NT’s and false promises?

[Frostee]

Does anyone notice that regular people will make a “promise” or say they are going to do something and then not fulfill it.. and act like it’s alright to make false promises to people?

So, for example, say a friend says “hey, will see you next week, how about we go out to Italios for lunch bat 2:30”... then you agree on it. The day comes around and it’s radio silence.. no message to say “sorry I couldn’t go” nothing. (I have an acquaintance that sometimes does this)

Another example is... I have been put on an Internship - I was told that they would be flexible. I have to book accomodation. The leader agreed to contact me on the 24th for dates that I would need to book.. the 24th comes round and what happens? I receive an email discussing about my interview with no mention of dates.He then states that he will tell me at the group meeting.

And i’m thinking “you just said that you were going to tell me dates on the 24th, but you haven’t and you are denying that you said you would? Why?”

If I personally commit to something you can bet your bottom dollar that I am going to do it. And if I don’t i’ll be contacting you to apologise.

I will not commit to something and go radio silent on you.

Yet according to several people i’ve talked to, it’s normal for NT’s to say they’re going to do something, fully knowing that they’re not going to do it at the time? So why commit to something if you know your not going to fulfill the promise? Nobody has asked you to make that promise so why lie?

Infuriates me so much! Makes me feel so gullible and naive for taking them at their word. Why can people not just say “sorry.. won’t be going to.. today” it just beyond disrespectful to do this.

 

[Progster]

This annoys me too. It happens a lot - it's a feelgood ememe thing. When people say that they are going to meet up, they are wanting to be friendly (or be seen to be friendly) and send a positive emotion to you, but they often don't expect you to hold them to it, not unless they give a specific time and date. Even then, it's not certain. At the time they may genuinely want to do the thing they say, but then when it comes around they have other pressing issues, or something better comes along or they forget. It's rude not to let you know they can't make it. Other times, it's more of a formality, an ememe and not to be taken literally - when you bump into someone at the supermarket and they say, 'hey, let's meet up sometime', you can just about 100% guarantee that they won't. I agree that it's annoying and rude and not what I would do either - I'm not really that sociable, but if I do say, let's meet up, I will arrange a time and place, and make sure that the other person knows in good time if I can't make it on principle, because for me it's not just an ememe, it's genuine and I wouldn't say it unless I really meant it and planned to follow through with it. I've learned not to expect anything from people unless they give a specific time and place for the meetup.

 

[shysnail]

I agree with you. These people are just being rude and unfair. I think it's one thing to say "We should catch up sometime" and nothing comes of it. That's so vague as to be meaningless, but to actually pick a place, date and time and say they'll meet you then, and then don't, that's really wrong.

In terms of the second person, that's more a situation I encounter a lot where people say something will happen on this day and then it doesn't, and it's like it's only me that's being pedantic enough to be expecting it, and everyone else has forgotten.

Commiserations for having to deal with flaky people. It really is infuriating.

 

[Frostee]

NB: I am referring to concrete plans.

 

[Pats]

I think, maybe, another reason is they forget. I can probably speak for the majority here when I say that things we say and things we hear tends to have more of an impact with us. We take everything seriously and we say what we mean and think others are going to, too. More than likely, from the moment the date is set we start agonizing over it and trying to get our mindset prepared to go through with it. Meanwhile, the other person has not given it another thought - literally. And the time comes and we're prepared and they've forgotten and we hear nothing from them.
It's rude and inconsiderate and it makes life difficult for us.

 

[DuckRabbit]

For more evidence and discussion of exactly this sort of social fickleness, see 'An Unspoken Social Rule':
An Unspoken Social Rule

 

[Pats]

My sister - the one I avoid now - is the worst for, well, anything really. But when I was trying to start over - going to school to become a nurse and was now a single mom with no help from my ex whatsoever my sister (married to a doctor) told me that they were talking and since they had bought a new car had decided to give me their old car. I was so excited that I would have a dependable car. But it never happened - they gave it to someone else and never mentioned it again. She did this stuff all the time. But a story that she told me concerning Christmas with her in laws says it all.
She had accidently given her mother in law a present intended for someone else. The mother in law was thrilled with the gift so my sister didn't have the heart to ask for it back. Instead she snuck into the room they were staying in and swiped it back so her mother in law would just think they misplaced it or something.
Yes, she is not autistic - but I wouldn't call her neurotypical - I just have not yet figured out what she is. In our 50's I wanted to buy a little plate where we were visiting and she tried her best to get me to just steal it. Nooo.

 

[Judge]

Some people regardless of neurological considerations are simply what I call "flakes". Unreliable people who either have no understanding or interest in the importance of a notion that their word is their bond.

Similar to what the insurance industry defines as "morale hazards". Those who are considered undesirable to insure because they lack being conscientious about their personal responsibility in terms of their own property and liability.

That for some, such virtues are simply meaningless to them and probably always will be.

 

[tlc]

Agree with it all. And one of the reasons I totally dread selling things and avoid it like the plague. Because so many people make a time and date for the deal, then don't show or message or anything. It's often more of a waste of my time than the item is worth. Geez, when I look at something to buy, it's because I want it, I won't dump out for anything. I WILL show up almost exactly when I said. And if something happens where I can't (car problems or whatever), I'll make sure they know right away.

 

[aspieoutlaw89]

This annoys me too. It happens a lot - it's a feelgood ememe thing. When people say that they are going to meet up, they are wanting to be friendly (or be seen to be friendly) and send a positive emotion to you, but they often don't expect you to hold them to it, not unless they give a specific time and date. Even then, it's not certain. At the time they may genuinely want to do the thing they say, but then when it comes around they have other pressing issues, or something better comes along or they forget. It's rude not to let you know they can't make it. Other times, it's more of a formality, an ememe and not to be taken literally - when you bump into someone at the supermarket and they say, 'hey, let's meet up sometime', you can just about 100% guarantee that they won't. I agree that it's annoying and rude and not what I would do either - I'm not really that sociable, but if I do say, let's meet up, I will arrange a time and place, and make sure that the other person knows in good time if I can't make it on principle, because for me it's not just an ememe, it's genuine and I wouldn't say it unless I really meant it and planned to follow through with it. I've learned not to expect anything from people unless they give a specific time and place for the meetup.

these promises are made so many times that the people making these kinds of promises cannot be trusted !

 

[Monachopia]

I have to admit, this notion of empty NT promises took me quite some time to figure out. I was confused for a long time why someone would say something, to go as far as making somewhat concrete plans and then completely forget as if not intending to go through with it at all in the first place. Like @Progster I'd never say "let's meet up!" unless I honestly mean it.

I guess it's maybe because they have quite a few more social connections than we do. We focus on one or two people at a time. They focus on more than that and words mean less. They may say something in the spur of the moment, but forget them very soon after. I don't think there's ever malice behind forgetting, they don't mean to hurt someone's feelings - because typically people do make vague plans and the only way they get carried out is by contact and actual reminders. This is between NTs mostly. I see my partner do this all the time with people, start arranging meetup with a friend for the week after and by the time that comes around if neither made efforts to remind the other, it fizzles out.

Try not to take it so personally if you can... It really isn't intentionally hurtful. People are just people - forgetful for the most part.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

Well my Bible study group canceled there meeting this week so I agree. It is a group of about 10 people and 9 said they could not make it. Yea Right all 9 were busy so the 10tg member said well I don't think I can make it either so Yes it is annoying but I accept it. I try not to let it bother me so I take walks instead to releaved the disappointment.

 

[Katleya]

I found it incredibly frustrating for years, and probably still harbor a small amount of resentment toward people who have let me down on something that was said.

I think a lot of the people who do this do not necessarily remember they said it in the first place, and I can be okay with it in certain contexts; but there are also those who, as someone else mentioned, say they will do things just to appear pleasant or because they think it's the socially proper thing to say. How not following up on what you announced is conceived as more socially acceptable and desirable as not saying anything, I can't fathom, but it is what it is, whether I like it or not.
So while in my own personal set of values, and how I go about the world, "word is bond", I've come to understand that the same may not apply to the person I'm talking to, and maybe for them words are nothing more than wind being pushed out of their mouths. I am a lot less frustrated with this behavior now because I'm let people know that I will take them at their word, and it seems that introducing a sense of accountability makes people a little less flaky, all while relieving me from the stress caused by expectations rising and then crashing into a sea of disappointment. It's not foolproof, but it gives me permission to let them know I'm not happy if fickleness appears, because they have been warned, and it's unusual enough that they remember it.
I had several friend over the years, none of whom have ever seen me get even the slightest bit angry, tell me that I was the one person they least wanted to cancel or run late on, because they knew they would have a good time, but also knew that improper behavior would not fly. And you know what? I'm kind of happy that I've set that kind of boundaries

That being said, a former boss once showed me keychains he had been given at a trade event. There were 4 of them. He told me I could have one, but first he wanted to let our general manager pick one (fair enough, hierarchically-speaking), and he would also give one to his brother, who works overseas. The GM wasn't in for a few day, and after he came back, I asked my boss if he'd given him the keychain. His reply was "Yes, why?", and of course he had forgotten he'd pretty much promised me one, even though the detailed rationale behind the delayed keychain-giving should have helped him memorize it. I'm willing to bet he didn't really have intentions of actually giving me a keychain, and probably said so before he even realize what he was saying, so he had to make up a fib about the GM rather than own up to the blunder or engage in a perceived situation of losing face. It's unlikely he had actually forgotten, because he still had the other 3 keychains, and later on I saw a secretary who he knew was bullying me rocking one of the keychains.
My point is, some people you can't really hold accountable for their promises, especially not on the little things, but it doesn't make it sting any less.

 

[Pats]

Well my Bible study group canceled there meeting this week so I agree. It is a group of about 10 people and 9 said they could not make it. Yea Right all 9 were busy so the 10tg member said well I don't think I can make it either so Yes it is annoying but I accept it. I try not to let it bother me so I take walks instead to releaved the disappointment.

all 9 couldn't make it? well, I guess, at least they let you know.

 

[Fino]

They set an exact time and place and then were just silent?? That's super weird to me, I don't think I've experienced that.

I wouldn't call them "promises" though, unless they said they promise.

Weird coincidence, someone just now messaged me an example of what might be a good idea for you. A while ago, three of us planned to go to a concert and about a week ago one of them messaged us to make sure we got tickets and just now he messaged us, "You guys ready for tomorrow!"

Or maybe you can think of a question to ask, so instead of directly reminding them, reminding them with the question. For example, if it were a restaurant with multiple locations, you can text the day of, "Hey, we're going to the one on XXXX street, right?"

 

[BlueSky Aozora]

So, for example, say a friend says “hey, will see you next week, how about we go out to Italios for lunch bat 2:30”... then you agree on it. The day comes around and it’s radio silence.. no message to say “sorry I couldn’t go” nothing. (I have an acquaintance that sometimes does this)

He/she forgets. It's like we need to remind him/her the day before, to confirm the plan (by asking, like what Fino suggested above). But if he/she is always like that, it'll be irritating. Better to have japanese friends or be in japanese culture. They'll always keep their time-related promises (except a minority).

Another example is... I have been put on an Internship - I was told that they would be flexible. I have to book accomodation. The leader agreed to contact me on the 24th for dates that I would need to book.. the 24th comes round and what happens? I receive an email discussing about my interview with no mention of dates.He then states that he will tell me at the group meeting.

And i’m thinking “you just said that you were going to tell me dates on the 24th, but you haven’t and you are denying that you said you would? Why?”

So, he's one of the bosses, is it? Bosses are busy people, they tend to forget if it's not in writing or not gone through the secretary. No time to deal with some people's requests.

I think i understand the frustration, but i suggest you, next time, to email him/her and the secretary, after the promise has been made, and the day(s) before. Better even, if you can ask the secretary to schedule/invite you & the boss via a Google calendar. If no secretary, then i think you can invite him/her by yourself.

Even better, email to him/her and cc to his/her upper boss (& also your immediate boss' secretary). People will usually take actions when we cc their bosses together in the email. They dont want to be seen as "not doing the job" or "unproductive" in their bosses eyes.

Dealing with management is sometimes annoying. We need to follow-up since they keep forgetting our case, since they need to deal with lots of people & stuffs. Sometimes our case need to be discussed in meetings, but sometimes they dont tell us if we dont ask. Some people even call the management every day, to make sure they process the request.

Infuriates me so much! Makes me feel so gullible and naive for taking them at their word. Why can people not just say “sorry.. won’t be going to.. today” it just beyond disrespectful to do this.

Yeah, it should be like that. Frustrating!

I admire how Japanese people in Japan as the whole, are not only have strong sense of responsibility to contribute in society & not making other people suffer from their actions/inactions, but also how they are on time - usually they tell you if they're going to be late, even 5 minutes.

 

[BlueSky Aozora]

So while in my own personal set of values, and how I go about the world, "word is bond", I've come to understand that the same may not apply to the person I'm talking to, and maybe for them words are nothing more than wind being pushed out of their mouths. I am a lot less frustrated with this behavior now because I'm let people know that I will take them at their word, and it seems that introducing a sense of accountability makes people a little less flaky, all while relieving me from the stress caused by expectations rising and then crashing into a sea of disappointment. It's not foolproof, but it gives me permission to let them know I'm not happy if fickleness appears, because they have been warned, and it's unusual enough that they remember it.
I had several friend over the years, none of whom have ever seen me get even the slightest bit angry, tell me that I was the one person they least wanted to cancel or run late on, because they knew they would have a good time, but also knew that improper behavior would not fly. And you know what? I'm kind of happy that I've set that kind of boundaries

Setting boundaries & warn them from the beginning. And you keep your word. They know they cant mess with you. I admire how you can be strict but kind at the same time.. I've problem being strict since i'm indecisive myself & didnt think what i want before it happens.. Any insight?

I'm willing to bet he didn't really have intentions of actually giving me a keychain, and probably said so before he even realize what he was saying, so he had to make up a fib about the GM rather than own up to the blunder or engage in a perceived situation of losing face. It's unlikely he had actually forgotten, because he still had the other 3 keychains, and later on I saw a secretary who he knew was bullying me rocking one of the keychains.
My point is, some people you can't really hold accountable for their promises, especially not on the little things, but it doesn't make it sting any less.

Uh, that boss & secretary, jerks! He didnt want to give it, but didnt have the heart to be honest with you, and said it just as courtesy.. And just brushed it off... Ugh, the secretary was bullying you? What a jerk!! Are you okay?

 

[Loren]

Infuriates me so much! Makes me feel so gullible and naive for taking them at their word. Why can people not just say “sorry.. won’t be going to.. today” it just beyond disrespectful to do this.

I empathize with you, and have, virtually, no tolerance for lack of respect, particularly when it comes to friends/friendships, or relationships of any kind. As the result of the way I have been treated by some people, I refuse to ever, again, invest myself in anyone who doesn't have the same level of respect and regard for me, that I would have for them, or, anyone for that matter.

 

[Nauti]

I don't think this is an NT/ASD issue. It's just that some people aren't reliable, regardless of their neurological status.
Brene Brown has a useful acronym to gauge trustworthiness.

It is B.R.A.V.I.N.G.
Boundaries
Reliability
Accountability
Vault (as in confidentiality)
Integrity
Non judgemental
Generous
So if people tick those criteria? Deem them trustworthy. If they fall short, be short on trust of them. Of course, for this to work, we need to apply the same criteria to ourselves.

 

[Frostee]

Well you people would be surprised to know that this was another autistic person who has done this. One whom has been acting quite odd lately, but whatever.