Looking for astrology study participants

[Sunsprawl]

Do you think 10 charts will be enough? Maybe as a preliminary study, but ideally a huge database of hundreds or thousands of charts would be more useful. However I understand the inevitable resource constraints. Someone should start an ASC-Astrology database where diagnosed and self-diagnosed individuals upload their (verified) birth times and some demographic and life details - both quantitative and qualitative. Unfortunately you may only get those who are open-minded about astrology responding, so a biased, self-selected sample!

Jupiter rules Sagittarius so that would support my hypothesis. In astrology, there are four mutable signs: Gemini, also an air sign; Virgo, an earth sign; Sagittarius, a fire sign; and Pisces, a water sign. The term "mutable" is a quality assigned to a sign. There are three qualities, such as mutable, cardinal and fixed.

Your hypotheses sound interesting. You haven't said which directions they might go in so here are the questions that come to mind about them:

What would constitute afflictions to the Ascendant? How are you going to operationalise this? Square Saturn maybe or Opposition Uranus? Wouldn't NTs be just as likely to have these?

Moon = emotions, so what do you suppose is different about the emotional responses of ASC individuals? That they have less emotion following the stereotype that they are more logical, like robots?

Mercury = mind - are you hereby tapping into the systematising hypothesis about ASC minds? Surely not all ASC individuals view the world through the intellectual modality, even if they have to rely on logical faculties to take the place of the missing social-political circuits in the mind.

Mars = aggression. It would be interesting to know what your theory is about ASC individuals and their aggression.

Or have I simplified their symbolism here too much? I'm just keen to learn more!

Yes, 10 charts is a very small sample. I love the idea of a database! As mentioned in another post, it indeed is enough for the purposes of my class and I am organizing it to be a gateway study into further inquiry. Later on I will include famous HF autists, self-diagnosed, as well as suspected but undiagnosed to see where there may be correlations with the diagnosed study (or not!).

"Why then do you say you think the mutable signs *aren't* involved?"
I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I used a double negative with "aren't." I will definitely be on the lookout for the involvement of the mutable signs precisely because of their rulerships.

The Vedic system is very different from the Western system, although anciently they have the same origin. Afflictions to the ascendant will be harsh aspects (defined differently in the Vedic system) to the ascendant itself or to the ascendant lord. Yes, many NT people have such afflictions, which is why I'm going to look for several factors in several layers and see if their are any relationships/patterns between charts. It's true, I'm not sure what I will find! I hope to find something that differentiates what NT people experience, but I really don't know.

In your example of the Moon, I am not looking for a lack of responsiveness per se, or a robotic, overly logical orientation as opposed to emotional. I just want to know what is happening for the Moon (Mind - which in VA also includes the emotions and social relationships), are there afflictions that alter the expression of the Moon (aspects by Saturn Mars or the North Node, combustion)? Are there yod type aspects with the Asc. and Asc. lord that don't let the emotions come through to the outside world? Is the Moon found in detrimental house that makes it more difficult to express? Combinations of the above? How does the Moon express in the divisional charts? Which Nakshatra is it in? Which Nakshatra is its opposite? This is an example of some of the questions I will be asking myself. I will have similar approaches with Mercury, Jupiter and Mars.

 

[Sunsprawl]

Hello! I like thinking about study design, and I was wondering how you're planning to account for volunteer bias in your sample group? I'm worried that the only people who volunteer will be those who believe in astrology, and then it won't be a representative sample. In addition, by only studying officially diagnosed people, I'm wondering if that will bias your results by placing a higher emphasis on classically recognized autism traits. I've read some interesting studies where instead of requiring a formal diagnosis, the study authors used standard tests such as the autism quotient to determine who could participate. You might have thought of all of this already and just not included it in your short intro, so if that's the case, then I apologize for the redundancy.

I really appreciate your critical thinking, study design is of major importance. I consider this to be a gateway project to several other projects: famous HF autists, self-diagnosed, individuals suspected by family members to be HFA as well as looking at severe autism and noticing if it represents an increase in severity in the same qualities found in HF charts or if it is something entirely different. I love your idea about AQ, I just don't have the time or the resources to go that route, nor is it necessary for the purposes of finishing my course. It would be an interesting additional study to this one, further down the line!

 

[Fino]

What I found a bit odd was the questioning of the conclusion that Autism is a spectrum. Is it really possible to reasonably argue against this?

 

[Sunsprawl]

A full reading of the Chart would not be necessary, in that it's been done already!

I don't do telephones: it's an Asperger's thing.

But I am quite keen on depth (possibly I'm just a masochist, but there again this too could be an Asperger's foible, i.e. fanatically pursuing something to an obsessive extreme).

List of questions might be helpful and could save many many hours!

Is there a protocol in this forum for having a private conversation? I have an appointment right now but will available a little later. I will compile my list of questions for you.

 

[Sunsprawl]

What I found a bit odd was the questioning of the conclusion that Autism is a spectrum. Is it really possible to reasonably argue against this?

I know there is controversy in including Asperger's as part of the spectrum. I'm just remaining as open-minded as possible. Question everything!

 

[Raphael Outcast]

Is there a protocol in this forum for having a private conversation? I have an appointment right now but will available a little later. I will compile my list of questions for you.

Not sure, poppet; I'm new here myself!

But there probably is.

Actually I'm sure there is. I don't know how she did it, but someone I knew from another forum sent me a private message asking if I was me. Which I was, as it turned out.

So there must be a way.

 

[tree]

@Raphael Outcast
@Sunsprawl

You could use your Inbox for Private Conversation that is like email.
You could use a Private Chat if you wanted fluid conversation.

Either of those options are private.
Unlike threads, which are public.

 

[Sunsprawl]

@Raphael Outcast
@Sunsprawl

You could use your Inbox for Private Conversation that is like email.
You could use a Private Chat if you wanted fluid conversation.

Either of those options are private.
Unlike threads, which are public.

Thank you!!

 

[Ken S.]

@Raphael Outcast You have every right to believe what you want and I would physically defend that right. My take on the whole how our universe was formed along with all the endless galaxies is, While I don't have an answer I don't agree with either of the two most popular hypothesis. Creationism and the Big Bang "Theory" as both require a leap of faith and have a supernatural element to them.

 

[Nervous Rex]

I try to avoid astrology. 1 out of every 12 people who engage in astrology get cancer.

 

[Nervous Rex]

Why, thank you!

Now: as to the matter of Elizabeth being an octopus—this is a question which must be urgently addressed; some kind of arm-and-leg-counting assessment exercise, possibly?!

The Octopus, by Ogden Nash

Tell me, O Octopus, I begs
Is those things arms, or is they legs?
I marvel at thee, Octopus;
If I were thou, I’d call me Us.

 

[Nervous Rex]

Question everything!

Why?

 

[tree]

Why?

Why not?

 

[Tom]

I am sorry but you are too late. I already proved donuts control one's destiny. Well, actually more like blood sugar level and maybe life span... but that is destiny right?

 

[Nervous Rex]

I am sorry but you are too late. I already proved donuts control one's destiny. Well, actually more like blood sugar level and maybe life span... but that is destiny right?

Decisions Determine Destiny
Donuts Determine Density

 

[grommet]

It would sound a tad less rude if you called astrology "a pursuit widely regarded as a pseudoscience", perhaps. We don't know it's a pseudoscience ...

We do.

 

[grommet]

Flying Purple People Eaters have not been widely studied. It is not because scientists are lazy.

 

[Misery]

Flying Purple People Eaters have not been widely studied. It is not because scientists are lazy.

That depends.

Frankly, as someone often accused of being a Vulcan (albeit a really sarcastic one), I tend to look at alot of scientists (and science-types) read what they say, watch them.... and I facepalm. Let's just put it that way. Not because of them getting any specific fact wrong, no no no. It's because of the way they look at things around them, the way they process and judge those things, and then follow it up with saying "THAT'S SCIENCE BECAUSE I SAID SO". And the amazing amount of ways where they allow emotion and related things get in the way.

True, un-biased, open logical thinking? Ye gods, no. That thing over there seems WEIRD. It doesnt match our pre-conceived notions! No matter that our instruments are primitive beyond comprehension and we cant even begin to touch 99% of what makes up reality and therefore experimenting on certain concepts is literally impossible right now, never mind the fact that we cant even understand our own bodies (isnt that sad?) or get off this one dumb rock, CLEARLY we already know everything about the universe/multiverse/??? and are 100% correct in answering all of the Big Questions, and that thing over there doesnt fit into our clearly perfect understanding that obviously has no flaws or holes in it. We have !!SCIENCE!! on our side, after all! We must therefore laugh at those that think differently, and we shall butt into conversations where we arent wanted to tell them as such (I hate when people do that). SCIENCE AHOY!!!!

Alot of what you get from so many science-types aint actually "scientific thinking". It's arrogance and vanity, often with a bit of (okay, alot of) tribalism mixed in. Not to mention this odd tendency to instantly follow ideas heard, IF they come from certain types of sources (I find that one particularly interesting). Good luck getting most to actually spot that though.

Dont get me wrong: Scientific understanding is important. And scientific advances do happen (albeit at the speed of a dead frog in sludge). Obviously. But even alot of actual scientists go about the process in a rather nonsensical way, making such an incredible amount of assumptions and attacking all non-believers (as in, anyone who doesnt take the same almighty approach) with such venom that you'd think they were part of a religious cult. It's no wonder we havent gotten off of this one bloody planet yet or cured the common freaking cold, considering how many of them think and approach things. That stuff gets accomplished at all frankly baffles me.

Seriously. If I facepalmed hard enough to do it all justice, the shockwave would blow out a wall. I aint cleaning that up.

To those that are interested in Astrology or whatever else... keep at it. You have your reasons and experiences and your own logic behind your interests/beliefs, and who knows, you might be right. You really might. Heck if I know. It's not a subject I personally know much about, so there is little I can say about it.

There, I'm done. That's all I'll say on this topic, I aint sticking around this one. The red flags aint here yet, but I can see the spots they're about to pop up from. They tend to be... predictable. As it is, I knew in advance what I'd find, entering this topic. And having spotted more than one instance of said thing in here, that's my cue to fly into the sunset. After potentially having made things worse, I know. I use this name for a reason.


Oh, and one last thing: @Sunsprawl I'd be happy to join in the study (just message me if you'd like. I dont intend to stick around this topic), despite that I know next to nothing about astrology. I like hearing about new topics I know little about. Even if I just wind up even more confused half the time. And sometimes doing a study like this can be amusing. I find the questioning process interesting (usually). Of course that's assuming I havent annoyed the heck outta you already with my ranting. Perhaps I may have.

And that's it, time's up, I'm scheduled to go have a backache now. Do have a nice day, all.

 

[Fino]

I know there is controversy in including Asperger's as part of the spectrum. I'm just remaining as open-minded as possible. Question everything!

I didn't realize there was this controversy. Either way, that doesn't deal with whether or not Autism is a spectrum.

 

[Fino]

That depends.

Frankly, as someone often accused of being a Vulcan (albeit a really sarcastic one), I tend to look at alot of scientists (and science-types) read what they say, watch them.... and I facepalm. Let's just put it that way. Not because of them getting any specific fact wrong, no no no. It's because of the way they look at things around them, the way they process and judge those things, and then follow it up with saying "THAT'S SCIENCE BECAUSE I SAID SO". And the amazing amount of ways where they allow emotion and related things get in the way.

True, un-biased, open logical thinking? Ye gods, no. That thing over there seems WEIRD. It doesnt match our pre-conceived notions! No matter that our instruments are primitive beyond comprehension and we cant even begin to touch 99% of what makes up reality and therefore experimenting on certain concepts is literally impossible right now, never mind the fact that we cant even understand our own bodies (isnt that sad?) or get off this one dumb rock, CLEARLY we already know everything about the universe/multiverse/??? and are 100% correct in answering all of the Big Questions, and that thing over there doesnt fit into our clearly perfect understanding that obviously has no flaws or holes in it. We have !!SCIENCE!! on our side, after all! We must therefore laugh at those that think differently, and we shall butt into conversations where we arent wanted to tell them as such (I hate when people do that). SCIENCE AHOY!!!!

Alot of what you get from so many science-types aint actually "scientific thinking". It's arrogance and vanity, often with a bit of (okay, alot of) tribalism mixed in. Not to mention this odd tendency to instantly follow ideas heard, IF they come from certain types of sources (I find that one particularly interesting). Good luck getting most to actually spot that though.

Dont get me wrong: Scientific understanding is important. And scientific advances do happen (albeit at the speed of a dead frog in sludge). Obviously. But even alot of actual scientists go about the process in a rather nonsensical way, making such an incredible amount of assumptions and attacking all non-believers (as in, anyone who doesnt take the same almighty approach) with such venom that you'd think they were part of a religious cult. It's no wonder we havent gotten off of this one bloody planet yet or cured the common freaking cold, considering how many of them think and approach things. That stuff gets accomplished at all frankly baffles me.

Seriously. If I facepalmed hard enough to do it all justice, the shockwave would blow out a wall. I aint cleaning that up.

To those that are interested in Astrology or whatever else... keep at it. You have your reasons and experiences and your own logic behind your interests/beliefs, and who knows, you might be right. You really might. Heck if I know. It's not a subject I personally know much about, so there is little I can say about it.

There, I'm done. That's all I'll say on this topic, I aint sticking around this one. The red flags aint here yet, but I can see the spots they're about to pop up from. They tend to be... predictable. As it is, I knew in advance what I'd find, entering this topic. And having spotted more than one instance of said thing in here, that's my cue to fly into the sunset. After potentially having made things worse, I know. I use this name for a reason.


Oh, and one last thing: @Sunsprawl I'd be happy to join in the study (just message me if you'd like. I dont intend to stick around this topic), despite that I know next to nothing about astrology. I like hearing about new topics I know little about. Even if I just wind up even more confused half the time. And sometimes doing a study like this can be amusing. I find the questioning process interesting (usually). Of course that's assuming I havent annoyed the heck outta you already with my ranting. Perhaps I may have.

And that's it, time's up, I'm scheduled to go have a backache now. Do have a nice day, all.

While I agree with you in many ways, I feel like the technology that surrounds us everywhere we go is more impressive than you give it credit for. Computers, smartphones, cars, airplanes, space travel, satellites, microwaves, vaccines, medicine, surgery, and on and on and on, pretty much everything amazes me.

But I still basically agree with you in most ways.