Frustrated And Angry

[Graelwyn]

I went to a Bingo night with the meetup group I have been going out to things with for 6 weeks now. It has been hard work, but I was hoping I was starting to integrate.

Tonight, afterwards, everyone stood chatting in groups and I stood there hoping someone might notice me and include me or that there might be an opening but no one even seemed to see me there. It was as if I was invisible.

I am now left feeling really angry at myself for being unable to socialise the way they can, and I feel defective and useless, to be honest.
I simply left and got the bus home, as no one could give me a lift (it is quite late at night) and cried the whole way home as well as battling feelings of utter hopelessness and worthlessness.

I don't understand how they could all just chat and ignore a member of their group who was standing there, wanting to join in. It has made me realise why I have kept myself isolated for the best part of 10 years. It just ends up causing me pain.

 

[The Penguin]

I find this is a common thing happens to me most of the time. It can be very hard.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I can completely relate. I felt the same way at church yesterday and spent the rest of the day battling a deep mood swing. Not fun.

However, that said...I think a lot of people won't try to draw sideliners into a conversation because they figure that if you want to be a part of the conversation, you'll walk up and join in. They'll let you choose when to join because you might be uncomfortable overall and not be ready to talk with anyone quite yet.

It's no one else's responsibility to meet my social needs. It's mine. That doesn't mean I'm good at it or even anywhere close to adequate. But that still doesn't transfer responsibility to anyone else. They can't read my mind, so it's unfair to hold them responsible for what I want from them if I haven't communicated my thoughts with them. And even then, they're not obligated to compensate for my weaknesses...the responsibility for growth is still upon me.

This has been a really, really difficult and painful lesson for me to learn, so please don't hear any amount of condemnation or criticism from me. I've "seen" this insight for a long time, and still not been able to capitalize on it. But at least I can recognize who I need to change: me, not them.

 

[Graelwyn]

I can completely relate. I felt the same way at church yesterday and spent the rest of the day battling a deep mood swing. Not fun.

However, that said...I think a lot of people won't try to draw sideliners into a conversation because they figure that if you want to be a part of the conversation, you'll walk up and join in. They'll let you choose when to join because you might be uncomfortable overall and not be ready to talk with anyone quite yet.

It's no one else's responsibility to meet my social needs. It's mine. That doesn't mean I'm good at it or even anywhere close to adequate. But that still doesn't transfer responsibility to anyone else.

This has been a really, really difficult and painful lesson for me to learn, so please don't hear any amount of condemnation or criticism from me. I've "seen" this insight for a long time, and still not been able to capitalize on it. But at least I can recognize who I need to change: me, not them.

I don't see how you can join in when they are sort of gathered in a small group, already engaged talking about something that is familiar to them, or that maybe they have talked about elsewhere. It was as if they already had known each other for years or something even though they have not. I did not expect them to make extra effort but there was not even a way to join in. And they do know I am on the spectrum so already know it is quite difficult to have that on top of being fairly new to the group.

I stood close and tried to listen but it was honestly as if I was invisible. Quite a few of them have been to 3 or 4 events with me, including a concert quite recently so it is not as if I was a total newcomer.

 

[The Penguin]

DogwoodTree you pretty much summarized what I wanted to say. For me since I'm starting a business, if I don't talk to people, I get no sales. So I pressure myself to get out of my comfort zone so I can eat and pay my bills

 

[DogwoodTree]

I don't see how you can join in when they are sort of gathered in a small group, already engaged talking about something that is familiar to them, or that maybe they have talked about elsewhere. It was as if they already had known each other for years or something even though they have not. I did not expect them to make extra effort but there was not even a way to join in. And they do know I am on the spectrum so already know it is quite difficult to have that on top of being fairly new to the group.

I stood close and tried to listen but it was honestly as if I was invisible. Quite a few of them have been to 3 or 4 events with me, including a concert quite recently so it is not as if I was a total newcomer.

I understand. I really do. I experienced pretty much this exact scenario yesterday: Groups of people standing around, people I would enjoy talking with, and I couldn't bring myself to approach them. They've known each other for years, and I've only been in this church for a couple of years. Some of them even know intimate details about my background. But still...the responsibility to determine the approachability of a group and to take that step was still on me, not on them to rope me in.

I don't know how it is for you, but I get this sense of an impenetrable fortress around groups like that, that it's just too darn scary to approach them, feeling like an outsider. But if they're just standing around talking, and not intensely focused and standing tightly together, most likely the group is open for others to join.

There are times when I have gritted my teeth and made myself approach them, and almost invariably, they welcome me into the conversation (meaning, they don't glare at me like I don't belong there) when I choose to participate and contribute. But I had to walk up to the group, listen to the conversation to know what they were talking about, and start saying something to contribute.

I've watched this pattern with other people, too, and it works. I know that when I'm actually one of the people in a group, I love seeing someone else walk up and join us because I appreciate the fact that they want to contribute, too. But I don't necessarily say anything to them (because I don't want to scare them off, lol).

The thing is, I'm can't come in expecting to be a celebrity just for walking up to them. It might be a huge victory for me to have done that, but no one else is aware of it, and I have to be careful not to "fault" them for not recognizing what a special accomplishment it is that I've been able to join the conversation. So that's where I tend to get discouraged when I do approach the group. That, or I continue to feel like an outsider even as I participate in the conversation. The abyss between me and everyone else is just very intimidating. But I have to constantly remind myself--the problem is within me, not with them. That helps me not be so angry at them. And it helps me focus my efforts where I actually have a chance at creating change...I hope. I'm really, really not there yet. But I do know to focus my energy on fixing me, not on blaming them.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

If you really like Bingo night, don't let what happened stop you. I'd go a few more times. Maybe they are just testing you to see if you are going to keep coming and would then be worth getting to know more. If it keeps happening, then it's not just a coincidence and you should decide if you would like to just go for the Bingo part of it then leave. Can you bring someone you know with you to perhaps open conversation with the others?

People are strange when it comes to groups and letting newcomers in. I've went through that too. I try to approach a group that isn't so "tightly circled". The closer they are standing to each other it means they don't want newcomers intruding. It might help to get to know people by talking to them during the bingo game - whoever sits next to you.

 

[The Penguin]

If you really like Bingo night, don't let what happened stop you. I'd go a few more times. Maybe they are just testing you to see if you are going to keep coming and would then be worth getting to know more. If it keeps happening, then it's not just a coincidence and you should decide if you would like to just go for the Bingo part of it then leave.

The nurse is dead on. I go to the movies alone many times. I enjoy myself. It can be lonely sometimes, but when I enjoy the movie, I don't think about being alone, I think about the fun time I'm having watching the movie.

For my camping trips, my co workers thought I was crazy camping alone. But I do enjoy myself. The ranger told me many people camp alone. I learned if I wait on someone to do things in life, I might never have a chance to have fun. Keep enjoying your self even if it haves to be alone and maybe in time you meet people you feel more comfortable with.

 

[Graelwyn]

I understand. I really do. I experienced pretty much this exact scenario yesterday: Groups of people standing around, people I would enjoy talking with, and I couldn't bring myself to approach them. They've known each other for years, and I've only been in this church for a couple of years. Some of them even know intimate details about my background. But still...the responsibility to determine the approachability of a group and to take that step was still on me, not on them to rope me in.

I don't know how it is for you, but I get this sense of an impenetrable fortress around groups like that, that it's just too darn scary to approach them, feeling like an outsider. But if they're just standing around talking, and not intensely focused and standing tightly together, most likely the group is open for others to join.

There are times when I have gritted my teeth and made myself approach them, and almost invariably, they welcome me into the conversation (meaning, they don't glare at me like I don't belong there) when I choose to participate and contribute. But I had to walk up to the group, listen to the conversation to know what they were talking about, and start saying something to contribute.

I've watched this pattern with other people, too, and it works. I know that when I'm actually one of the people in a group, I love seeing someone else walk up and join us because I appreciate the fact that they want to contribute, too. But I don't necessarily say anything to them (because I don't want to scare them off, lol).

The thing is, I'm can't come in expecting to be a celebrity just for walking up to them. It might be a huge victory for me to have done that, but no one else is aware of it, and I have to be careful not to "fault" them for not recognizing what a special accomplishment it is that I've been able to join the conversation. So that's where I tend to get discouraged when I do approach the group. That, or I continue to feel like an outsider even as I participate in the conversation. The abyss between me and everyone else is just very intimidating. But I have to constantly remind myself--the problem is within me, not with them. That helps me not be so angry at them. And it helps me focus my efforts where I actually have a chance at creating change...I hope. I'm really, really not there yet. But I do know to focus my energy on fixing me, not on blaming them.

Yes, I feel exactly as you describe, in terms of the impenetrable fortress, but my anger is never directed at the others... I always rage at myself instead, for being defective and abnormal enough that I cannot fit in with others. I always blame myself, but in a very negative, sometimes self harming way.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

The nurse is dead on. I go to the movies alone many times. I enjoy myself. It can be lonely sometimes, but when I enjoy the movie, I don't think about being alone, I think about the fun time I'm having watching the movie.

For my camping trips, my co workers thought I was crazy camping alone. But I do enjoy myself. The ranger told me many people camp alone. I learned if I wait on someone to do things in life, I might never have a chance to have fun. Keep enjoying your self even if it haves to be alone and maybe in time you meet people you feel more comfortable with.

I thought camping alone is an Aspie's dream. All that time by yourself with no people around, not much noise and being one with nature. Am I wrong?

 

[The Penguin]

I say the most important thing is be yourself. Don't change your self for someone. It can make life a lot easier and within time you may find someone take you as is. I think it will just take time for you to find someone you feel more comfortable around with. But first is to start outside your comfort zone in baby steps.

 

[The Penguin]

I thought camping alone is an Aspie's dream. All that time by yourself with no people around, not much noise and being one with nature. Am I wrong?

It is a dream. To date I done 4 camping trips alone. 3 last year and 1 this year. The reason I only done one trip this year because I lost my job. But next year I want to aim for 5 trips. I love doing things outside the norm too. For example, I cooked pizza while camping. Next trip I want to cook lasagna.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Yes, I feel exactly as you describe, in terms of the impenetrable fortress, but my anger is never directed at the others... I always rage at myself instead, for being defective and abnormal enough that I cannot fit in with others. I always blame myself, but in a very negative, sometimes self harming way.

Unfortunately, that's another area I've not yet solved for myself. I know, intellectually, that beating myself up is counter-productive and harmful. But it doesn't always stop me from crashing when those things happen. Lately, I've started dreading times with other people because it's just so incredibly painful. Yesterday was a perfect example...I started dreading church (even though I like most aspects of church and I like the people there) a couple of days before the weekend even got there. I was on the verge of tears the whole time I was there, aching so deeply just under the surface and unable to tell anyone. And I bottomed out later in the day when I read something on Facebook from someone I respect who said that when you love Jesus, that will show by your ability to open your heart to other people and have close relationships with them. Oh man, did I feel like such a revolting, disgusting failure at everything I've ever cared about.

All I can say is, I know from experience that hurting myself doesn't accomplish anything. So do I want to get better, or do I want to do what I feel like doing? Getting better will take discipline, a lot of it, in making choices that are more productive. Doesn't mean I can feasibly make all the right choices right now, but I have to start somewhere. Make one right choice. Take one more step. It won't solve all the problems, but it will move me in the right direction.

In my case, I think that "one more step" at this time is to tell some friends at church about my dx so at least I won't beat myself up for hurting their feelings when I can't overcome my fears in those situations. At least they will know that I don't intend to be rude or snooty or to ignore them.

I don't know what the next step is for you. But maybe it will help to find one small thing you can do that moves you in the right direction? Even if it's as simple as saying, "I will no longer blame myself for being autistic. When I can't do what others do because of my autism, I will recognize and make the acknowledgement that it is not my fault."

 

[Graelwyn]

I say the most important thing is be yourself. Don't change your self for someone. It can make life a lot easier and within time you may find someone take you as is. I think it will just take time for you to find someone you feel more comfortable around with. But first is to start outside your comfort zone in baby steps.

Yes, I did throw myself into the deep end after 10 years of little to no socialising at all, starting myself off with a new members meeting of 53 people with this group, and weekly and bi weekly events since then. I tend to underestimate the impact on me, of all the added stimulation, noise etc.

 

[The Penguin]

Yes, I did throw myself into the deep end after 10 years of little to no socialising at all, starting myself off with a new members meeting of 53 people with this group, and weekly and bi weekly events since then. I tend to underestimate the impact on me, of all the added stimulation, noise etc.

I find noisy environments haves a huge impact on me. I try my best to avoid it but sometimes it not possible such as business networking events. I say for loud settings is maybe set a limit. Maybe 1 to 2 hours when it is possible.

 

[Graelwyn]

Unfortunately, that's another area I've not yet solved for myself. I know, intellectually, that beating myself up is counter-productive and harmful. But it doesn't always stop me from crashing when those things happen. Lately, I've started dreading times with other people because it's just so incredibly painful. Yesterday was a perfect example...I started dreading church (even though I like most aspects of church and I like the people there) a couple of days before the weekend even got there. I was on the verge of tears the whole time I was there, aching so deeply just under the surface and unable to tell anyone. And I bottomed out later in the day when I read something on Facebook from someone I respect who said that when you love Jesus, that will show by your ability to open your heart to other people and have close relationships with them. Oh man, did I feel like such a revolting, disgusting failure at everything I've ever cared about.

All I can say is, I know from experience that hurting myself doesn't accomplish anything. So do I want to get better, or do I want to do what I feel like doing? Getting better will take discipline, a lot of it, in making choices that are more productive. Doesn't mean I can feasibly make all the right choices right now, but I have to start somewhere. Make one right choice. Take one more step. It won't solve all the problems, but it will move me in the right direction.

In my case, I think that "one more step" at this time is to tell some friends at church about my dx so at least I won't beat myself up for hurting their feelings when I can't overcome my fears in those situations. At least they will know that I don't intend to be rude or snooty or to ignore them.

I don't know what the next step is for you. But maybe it will help to find one small thing you can do that moves you in the right direction? Even if it's as simple as saying, "I will no longer blame myself for being autistic. When I can't do what others do because of my autism, I will recognize and make the acknowledgement that it is not my fault."

I relate so much to what you say in your first paragraph. That is exactly how I feel.
I think the difficulty is that knowing the reason for my difficulties, is a recent thing. I only started suspecting I had Aspergers a few years ago, and only got my official DX just over a week ago, so I am used to being blamed by others for my differences, and have adapted that myself as well it seems. It is quite deeply engrained.

The negative mind can be so very difficult to overcome. I think I tend to believe that I deserve to be punished for not being this, not being that, not being able to be 'normal', hence the hurting myself, though it also sometimes is a reaction to blind anger and frustration.

On the plus side, those from the group, who are on my facebook, have responded to a post I made shortly after I fled the venue, and have been very kind and encouraging, in spite of the negative nature of my post in terms of my feelings about myself. I honestly had expected them to rapidly delete me for being so miserable and angry.

I think my next step is to stop pushing myself so hard to fit in and be like everyone else.
That is a huge pressure.

 

[Cali Cat]

... Tonight, afterwards, everyone stood chatting in groups and I stood there hoping someone might notice me and include me or that there might be an opening but no one even seemed to see me there. It was as if I was invisible ...

... I don't understand how they could all just chat and ignore a member of their group who was standing there, wanting to join in ...

I can't tell you how many times this happens to me ... all my freakin life. Sometimes I think I really am invisible. I mean, what's the deal? Is there some cue I'm missing? Some "vibe" I'm giving off? I would think that a group of considerate people would notice a person on the sideline patiently waiting for a signal to join them, dontcha think? I could say more on this topic, but it would turn into a rant.

 

[Judge]

I can relate to this. After attending a hobby group for the last four years I have decided to give it up. I could go a whole two-hour session and never say a word. I always had to go up and physically stand with a group of people and say something before they'd really recognize I was there.

I just came to the conclusion I wasn't getting anything out of this. Made lots of acquaintances, no friends. I found myself leaving earlier and earlier each monthly meeting. Too much noise and no sense of fulfillment. It's ok to throw yourself into the deep end, but only if there's a payoff. If there's no payoff you cut your losses and leave.

But I'm not beating myself up over this and neither should you, Graelwyn. In group situations sometimes the chemistry just isn't there...and it doesn't mean it's our fault.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I relate so much to what you say in your first paragraph. That is exactly how I feel.
I think the difficulty is that knowing the reason for my difficulties, is a recent thing. I only started suspecting I had Aspergers a few years ago, and only got my official DX just over a week ago, so I am used to being blamed by others for my differences, and have adapted that myself as well it seems. It is quite deeply engrained.

The negative mind can be so very difficult to overcome. I think I tend to believe that I deserve to be punished for not being this, not being that, not being able to be 'normal', hence the hurting myself, though it also sometimes is a reaction to blind anger and frustration.

I only found out about my dx about 3 months ago. I had kinda suspected...in the back of my mind...for years. But I didn't know anything beyond the stereotypical "Rain Man" persona, so didn't put the pieces together until just recently. And even now I'm only self-dx'd. At 41, not sure there's any point in getting an official dx.

And yes, I can completely relate to being blamed by others (and myself) for being different. I still haven't told many people. My family tends to be particularly critical of anyone who can't put on exactly the right "face" in relationships. I've been walking on eggshells with them all my life, and only just recently started understanding why, and realizing I have a choice...that I can choose to be myself anyway, whether they like it or not.

And yes, I hear what you're saying about deserving to be punished for not being good enough...I feel that way especially in my marriage and with my kids. Sometimes I tell myself they would be better off without me. But I know where that road leads, and I choose not to go there. And then yes, there are times when it's just pure anger and frustration...nothing else left, no room for anything else. It's so very painful. And yet, when I try to explain it to people, I can't find the words for it, and no one else really understands except here.

I think my next step is to stop pushing myself so hard to fit in and be like everyone else.
That is a huge pressure.

That's what I've been trying to focus on. I realized I had been trying to make a "trip across the country" with a "trip to the next town" mentality. This is not going to be a quick or easy process. It's going to take a long time with an awful lot of hard work, and a lot of painful changes and experiences and failures along the way.

I'm not like everyone else. Never will be. It sucks. But that's the way it is. It's not something I did wrong...actually, coming to this realization and understanding of myself was very much the right thing and took a lot of courage. So there's room to have compassion on myself, to give myself some grace, and room for messing up and dealing with this stuff.

So...take your next step--sounds like a great one. And give yourself time to do it well, because it won't happen overnight.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I went to a Bingo night with the meetup group I have been going out to things with for 6 weeks now. It has been hard work, but I was hoping I was starting to integrate.

Tonight, afterwards, everyone stood chatting in groups and I stood there hoping someone might notice me and include me or that there might be an opening but no one even seemed to see me there. It was as if I was invisible.

I am now left feeling really angry at myself for being unable to socialise the way they can, and I feel defective and useless, to be honest.
I simply left and got the bus home, as no one could give me a lift (it is quite late at night) and cried the whole way home as well as battling feelings of utter hopelessness and worthlessness.

I don't understand how they could all just chat and ignore a member of their group who was standing there, wanting to join in. It has made me realise why I have kept myself isolated for the best part of 10 years. It just ends up causing me pain.

Happens to me every time I go to a similar event.
It's ironic, because if I go someplace where I hope to be alone, like to a church, where I just want to pray, people will sometimes come and talk to me. But if I go to a social event, an event where I obviously want to socialize-because otherwise why would I even have come-it is as you described.
I can't figure out if I actually hate socializing, or if I just think I hate it, and the reason I think that is because of such experiences.