Losing My Religion

[SimonSays]

The main difference between how I feel now and how I felt before, involves the loss of a conscious connection with what I’ll call God, as I have no other way to describe it. Guiding me, showing me, helping me in ways that felt so personal, it left me in no doubt this was what was happening.

I've never been a religious man, but I was really humbled by it nonetheless. The way things took place, how my life changed, how my thoughts expanded to include things I’d never thought before, the relationships that occurred, the people I loved, and those who loved me, all seemed laid out for me and I was simply experiencing them in perfect timing.

I can't say when this changed exactly. I just know I stopped experiencing it.

When I was a child I relied on my mother far more than I realised, and then, once she’d done her best for me, I had to step into the world and make my own way. Even though I wanted/needed to be my own person, I never really found him, so when this divine maternal presence appeared, it was exactly what I needed. I wasn’t alone. I wasn't doing it by myself anymore.

But every so often I’d lose this feeling and find myself involved in selfish things. Life slowly changed, to the point where I was no longer even sure whether any of it had been real.

So the difference between me and him could be the recognition of a delusional state. And yet, his life was so real. He had relationships and friendships and love. And my life is so far from that. Perhaps it wasn't he who was the one who was delusional.

A prisoner sometimes finds religion as a way of bringing meaning and support into his life. If I need to believe in order to belong, I don't know how to do it.

I’ve had the opportunity to speak with Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and Christians, finding many sincere and genuine people, while never quite being able to identify with any of them, at least not to the extent I’d need to. I could understand their connection, but could not join the club. The best I seem able to do now, from time to time anyway, is peer in through the window.

 

[Suzette]

I have explored nearly every religion and I have found that they all have "oneness" at their heart. I have rejected every religion though because I discovered that they all focus on the man made part of laws and rules and ignore the "oneness".

 

[1984]

My wife is an ex-Christian. A few years ago we met up with a group of members from one of her former churches. We ate lunch and had casual conversation about life in general. At some point they started the inevitable god talks. We didn't want to be rude and just leave, so we just listened without comment.

After about 10-15 minutes of listening to them talk about things god was doing in their lives, showing them, telling them, etc. I had an epiphany. The voice that they are calling "god" I also hear. I just call it my subconscious because that's what it is. I can understand that for someone who was indoctrinated into a religious world view as a child having thoughts and feelings that seem to appear out of nowhere could seem like they are coming from a god.

Modern understanding of human psychology suggests that our subconscious may be as much as 75% of who we are. It's not hard to see how someone looking at the world through god colored glasses could come to understand that a large part of their thoughts and feelings that seem to be coming from somewhere else is proof of a god.

 

[AprilR]

Many religious people experience these feelings also. I am also not religious, but i believe in God and that he protected and shielded me in many ways.

I say, if you feel at peace with yourself when you sleep at night it doesn't matter. Your conscience being clear is the greatest peace you can achieve.

 

[KingDiamond]

I have explored nearly every religion and I have found that they all have "oneness" at their heart. I have rejected every religion though because I discovered that they all focus on the man made part of laws and rules and ignore the "oneness".

Organized religion is all about control none of them make sense.

 

[Suzette]

When I was 16 I found out that anyone can start a religion here I live. You just have to fill in the right paperwork and send it to the right office. They basically can`t say no because we have freedom of religion. And one thing that got my attention was that the state paid you around $50 a year for each member in your religion. So if you just get 20 000 people to sign up you get a cool million a year.

I of course saw this as a way to make some quick money lol I was a greedy teenager, always looking for income. So I quickly made a religion based on brooms and it was about working hard and keeping the world clean. Brooms because that was the first thing I saw when I looked around the room for ideas. Luckily I didn`t go through with it, I would have ended up as a cult leader. There may have been something wrong with me when I was 16, I had so many ridiculous ideas. But sometimes they actually worked.

Nothing wrong with making religion a clean sweep. It certainly would bring new meaning to pan handling. But there might be a dust up over over "cult" or religion status.

 

[Suzette]

@Forest Cat, you would have been in company with 100% tele-evangelists. You could have taken that $50 per person an invested it as a charitable investment and lived off the dividends tax free. It is a very modern career choice! But honestly, you could make almost as much with a YouTube channel.

 

[SimonSays]

I'm not looking for a religion. I'm not trying to connect with a group of spiritual people. But there is a feeling that something is missing. There is definitely a lack of community, family, in my life, and it is this that has seemed missing, or at least that is what I've been imagining is missing.

When I felt that God connection, I didn't need anything else. What I had was enough. More than enough. There were people in my life, many of whom I loved being around. But it didn't matter, not really, because there was something going on that gave me something no person ever could.

Since then I've made the mistake of attempting to find that connection in other people, and of course, failed. I've felt for a long time that any form of connection with God can only be direct and personal, and doesn't need to go through an intermediary or a group. In fact those things actually interfere and inhibit the reality of it.

So I wonder where is it? Why does it seem so elusive now when it was so present and obvious before? It can only be me. I must be different in a way that doesn't allow me to feel it that way.
I can't look for it. The more I try the more ephemeral it all seems. The only thing I can do is accept things as they are. Which seems to be all I ever do these days.

 

[SimonSays]

There has been an internal struggle going on in me, between the need to be self-reliant and the recognition of a need for help, and being able to accept that help or even ask for it. Self-reliance feels like a freer way of being, whereas accepting that the form in which help may come may not be what I need. And yet whenever I receive the gift of help, especially when it comes unexpectedly or in unexpected ways, it always makes me feel connected. I really appreciate this feeling. It is a feeling of love.

I've always struggled to ask for help. I don't like feeling I’m a burden. I don't like putting people in a position where they have to do something because they are kind and caring. I can't expect to be helped, or even reveal that I might need it so I can be.

Even when I felt I was being self-reliant, I wasn't really, as there was this underlying personal support from something that could support me exactly how I needed to be, without me needing to say a word. And I could just accept what happened as being the result of what needed to, regardless of what it looked like. I suppose in many ways I still do. I just don't have the same faith or insight that I once did.

 

[Rasputin]

My only comment regarding Christianity is that the church always seems to be in conflict with science. Why does religion require one to suspend all logic and reason?

 

[Alexej]

I'm not looking for a religion. I'm not trying to connect with a group of spiritual people. But there is a feeling that something is missing. There is definitely a lack of community, family, in my life, and it is this that has seemed missing, or at least that is what I've been imagining is missing.

When I felt that God connection, I didn't need anything else. What I had was enough. More than enough. There were people in my life, many of whom I loved being around. But it didn't matter, not really, because there was something going on that gave me something no person ever could.

I hear you.
For me finding a connection with spiritual people, with whom I can connect, speak and be real is a hard ask. I have just signed out of a church to which I belonged for 5 years, due to a lack of connection with the folks there.

However, the connection with God, the Divine or however you want to name it is a completely other matter. The sense of the presence of God has been largely absent from me for several years, and I do not know the warm presence of the divine. The feeling is absent for me.

However, in my better moments I remember that the absence of the divine, the knowledge of the lack, the longing for the presence, is itself a witness to of the divine.

Love Dogs by Rumi


One night a man was crying,
"Allah, Allah!"
His lips grew sweet with the praising,
until a cynic said,
"So! I have heard you
calling out, but have you ever
gotten any response?"
The man had no answer for that.
He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep.
He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls,
in a thick, green foliage,
"Why did you stop praising?"
"Because I've never heard anything back."
"This longing you express
is the return message."
The grief you cry out from
draws you toward union.
Your pure sadness that wants help
is the secret cup.
Listen to the moan of a dog for its master.
That whining is the connection.
There are love dogs no one knows the names of.
Give your life to be one of them

 

[Alexej]

There has been an internal struggle going on in me, between the need to be self-reliant and the recognition of a need for help, and being able to accept that help or even ask for it. Self-reliance feels like a freer way of being, whereas accepting that the form in which help may come may not be what I need. And yet whenever I receive the gift of help, especially when it comes unexpectedly or in unexpected ways, it always makes me feel connected. I really appreciate this feeling. It is a feeling of love.

I've always struggled to ask for help. I don't like feeling I’m a burden. I don't like putting people in a position where they have to do something because they are kind and caring. I can't expect to be helped, or even reveal that I might need it so I can be.

Being self reliant is good, but I recognise a danger, for me, in that one. I do not want to end up earning the epithet, "He is a self made man and proud of his maker".

Asking for help - always a hard one. No I find that really hard for myself too.
With my diagnosis of ASC I now understand a bit about being different and that plays into this story too.

Even when I felt I was being self-reliant, I wasn't really, as there was this underlying personal support from something that could support me exactly how I needed to be, without me needing to say a word. And I could just accept what happened as being the result of what needed to, regardless of what it looked like. I suppose in many ways I still do. I just don't have the same faith or insight that I once did.

This sounds like something worth hanging onto - "without me having to say a word".

 

[Tom]

For me, finding my way back to God was a lifesaver.

'May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.' (Galadriel to Frodo in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings)

 

[Suzette]

The more I try the more ephemeral it all seems. The only thing I can do is accept things as they are. Which seems to be all I ever do these days.

Volumes have been written on "accepting things as they are". Spiritual books, motivational writers, psychology and other self help books cover this very thing endlessly.
Ekhardt Tolle "The Power of Now", "Be Here Now" by Ram Dass are just two of those books.
So are you accepting or just trying to figure out what it means?

Isn't it interesting that the two books I choose to illustrate "accepting things as they are" seem to be about something else? (I know you know this one!)

Discontent can not arrise out of acceptance. But, while acceptance is the recipe for peace, who says being in a tranquil state is what you really need? Sure, the concept has earned a few gurus some bread, but it is only part of the story.

Let me put it this way - the big bang didn't arrise out of acceptance of the way things were. "Accepting" can also mean allowing yourself to tear yourself (preconcieved ideas) apart on your way to creation.

 

[Suzette]

The more I try the more ephemeral it all seems. The only thing I can do is accept things as they are. Which seems to be all I ever do these days.

Volumes have been written on "accepting things as they are". Spiritual books, motivational writers, psychology and other self help books cover this very thing endlessly.
Ekhardt Tolle "The Power of Now", "Be Here Now" by Ram Dass are just two of those books.
So are you accepting or just trying to figure out what it means?

Isn't it interesting that the two books I choose to illustrate "accepting things as they are" seem to be about something else? (I know you know this one!)

Discontent can not arrise out of acceptance. But, while acceptance is the recipe for peace, who says being in a tranquil state is what you really need? Sure, the concept has earned a few gurus some bread, but it is only part of the story.

Let me put it this way - the big bang didn't arrise out of acceptance of the way things were. "Accepting" can also mean allowing yourself to tear yourself (preconcieved ideas) apart on your way to creation.

 

[SimonSays]

So are you accepting or just trying to figure out what it means?

Depends. It's not a perfect practice; the pendulum swings from contented acceptance, to discontented questioning, from time to time.

Is it possible to accept the unacceptable? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But the practice is valuable nonetheless. I've noticed that what once seemed unacceptable can change, although that doesn't mean I will accept it forever, just for now at least, which is all there ever is anyway.

I understand the need to reinvent or at least restructure, but I have to be careful as to the motive for my doing so. In many ways, finding peace through acceptance is what matters, at least until it becomes obvious that some action is required.

But what state should action come out of? I'd rather not react if I can help it, but if I'm overthinking it, something is also wrong. To feel inspired and act, to move towards something without doubt, that feeling is unmistakable. But when there is doubt, I tend to sit down and do nowt, and I focus on returning to a state of peace of mind, and often by then, I realise that the urge to change something is no longer present.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

signed out of a church ... due to a lack of connection with the folks

This describes exactly the total contradiction

 

[Streetwise]

My wife is an ex-Christian. A few years ago we met up with a group of members from one of her former churches. We ate lunch and had casual conversation about life in general. At some point they started the inevitable god talks. We didn't want to be rude and just leave, so we just listened without comment.

After about 10-15 minutes of listening to them talk about things god was doing in their lives, showing them, telling them, etc. I had an epiphany. The voice that they are calling "god" I also hear. I just call it my subconscious because that's what it is. I can understand that for someone who was indoctrinated into a religious world view as a child having thoughts and feelings that seem to appear out of nowhere could seem like they are coming from a god.

Modern understanding of human psychology suggests that our subconscious may be as much as 75% of who we are. It's not hard to see how someone looking at the world through god colored glasses could come to understand that a large part of their thoughts and feelings that seem to be coming from somewhere else is proof of a god.

Got to disagree God is omniscient your subconscious isnt

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

The word:

God

is a job title.
How each of us applies it depends on the parameters of teachings we've each received, and on our relationship.
Obviously the dinner partners have to try to speak for themselves better, but I've come across those types.
Just to pick a trinitarian example how many churchy people would understand Comforter or providence? Did their preachers teach them not to want to know? Did they teach them to own their own insights or just parrot? (That's for argument sake, not to discuss doctrines as such.)
Then these careless and unnecessary contretemps are repeated over and over in every denomination / flavour of belief system. Resulting that the "adherents" aren't supposed to have anything worth applying.

 

[1984]

Got to disagree God is omniscient yo

Got to disagree there is good evidence that a subconscious exists. There is no good evidence for the existence of gods. If you take away confirmation bias, magical thinking, and circular reasoning what is religion really left with? Superstition.