It's so sad I have to laugh...

[daisychain]

Some of you may remember me posting earlier about my relationship with a lovely, smart, funny man who I think is on the spectrum. Here's the round up: met in July 2014; dated; became intimate in November; December I hadn't seen him in a few weeks (scheduling issues) and said "I missed you". He immediately said "can we talk? I don't want to be exclusive right now." I felt hurt; hid it; tried to lay low, emotionally. I'm normally very affectionate and if I like someone, I tell them. But with him, I tried not to.

We see each other once a week, at most. He's always "really busy". Often with volunteer stuff which to my mind, could be how he creates a built in obstacle to more face time. About a month ago, I was ready to say I needed to move on. Because my emotional needs weren't being met. And as much as it would hurt not seeing him, it hurts more seeing him and not feeling more of a connection, or emotional intimacy.

But I didn't say that, and every time I know I'm going to see him, I feel so happy. So now I'm trying to have a sense of humor about it. I emailed him: "when's our anniversary?" and I gave him these 3 potential answers: when we first met; when we became intimate; and 3 -- "you're scaring me".

After a day, he said "Ahhh…..3?"

I replied: "I knew you'd remember "

In the meantime, he told me friends of his had plans to be in Paris in July and he was going to meet up with them. He never asked me to join him. I said "can I tag along"? (Pathetic, I know). He said yes, and now seems to be into the idea.

Last Sunday, we met up for dinner, and he said "before we talk about your day and my day, I want to make something clear -- I haven't changed my position from before -- I'm not ready for an exclusive relationship. I just want to make sure we're on the same page."

I started to cry. It was so cold -- like he was doing a Power Point presentation. If he'd said something like "you know, we've spent a lot of time together so far, and it's all been good, but I'm not ready just yet to make any kind of formal commitment. That's just how I feel. Now I want hear how you feel" then I wouldn't have cried.

I did a good job hiding it, but at the end of our dinner, he could tell I was upset. I told him friends of mine asked me if he would propose or do something romantic while we were in Paris (it's for his friends to renew their wedding vows, so "love is in the air" so to speak). And I told him what I told them: it would never occur to you. Because I know it wouldn't. Yet he seemed surprised when I said that.

So now I have to ask myself if I even want to go to Paris with him. Because if I'm going to be there, thinking: this is torture, being in a romantic city with a romantic reason with a man whom I love in so many ways yet he emphatically doesn't want to take the next step after dating for 9 months/6 months (depending on our anniversary)…then why am I here? And why am I still seeing him?

This is the advice I seek: am I overreacting? Is his response typical of someone on the spectrum? Am I never going to hear the words "I love you" or even "I like you a lot" from him? Should I go to Paris? Should I go to Paris and buy a skirt that's 2 sizes too small because it's from Paris and I'll lose the weight someday?

These are all important questions. And bottom line, I have to laugh.

 

[Judge]

Nope...it's not funny. I can see how you could feel hurt after investing nine months of dating.

Yet the only things in this scenario I see that might reflect his autistic behavior would be a possible disconnect between nine months of dating relative to an undefined relationship. That for some of us, the passage of time itself doesn't automatically relate to emotional attachment- or commitment. And also that his work at the present may or may not reflect his only real mental and emotional commitment.

Beyond that, I see nothing in this scenario that decisively relates to autistic behavior. I just see two people who simply aren't on the same emotional "page" after so much time has elapsed. After all, he came right out and told you "I don't want to be exclusive right now."

Frankly it sounds much more like "he's just not that into you" than anything indicative of being on the spectrum.

Something to ponder:

9 Signs He’s Just Not That into You by Lesli White| He’s Not Into You | Signs He’s Not Into You | He’s Just Not That Into You | How to Tell If He’s Not Into You | Signs He’s Not Into You Anymore | Unmistakable Signs He’s Not Into You | Admitting He’s Not Into You |Signs He’s Just Not That Into You | - Beliefnet.com

 

[daisychain]

Nope...it's not funny. I can see how you could feel hurt after investing nine months of dating.

Yet the only things in this scenario I see that might reflect his autistic behavior would be a possible disconnect between nine months of dating relative to an undefined relationship. That for some of us, the passage of time itself doesn't automatically relate to emotional attachment- or commitment. And also that his work at the present may or may not reflect his only real mental and emotional commitment.

Beyond that, I see nothing in this scenario that decisively relates to autistic behavior. I just see two people who simply aren't on the same emotional "page" after so much time has elapsed. After all, he came right out and told you "I don't want to be exclusive right now."

Frankly it sounds much more like "he's just not that into you" than anything indicative of being on the spectrum.

Something to ponder:

9 Signs He’s Just Not That into You by Lesli White| He’s Not Into You | Signs He’s Not Into You | He’s Just Not That Into You | How to Tell If He’s Not Into You | Signs He’s Not Into You Anymore | Unmistakable Signs He’s Not Into You | Admitting He’s Not Into You |Signs He’s Just Not That Into You | - Beliefnet.com

Thanks Judge for reading my post and replying. I would agree with you except that he has introduced me to: his family; his co-workers; his friends; his neighbors. He said he would miss it if I didn't come out to see him.

But bottom line, my gut tells me this is going nowhere for me, emotionally. So it really doesn't matter if he fits a profile or not. I am worthy of being loved, the way I want to be loved. I don't need to wait or settle or beg for the few emotional crumbs he throws my way.

I think I've found my answer.

Thanks again

 

[Tia Maria]

I agree with Judge that it is not funny; & your hurt & disappointment are understandable (& sad).

IF you do go to Paris with him, I would recommend trying to enjoy it as a trip with someone whose company you love, but view it as kind of a last hurrah & having fun with a friend. Do not harbor romantic expectations or the idea that he is the love of your life & someone with whom you will share a future. And please buy a skirt in your perfect size so you can enjoy wearing it now!!!! Maybe treat yourself to some other things while there too.

Although I think Judge's response above is spot on, you may regret not going on this trip as planned. Be good to yourself, you deserve it.

 

[Judge]

But bottom line, my gut tells me this is going nowhere for me, emotionally.

I agree. But I'd also add one other thing. Cut your losses. Don't take that trip. Spend your money and emotional resources on something else that truly pleases you.

Don't be a party to "friends with benefits". You're looking for something better and entitled to that.

 

[daisychain]

Thanks, Judge -- I was thinking the same thing. I'm coming out of a searing divorce and saddled with all kinds of bills. I'd rather spend that on a nice trip with my daughter or son who have been through a lot. It's not like "going to Paris" with this guy will pay off in the end.

 

[daisychain]

Ola Tia Maria
Thanks for your kind and caring response.
Yes -- I will go to Paris someday, and buy a skirt in my size (or a whole dress -- WTF!)

If I had a lot of funds, I could see going with him as a friend.
But I don't.
And hence, I think I might not go with him on this trip.
As I think about it, I'd rather go on a trip with one or two of my beautiful children.
I'd spend less, and get more, emotionally.

 

[royinpink]

This all sounds very familiar to me. So to all those people who apparently know aspie guys who actually confess their feelings, I just have to attest that this is not always the case. However, I think there were some reasons for that in my (or rather, his) case. So before ruling out that he could have feelings, I'd ask 1) How overwhelming is work for him? Does he have any emotional energy 'left over' so to speak? Yes, 'busy' is an excuse, but it may be the only socially acceptable explanation he can find for what's overwhelming him. 2) Why does he say he isn't ready for an exclusive relationship? There's a good chance he's being honest about his own needs, not making a statement about you.

That said, I wouldn't want to give you false hope. If he's that set on it, it will in all likelihood take years for him to be "ready," and you deserve better. Taking some time for yourself would probably be good for both of you. And help you keep your good sense of humor, 'cause not having your needs met long term will drag you down and probably make you depressed. It's not worth it.

As for Paris, sounds like a nice trip if you can go just to enjoy yourself with no expectations of him. If you know it would be torture, however, then...don't torture yourself.

So, are you overreacting? No. Emphatically no.

Is his response typical of someone on the spectrum? Um...maybe not typical, but it happens, more so for guys. Lack of awareness of feelings (both our own and others') is pretty common, but something else is going on here. He's scared of commitment for some reason. Then again, that is pretty common for aspie guys, according to 22 Things a Woman Should Know if She Loves a Man with Asperger's Syndrome. I mean, Chapter 3 is called "Labels and Romantic Expectations Make Him Feel Nervous" and Chapter 20 is "Even if He Loves You and Values Your Relationship, It Is Possible You May Never Get a Commitment." Sometimes I feel like we got all the good ones here at AC or something.

Are you never going to hear the words "I love you" or even "I like you a lot" from him? I have no idea.

 

[On the Inside]

I went on a similar trip ("romantic locale"), under similar circumstances with an NT girlfriend. It was a difficult time, I could tell she was upset and disappointed about something, and she was rather critical of me. Later, she let it be known that she had considered it a really big step towards commitment, and I had been a bit of a jerk, which I thought was a bit presumptuous; I looked at it as two adventurous people who were getting to know each other better by taking a trip together. (We had been seeing each other for only 3 months.) Later, it was used against me, in that I wasn't able to meet emotional needs. I regret having taken that trip with her, and I'm sorry that we had such disparate views of what it meant, but that wasn't discussed beforehand. But if she had come right out and told me what she was expecting, I would have run the other way. We might have had more of a chance if we could have moved a little slower. I'm glad I got to go there, though, it was somewhere I would have never gone on my own. I know that sounds selfish, but eventually one has to re-evaluate things in a positive light.

I've just given you the Aspie male side of a similar situation. Was it lack of awareness of feelings and emotions? Yes, I'm a bit dense about that, people have to whack me over the head with it. Was it fear of commitment? Yes, but it was also far too early to think about commitment, even for a non-Aspie, I think. Was I just not that into her? No, she wanted things to progress way too fast for me.

I'd take a pass on the trip. It has a high probability to be disappointing, and you deserve better. He still might turn out to be a good partner, though, so maybe it's worth a little more time.

 

[daisychain]

roy -- thanks so much for the caring response. re: "so busy" -- he legitimately has been swamped with work and volunteer issues plus a death in his family; now he's planning on moving which I can see will keep him "very busy" for the next few months. After that, we're almost into the holidays which are also "really busy". So I'm thinking…never? Is never good for you? would be a good time for him to sink into the relationship

re: not ready to be exclusive -- I asked him right out if he was seeing someone else; he said no, but then he said he's not ready to take that off the table. I took that more as panicked at being with one person and what it implies vs male wanting to play the field. He also said later on "I just can't handle another thing right now." I try not to be needy -- I don't email or text him all the time with my problems -- I keep it upbeat. But I believe him -- he can't handle another thing right now. And for him, dating in a more serious way is a Big Thing.

I will check out that book. I think that would help me a lot.

Thanks ontheinside -- that's exactly what I was thinking -- we're going into this with 2 different sets of expectations. And honestly, Paris in July is like Manhattan in July -- filled with tourists. I'd rather go in the fall.

I think what I'm learning about myself is that I'm drawn to emotionally distant men. That was my dad; that was my ex. Because if I can "make them love me" (in quotes because I realize how idiotic that concept is), I'll prove to myself that I am lovable.

So I'm thinking no to Paris, and I'll move on this summer from this lovely sweet smart funny man. And try to find someone who is more emotionally available.

Or I'll get a dog.

 

[Suzanne]

I must be more aspie than I thought, because the only thing I see as wrong, is sleeping with each other! to be blunt, would you rather a guy who says one thing and behaves in another way? I mean the guy was being up front with you.

Sadly being intimate does not mean: commitment; it is just giving in to sexual desires, that leads to pain. We women, whether apsies or not, tend to be more emotionally connected, when intimate; not saying it is just women, but many times it is.

Personally, you should cancel going to Paris, because it is going to bode badly for you. If of course, you can separate your emotions, that is a different matter, but if you can't then it is better for your sense of well being, to not go.

Also you are doing too much running; you need to learn to not run and give him the chance to realise you mean more to him, than he first thought.

I have been there myself. falling in love with my ex boyfriend when we where both 18. I had no idea I was on the spectrum at this point, but found myself experiencing very scary emotions, until it hit me with horror that I loved him. It is only now, year's later, that I know he loved me, but at the time, I was too involved to see properly. What I found worked though ie to get him to show some kind of emotion toward's me, was to back away and let him do the running. One night, he phoned me and tried to be casual and said: Do you want to come over to my place tonight? Of course, my heart was jumping for joy and oh how I wanted to, but instead I said: sorry Ossie, but my sister is here right now and so, no not tonight and then said: glad you had a great evening and speak to you again soon and put the phone down, gently and my sister said: yeah she did it lol The next day, he phoned me and was literally BEGGING to spend time with me, so I kindly ( lol) gave him that pleasure. He had this weird habit of knocking on my bedroom window ( downstairs flat lol) and come out with: oh just popping around to see how you are doing????!!! I was so niave because all I could think was: wow he is here and, open the window and he would climb in and we would sleep in each other's arms. He did this so often that honestly, I was breathless with waiting for that familiar tap tap. I begin to think that perhaps he was or is an aspie too lol

 

[NTgirl4276]

hi, daisychain! you've already gotten such great advice so far so I won't pile on with more. just wanted to say that I'm glad to hear that you're finding some clarity in your situation and, hopefully soon, some peace.

you're absolutely right about one thing: you deserve all the love you crave.

 

[daisychain]

Thanks NTgirl! And so do you!

 

[Greg]

I would say that you are not overreacting at all. I would not waste the time with it since it is not going to move forward. Personally it is not something I would want to do.

 

[kris]

You've already gotten tons of great advice and looks like you are feeling more confident in your decision. I'll just add that I dated someone like that in a non-exclusive agreement for 2 years and I'll tell you that the heartache that followed after he told me he "had a girlfriend" was like none other. He did want commitment, just not with me. You're worth more than that.

Save that money and take a trip with your family or even better.. Travel solo

 

[royinpink]

roy -- thanks so much for the caring response. re: "so busy" -- he legitimately has been swamped with work and volunteer issues plus a death in his family; now he's planning on moving which I can see will keep him "very busy" for the next few months. After that, we're almost into the holidays which are also "really busy". So I'm thinking…never? Is never good for you? would be a good time for him to sink into the relationship

Ha, yeah, that would be a lot for anyone to have on their plate. I can definitely see him shutting down or shutting people out with that amount of stuff going on. It reached a point where it became even worse for 'my guy', probably because seeing me also became stressful for him when he was already swamped with work. A couple years later, before he left the country, he apologized for shutting me out (Gasp! An actual apology, lol) and said he just got overwhelmed.

re: not ready to be exclusive -- I asked him right out if he was seeing someone else; he said no, but then he said he's not ready to take that off the table. I took that more as panicked at being with one person and what it implies vs male wanting to play the field.

Yeah, that was my experience. Like, does he really want to see other people, or is he just afraid of commitment? But 'my guy' actually said straight out that although he couldn't commit to a relationship, two women would be way too much for him to handle at one time, and it would never happen. It wasn't truly a 'friends with benefits' situation.

However, not having the security or recognition of a relationship took a toll on me anyway, because I need trust and security, and he could basically shut me out or refuse my needs whenever he wanted since it was not a 'real' relationship. This made the relationship worse for both of us and destroyed my self-esteem. I would suggest you are just as respectful of your own needs as you are of his. Your need for commitment is just as valid as his need for space, and you should set terms for your relationship that you are comfortable with. If he can't cope with that, I second finding someone more emotionally available.

He also said later on "I just can't handle another thing right now." I try not to be needy -- I don't email or text him all the time with my problems -- I keep it upbeat. But I believe him -- he can't handle another thing right now. And for him, dating in a more serious way is a Big Thing.

Ditto on dating being a Big Thing. He was very absolute about it. The reason I asked about why he didn't want to be exclusive...well, in my guy's case, it wasn't just the label he was afraid of, but his previous (and only other) relationship ended quite horribly. He's not good at picking up and starting over, trusting again. Once he commits, he stays committed. Those are often (but not always) true of other aspies--very loyal, difficulty coping with change or betrayal.

I will check out that book. I think that would help me a lot.

Books are good. Haha, but seriously...it's like understanding another culture, and he can't explain it all to you. It also gives you a variety of perspectives from different relationships, not just generalizations. It's also important that he understand himself, though, and what effects his actions have on you.

I think what I'm learning about myself is that I'm drawn to emotionally distant men. That was my dad; that was my ex. Because if I can "make them love me" (in quotes because I realize how idiotic that concept is), I'll prove to myself that I am lovable.

Yeah, you're never going to be able to 'make him love you' in the way you want, although he may in his own way. That may be better as a friendship. You deserve a loving relationship.

 

[daisychain]

roy --you are such a compassionate, sane person -- I appreciate everything you said. It sounds like you really understand where I'm coming from, and have had many similar experiences. Best wishes to you too to find a loving relationship.

Kris -- God that must have hurt -- like a punch in the stomach. And yes, traveling solo is looking pretty good!

So right now, I'm 100% positive I am not going on the trip (I'll tell him this weekend when I see him) and I'm almost positive I will also tell him: I need to move on. That's how I'm going to say it. I have a big list of things I will not/should not say like: you're scared by commitment; you have problems with emotional intimacy; I deserve better; I started a thread about you; royinpink gets it; etc.

I'm going to stick to: I need to move on; I've enjoyed our time together, but for me (keep the emphasis on me), the relationship is not meeting my emotional needs. I need something more than you are able to give me right now. We can stay in touch. If you find, at some future point, that you are more able or willing to commit to me, then please reach out to me and we'll see if it makes sense to start up again. But right now, I need to move on.

 

[royinpink]

roy --you are such a compassionate, sane person -- I appreciate everything you said. It sounds like you really understand where I'm coming from, and have had many similar experiences. Best wishes to you too to find a loving relationship.

Aw, thanks. I did find a loving relationship, actually. It helped with the damage caused. It may not work out, but that's another story (and not his fault!). I still keep in touch with the guy mentioned above.

That's how I'm going to say it. I have a big list of things I will not/should not say like: you're scared by commitment; you have problems with emotional intimacy; I deserve better; I started a thread about you; royinpink gets it; etc.

Lol, I made the list!

I'm so impressed at your decision and how you plan to put it. Wish I'd had the foresight and courage to do that way back when. Oh well, that's how we learn, right?