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Having ASD as men means being lonley

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by OrdinaryCitizen, Nov 27, 2019.

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  1. OrdinaryCitizen

    OrdinaryCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I have heard many times on this forum women with ASD say about injustice they experience because of being women.

    I tell you how it feels having ASD as a guy, it way worse than any socio-economic injustice women complain about because at top of everything what matters more in life of human being is socialization, relationship with others and having close relationship with someone.

    I find myself in isolation all alone (even when used to live in center of large metro area).
    Not easy for guy with ASD (esp. one who does not look very attractive based on beauty standards) to find someone at all, for girl its matter of creating profile on dating site and she will get ton of guys chasing her regardless of look or any psychological conditions she has.

    There is difference in how women select partner from young age they want partner to entertain them and comfort them (its very selfish and biased) all for mere privilege of her being with that guy, women grow up with idea that they don't need to bring anything in relationship, guys got to run hoops around them trying to win her disposition.

    Guys with ASD are considered boring and wired even by women with ASD.

    For all all women who going to tell me "its not like this" if you older than 30 your opinion does not matter because with age (or aging) some women get wiser and their standards for partner also change, remember yourself at age of 18 did you felt same way as now, i bet not!

    For men having ASD is like a curse, cannot make friends, cannot be successful financially, cannot find a women, its like living in a vacuum.

    Women who dare to complain, try being a guy with ASD in this world and see how you going to like it...
     
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  2. Bolletje

    Bolletje Overly complicated potato V.I.P Member

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    If that’s your attitude in person too, it’s no wonder you’re having trouble finding someone. You come across as extremely bitter and angry and kind of misogynistic to me.

    Yes, I am a woman over 30, and I think my opinion does matter. Just because I’m 33 doesn’t mean I don’t remember what dating was like when I was younger. My standards for partners haven’t changed much over the years either. I like intelligent men with geeky interests and a dark sense of humor. I don’t need to be wined and dined, I don’t need to be taken care of, and I sure as hell don’t want to be treated like a princess. I just want to be treated as an equal.

    As for men with ASD not being able to make friends, have financial success, or finding a woman, well, that’s just not true. It’s perfectly possible. It might not be working out in your case, but that doesn’t mean it holds true for all men with ASD.

    Comparing your loneliness to the socioeconomic injustice women face on a daily basis just seems incredibly tone deaf to me. It is not comparable at all. You have the power to do something about your isolation, but you won’t fix it by complaining about how much easier women have it.

    As for women on dating sites being swarmed with men: yes, as a woman on a dating site you tend to get a lot of responses. However, that doesn’t mean that there’s viable candidates in there. The vast majority of messages a woman on a dating site receives are either requests for sex from people that haven’t bothered reading your profile, or are downright creepy. And if someone actually writes a thoughtful response, that doesn’t mean it’s automatically a match. If you’re willing to sleep with everyone that shows interest in you, then online dating as a woman might be considered easy, but actually finding a compatible person online has never happened for me, despite trying for years.

    I’ve been dating for 17 years now and I’ve faced a lot of rejection. But instead of moping around and being bitter I just made sure to improve my social skills and went back out there. Practice doesn’t always make perfect, but it sure as hell doesn’t hurt. I went from being an awkward girl who couldn’t make eye contact and who hardly spoke to being the occasional life of the party. Just by getting a job with emphasis on social skills and mingling with people socially on a daily basis.
     
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  3. Major Tom

    Major Tom Searching for ground control... V.I.P Member

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    Yea, it's hard... Suck it up and stop blaming people and maybe you won't be so lonely and hard-pressed..
     
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  4. OrdinaryCitizen

    OrdinaryCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Fine for women to do it and men should suck it up shut up, nice logic...

    Women privilege? o_O
     
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  5. unperson

    unperson Well-Known Member

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    chippy and sour too!
     
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  6. Bolletje

    Bolletje Overly complicated potato V.I.P Member

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    Complaining and blaming other people doesn’t work for women either if they’re trying to find a partner.
     
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  7. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

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    Well I'm 49 now and married. Between the ages of 15 and marrying aged 37 I spent about 4 years inbetween girlfriends and never "went without" during those times. I'm no looker either - just an average Joe. You can check out my videos if you want to be certain. Apart from the Santa Claus beard and a few wrinkles, nothing much has changed.
    I've never been a high flyer but I've stayed in full time work apart from an 18 month period of illness.
    What's different?
    I'm as autistic now as I ever was and life has had plenty of challenges. My health took a dip in my late 20s, I developed arthritis in my spine and have walked with a stick ever since, but still carried on working and meeting women. Of course I didn't bring my autism up - that was a need to know thing. One I know worked it out, others may have too. My wife is the only one I told from the start. I've always shown women the respect they deserve and treated them as my equals. I try to be kind and generous, conscientious and caring. I listen to their needs and wants and try to fulfill them to the best of my ability and they generally reciprocate.
    Being autistic is hard and creates barriers, arguably more so for women in many ways, but the only way to overcome them is to believe you can and just get on with it. Defeatism or believing you are worse off than others, especially if it spills into bitterness, will hold you back.
     
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  8. Iamnotarabot

    Iamnotarabot Well-Known Member

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    Please if you read this dont get triggered, I am trying to have a balanced point of view in the end.

    Well in all honesty, women has "social advantages" of being women , but also specific risks related to violence and abuse ( but overall statisticly men are more victim of violence than women , but not by relatives/coworker and not the same type of violence, sexual abuse is known to be the worst type of violence and psychological violence is as destructive as invisible)

    And also, in the coming generation they will get better wages and work than men(the only exception being probably engineering but this type of jobs will be soon externalized aswell and will recquire less and less people), it's obvious but the thing is the statistic are flawed by the fact that the older generations still create a big gap in favor of men.

    When I was in unniversity I tried to do a master in law, and the 2 years I was there, 80% of the student were women , its crazy how in the first years of law school the students are realy diverse, but as I progressed there I saw the students "pool" becoming mostly women and even the ethnicity diversity almost diseappered.(I live in a multicultiral area).
    I guess they are more suited to study than men in general.



    I am not bitter or whatever I this try to put things in perspective.
    My mother always told me, it doesnt matter how many people are around us, we will always be alone.

    So I guess she suffered from that aswell,but she get pretty quicky burned out by social situation, so suffering from isolation and being unable to have a social life are not "guy specific" hehe.

    I think women with asd suffer as much from isolation as we do, they just have a more likelihood of being solicited by guys, but, it doesnt mean it leads to any happy ending.


    Try to think about it in a different way, having no social ties is a form of freedom few people have.

    Pick and choose, do you prefer being a guy with asd that struggle to find a relationship?

    Or a woman with asd that can't just stop being solicited to the point it burns her out, and also a woman being targetet by abusive people, because people with asd have a hard time getting out of toxic relationship and women are often victim of this especially with asd.( my aunt commited suicide because of her husband and i'm almost sure she was on the spectrum)



    I'm fine being a lonely guy with asd, looking back at my issues with girls I know it was pretty much my fault anyway that it didnt work , or I had big red flags in front of me at the start ( and noticing them would have prevented me from any more emotionnal investement) and I ignored them because you know, autism xD

    Of course you are bitter, that make sence , but jumping into a very "political" explaination to rationnalize your problems won't solve anything, you are the only one able to do anything about your life, and people spreading political narratives don't care about you neither
     
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  9. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

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    It could very well be the case that the men who complain how much worse they have it than autistic women, are more severe cases of autism.

    I do see a spectrum of opinions on this topic. In general - and this is anecdotal, not scientific - those who are more severe, as judged by things like living independently from parents or holding any employment, are more fixed in their view that men have it worse than women.

    In any case, I could never be interested in a man with this perspective. It would be toxic to me.
     
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  10. Iamnotarabot

    Iamnotarabot Well-Known Member

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    Well more otfen women on the spectrum are not severe cases but I dont see someone severely autistic posting something like this on a forum , I mean.

    But I think you meant "autistic people with worse situations and other struggles" , I think you are not wrong but taking responsibility is still the only way to get anything done.

    (I live with my parents at almost 28 and never had a real job nor any relationship,)
     
  11. xudo

    xudo something and nothing

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    Probably true of some women, and some men too. However, not all women can be typecast as selfish, uncaring harlots purely out there looking for the D. As @Bolletje pointed out, maybe it's your view and seeming disdain of women that puts them off, rather than anything else.
     
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  12. OrdinaryCitizen

    OrdinaryCitizen Well-Known Member

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    How do you socialize?
     
  13. Streetwise

    Streetwise very cautious contributor V.I.P Member

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    Can you show me statistics for men being sufferers of violence and the source of the statistics,If you don’t know about it ,look up female genital mutilation ,this is one of the blessings (A bizarre mindset in my opinion )that the opening post thinks women have, where the woman has permanent urinary tract infections, suffers social stigma, suffers unbearable pain and not Everywoman ever has it corrected ,my source comes from Mercy ships.org
     
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  14. Iamnotarabot

    Iamnotarabot Well-Known Member

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    Violence against men - Wikipedia

    I didnt use a specific source, its just something i'v known for a while now, It's like asking the source that told you the earth was f..I mean round (I know its not exactly round lol) xD
    It depends on the country, it depends on the time period, it's too complexe to even try to give an answer based on a specific data anyway.
    It's like the common problem of modern day society, in order to say anything you need data , that's a paradox but thinking that data can back up anything(especially human behavior) is irrationnal, but this is important and helpfull I agree.



    Basically violence is a man thing and involve men in general, then you have other subtype of violence where women are more likely than man to be victim, but even sexual assault is something young boy can be victim of , anyway I am drifting too much , I just said this in the previous post to clarify the fact that I didnt have a specific bias against his point of view and all I want is to have a civil discussion ,but not mixing your own life with any "political" statement is better in order to just get things done.

    Well , being with my parents I can talk to them , it may help feeling less lonely, few times a year I see my family, and My few childhood friends stayed closed to where I live so we still see each other sometimes but I dont even realy know if we are friend anymore.

    Its true that the few times in my life I was actually alone my life went bad pretty fast lol, so I can understand total loneliness being corrosive to the mind.

    In all logic if you suffer from isolation it means you need more interraction than me because I spend 80% of my time in my room. Maybe I suffered too much from social exhaustion/ humiliation.

    Also I can never get anything from a social gathering that involves more than 10 people ( well 10 to 20 depending on the space available I guess), In parties all I do is hiding in a corner and eat /drink, but I come whenI come its because a friend invite me and I dont want to be rude( iv declined a lot of them).
    And sometimes they invite me in their home , we talk /play video games or do other casual stuff, it's fine.

    The "parties" students do, I could never enjoy or participate, the biggest one I was invited too, I had to leave because the noise at the entrance made me panick( the noise of people cheering and having fun outside, to mee it felt like a bunch of agressive monsters and I had to leave, I didnt even tried to go inside.) And at another one I had a crying meltdown.

    In all honesty if you followed my lifestyle you would have approximatively 0% of finding a relationship lol, I very rarely meet new people.


    But the thing is, I can never talk to anything I realy want to talk to to anyone, not even on this forum, just like my mother said in the end we are always alone deep inside. And that's ok.
     
  15. Tom

    Tom Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Psychology really isn't my thing. While I like putting Play Doh in the fun factory, not so much brains. But I do think they (shrinks) are are onto something at times and would venture to guess your attitude involves some defense mechanism. It seems to usually involve distorting perception to make something easier or less painful to yourself. While a few are not considered bad, such as distraction, most are considered unhealthy and likely to make things worse in the long run.

    play.jpg
     
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  16. Dadwith2Autisticsons

    Dadwith2Autisticsons Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I understand and appreciate your point of view, even if others do not or cannot admit your right to express the things you are saying which I feel is rational in what you say, and is largely if not totally accurate. You expressed your feelings well, just as others express their feelings, in the ways they know best too. I found absolutely no problem with what you said, as I relate, and I feel bad for your situation. Sorry you are going through this.

    Before I show support for your position though, I need to say both men and women have it equally hard in many different ways, so the purpose of this post is not to be anti-women, as I would not want to be one as it could be difficult trying to have either family and feel pressure to work these days. Having said that though, you have a right to address a certain topic, and frustration as well, and truths as you see it, as you experienced that, and so others have no right to say otherwise, as they are talking from their positions. The op is talking about the relationship issue, and related positions.

    I am a very open minded person, and I analyze everything, and I now will not shy away from some direct truth, even if controversial, or offensive, if I feel some fiction again is happening, or truths hidden, or if I feel support for the other side must occur to create more balance, or to make the real truth somewhere in between. Yes, again, it is true that women have it hard in other ways, with often more worries of sexual abuse or extreme violence against them, or more feeling they have to look a certain way to get more attention.

    But, yes, with regards to the issues you address, I feel women may have an easier time getting into relationships, and men generally often must be seen as successful, confident, or with less flaws or needs, to get a variety of interest from others for dating, much less a relationship. To discount that obvious truth, is fiction. To minimize that true feeling of the poster, or deny his right to express his hurt and perceived truths too, will not solve anything, but make matters worse, and as what he says is largely correct.

    And yes, from my experiences too, and those I know well, I feel it may seem to men, that women can either be more themselves, be more lacking in some big way, or be unemployed even, yet they will have an easier time dating, getting married, than a guy with a condition who is not perceived as working, strong, confident or successful. I have seen more such guy persons alone than women, and it is not just because the guy had a bad attitude, but because the woman wanted more than the guy wanted. They of course would not admit that. It is easier to fault the guy.

    Society does not like admitting this, but women are just as apt to use or abuse men in direct and indirect critical, emotionally abusive, other sexual, and physical abusive ways than men are, but they are just minimized, hidden or tolerated more. All these abuses against men and others are are accepted more in society, and minimized, and we can see why, in this thread, from seeing the replies. We in reality do not want a society in which men express all points of view. We do not want them expressing pain, or how they feel wronged. Women are entitled to expressing in all ways. Not men. They must hide what they think and feel. So, when that frustration from men occurs, we must minimize that, hide that, while women are allowed to not only express that daily, but to picket and march. Supporting men’s positions such as stated by the op, is more helping matters. I feel his remarks were fine!

    I have seen equally nice men and women in this forum, with no preference for either, but unfortunately I have seen also posts from women stereotyping against men or Aspie men that were tolerated, and with support or no critiques to those posters, but when some guys posted of anything that was unfair or wrong from the woman gender, defense and attack messages went up against that guy. I and other guys were and are apparently trained by society for guys to be silenced for abuse, wrongs committed against us, and for such unfair situations, but not any more. I do not fear critiques or rejection anymore.

    Men, and women, if you are being mistreated or abused, speak up. And if either gender feels the other is being superficial or unempathetic by not considering you as a partner because of looks, no job, less self esteem, or because you are not tall, dark and handsome, or beautiful, then of course you can be upset, just as women can be upset if they feel rejected or not appreciated because of other reasons. Generalizations occur every day, if there are societal patterns. That is natural. Sometimes those truths need to be heard for learning and real changes to occur. Until both genders can admit their own faults, and see equal wrongness, it is fair for others to find those faults in those others and call attention to it.

    The reason my post might here might seem slanted, is because I am replying to the posters points. There will be other posts I would slant towards a woman’s position, if the topic was such I related more to that side. But, in this case, regardless how many likes I, the op, and ones who relate, we know the truth in our eyes, as we have experienced that, and are smart enough to see that. I was alone for twenty years, despite much efforts at dating. It was not until I became more confident, less shy, more stronger, and hid my real feelings or frustrations or learned to focus on the positives instead, that did women give me more chance. That is unfortunately the double standard, with regards to dating and relationships. That is not a myth. And women are still more allowed to show anger, sadness, and stay at home, and be imperfect when dating. To suggest or say otherwise is absurd. Sometimes the truth stings, but it is needed in life. I am telling that more here.

    Regarding anyone asking for statistics of men versus women for violence and abuse, statistics cannot be counted for hidden abuses, minimized abuses, and not prosecuted abuses. Women and law enforcement will not call constant nagging as criticism and abuse. Women and police will not call exposing themselves to children and others as abuse. Women and police will not call controlling people, through manipulation or intimidation as abuse. Women will not call smoking or drinking when they are pregnant as abuse, etc. Women will not call a slap, push, or punch to a man as abusive, even if that other did not resort to a physical action. Men though need to be accountable for all abuses too, and the court system should not minimize abuse against women either. So, sorry, the statistics theory is an attempt to hide the equal abuses against men and boys too. But, we will see often the stories of the blond and pretty woman being abused. Rare, will attention be focused on abuses against boys and men, and its because society does not care. They say boys and men must be strong regardless. Look at talk show members laugh when such abuses against men occur. Is that really funny? Well, in the end society pays partly for those suppressed male real emotions, and minimizing men’s pain and those truths. Fiction and double standards will hurt society more than it helps. I want equality for all, men and women, but until abuse against men is not accepted and punished, and until men can feel more comfort in sharing all feelings, more of the same problems will occur.

    Unfortunately, society is not going to do anything about it soon. They do not care about that unfairness, at times against men, and other times against women. But, for relationships topic you talked about. You are right. So, often that means we must adjust somehow, or else we will be alone. But, telling people to get over being lonely, or get over the problems getting into a relationship, and change. That is not how ASD works. Some things can be changed; some cannot. It’s not fair, but it is what it is.
     
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  17. Aspychata

    Aspychata My Art Work

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    I think there are many silent victims out there. We are the ones that can't prove what happened to us, and because we are female, our abuse is immedately discounted. I was emotionally and psychologically abused, and my abuser turned to me and said in the car :" go ahead, go to the police, they won't believe you". 15 years and l walked away. So there are many female stories that are never told. I talk to countless older females who have no desire to remarry. So to the author, some woman choose not to meet men. And woman work because we were tired of being used just to pop one out and be a domestic slave for our lifetime only to be kicked to curb with zero to fall back on.

    Woman are no longer groomed to get married or even to date. There are way less marriages, and stats show younger people engage less in proclivities so teenage pregnancies have dropped. I am taking your frustration and showing you a change in thinking as illustrated by more woman speaking up about sexual harrassement, which many woman in the past would never say anything. There is a giant shift in how woman view men, it's taking time for men to catch up and see this fundamental change of the female belief system. l talk to a lot of younger females and most of them chose not to date because they feel work is their priority.
     
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  18. OrdinaryCitizen

    OrdinaryCitizen Well-Known Member

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    If you think critically, this has nothing to do with you personally, nor any women in US has undergone this procedure, it has something to do with traditions/beliefs in certain African tribes and i am sure even women (mothers of this girls) participate in this because its part of their belief system.

    As a intellectual human being i know you are from talking to you in the past i am sure you understand that feminism getting good funding from government and its in their interest to portray women as victim and blow up the statistics for domestic violence in order to get more funding, its capitalism.

    P.S. Fact most boys in US do get circularized at birth... yes its not same, however it happens and now always done properly.
     
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  19. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

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    To me it's jarring to go from this, which I agree with, to talking about romantic relationships. Conflating our need for socialization and intimate relationships with romance is just going to make it more difficult to find and less stable when it is found. I derive much of my happiness from my relationships with others, none of which includes a sexual or romantic partner.
     
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  20. OrdinaryCitizen

    OrdinaryCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I agree there is shift how women view their social role, they put career ahead of marriage, however they still are human beings with same needs as before and they do date guys, problem they date man that they find confident & fun. Not many ASD guys fit that position.

    How do you get by without romantic relationships and sex?
     
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