we communicate is different but to us the way you communicate is different .

I definitely have to keep that in mind, because I want my chatroom to be a comfortable place for all members who are on the spectrum! I think I still have a lot to learn so I can take into account how I communicate differently, so I can make them as comfortable as I can. Thank you so much for your response!

 

[starlitink]

You’re still allowed to find someone’s personality annoying when they’re on the spectrum

That being said, I’m a 32-year old female nerd who isn’t into typical “girl stuff” and isn’t really up to speed with mainstream pop culture. I don’t go around proclaiming this like some sort of hipster badge of honor, but I regularly have to explain myself when coworkers are trying to engage me in conversations about x television show or x pop artist. It’s not that I’m actively trying to be as different from everyone else as possible, it’s just that I have other interests.

Still, there’s a difference between doing your own thing and shouting it from the rooftops. Keep in mind that some people on the spectrum are relatively “young” for their age. While most people leave the obsessive need to be different behind somewhere in their adolescence, it could be that Lisa is still workin out her last bits of puberty.

Haha, yes that's true! I always feel bad for finding people annoying though. I WANT to like her.

And yes! I agree with all of this. Hopefully I'm not coming off as bashing nerd/"not typical" girls or anything. I'm a nerdly or sort myself but I also enjoy wearing femme clothing and makeup, so when Lisa says the things she does it makes me feel as though my identity is being invalidated a little. I think humans are extremely versatile creatures so we shouldn't really try to box in our interests and hobbies.

Thank you so much for your response! <3 I'm gonna continue working on being patient and understanding with Lisa.

 

[starlitink]

I am guessing you might find me to be a bit like Lisa. And it is difficult to be that girl who isn't "typical". If she brings it up on purpose it could be a number of reasons and one can only guess as to why. She may not even know why. I have done that sometimes myself and it's sorta a defense thing.

Most of the time I bring up not being "typical" it's not on purpose it's just there is not much way around it. Even when I am doing something "typical" I am not typical. Been dress shopping for the last week and a half and the differences between me and most women are turning what should be a fun experience into a depressing one.

Aspie women are quite often not going to be conforming to anything "typical" because, well, we just don't. Perhaps we are free to some degree from societal pressure, don't know. And if you think she's "bashing" "typical" gals by mentioning how different she is, imagine how often she gets bashed for being the way she is. I used to have girls try to corner me with a curling iron when I was in high-school, try to get make-up on me; I had girls always trying to force me into being them. And I actually have always had a few skirts or dresses and a least longish hair(except one bad haircut) but still I apparently don't quite get the idea of being a proper girl. Really, it's not easy.

So if Lisa is like me, there, that's what I can tell you. And of course Lisa could just be mean, it's possible, but she may just be honest and nothing more.

As for Mike, who knows. I certainly have no insight into that issue. I do my best to stick to rules unless they are somehow unjust.

Thank you first of all, this is all super helpful to hear from someone who can relate to Lisa. I'm really sorry about your past experiences; I know that doesn't change anything but it still stinks you had to experience what you did.

I don't think Lisa is mean actually; she's often very polite and likes to compliment others. My annoyance just stems from her constantly, often unintentionally, placing herself above other girls who are considered to be typical. To be honest it's almost a petty annoyance, but one I definitely can't help.

I've mostly just posted this topic to get the thoughts of the people from the community, and everything has definitely come through and been very nice and helpful!

I appreciate your insight and I'll definitely be thinking about it! Thank you!

 

[starlitink]

That sounds a lot like me - I don't necessarily deliberately go out to make a point about not liking pop culture, but if the subject comes up, I will give my opinion and tell people that I'm not into it or don't know anything about it - I'm not going to fake opinions about things I don't know about or pretend to be into something just to please other people. I agree that it can be annoying if the person is making a point of giving an opinion at every opportunity where an opinion isn't called for, but we don't all have to like celebrities or pop music (I don't either) and different opinions to your own need to be tolerated and respected, just as I have to tolerate and respect people liking things that I'm not into. If she is actually insulting people, then that's a different matter, obviously that is wrong.

Yes- I agree with this. Apologies if I came off as shaming her for her interests, because that's not my intention.

I actually have a lot in common with Lisa, mostly in terms of video games, movies, and favorite youtubers. But I ALSO am a feminine girl who likes traditional things. I've said this in another response but humans are versatile creatures and we shouldn't limit ourselves to what we can enjoy; it's entirely possible to have conflicting interests. So I just feel frustrated that she seems to be under the impression that all girls who wear makeup are jerks, and all girls who find interest in celebrities aren't nerds. It's just a annoyance at the end of the day; I can't change who she is nor would I want to.

Thank you so much for your response! I agree with it all and I appreciate your honesty!