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I have always been a very independently-minded person, who had their own (alternative) opinions and did their own thing. I was never worried about what people thought of my appearance

Is this why my bf refuses to listen to the fact that I hate it when he doesn't shave his hairy neck? LOL I tell him he looks homeless. It's kind of a running joke. Of course, he responds in a logical, solution-oriented manner- that he can't see back there and I can shave it if it bothers me.

It seems there is a general theme of people here not inherently caring what people think of them except when there are consequences to peoples' impressions. Given your independent nature, I would bet you see most NT's as "sheep". My bf does. I'll own it. I'm a sheep to an extent.
 
I care an awful lot what people think of me. And people keep telling me not to be so bothered because this, that or the other group doesn't like me, because surely I know better than them what I'm like?

And the problem is that, er, I really don't, actually! I am a terrible judge of my own character. I can imagine myself being the best person alive. I can imagine myself being the worst person alive. As near as I can tell, the evidence fits both estimations of me equally well. I need an outside perspective to tell me who I am. And that means it hurts terribly when people think ill of me and see me as a bad person, because as far as I know, they're perfectly right.

Oh wow. That's an interesting take. I'm not sure how old you are, so this may be a function of age and experience- getting to know yourself. Certainly, you must know whether or not your intentions are the "best" or the "worst". I think knowing our true intentions is the key to knowing our character, don't you think?
 
Your post honestly makes me believe that so called NTs are pretty much the same as all of us so called Autistics. you truly are the same we. I see no difference here.

Except an ability to express it?

Maybe it's that simple. I can't say because I have no idea how it feels to think and perceive the world with that brain wiring!
 
Maybe it's that simple. I can't say because I have no idea how it feels to think and perceive the world with that brain wiring!

Or perhaps it's not an NT/austistic thing Maybe it's just a human thing and we all experience it differently, some more pronounced than others. Your comment about expression- you may have a thing there!
 
I can't help but notice that you do exactly the same thing that most people do, including people on the spectrum -- generalizing from yourself to everyone. From "I" to "we." People are individuals. Not everyone has the same responses to social norms. Some resist pressures to conform; some don't. And it doesn't matter whether you're NT or not. I see plenty of threads here about wanting to fit in, so that isn't exclusively an NT thing.

Yes, and forgive me for generalizing. I'll try to be more sensitive to that. I shouldn't make assumptions because I can only really speak for myself.

My initial reason for pondering this theme is that my bf doesn't seem to care much about what others think, where I am ultra sensitive to it. While we are all human beings and differ in many aspects, I wanted to gain insight into whether or not this difference could be related to our different brain wiring.

I'm not able to get much out of him (though he's recently been sharing more with me in a way I think I understand). Our communication is often me trying to put together a puzzle that is missing pieces. Talking to people on here give me good insights and ideas on how to approach things.
 
Oh yeah, I love stuff like that. I go to anime/gaming conventions, where everyone just wears whatever loopy costume they want. You can really be yourself at a place like that. Or be someone else, it's up to you. And it doesnt matter how odd it is. I look kinda like a nun in a miniskirt when in my usual costume (and I'm male). And that's pretty "normal" compared to some of the wacky stuff you see walking around.

Better yet, people act without the whole "masking" thing. They dont have to act a certain way to please the "normal" ones around them. They can act as bloody bizarre as they want. Or they can just ignore the usual "expected" ways of acting. In vendor halls I've seen big super-masculine guys get super excited over finding a booth full of cute plushie dolls. Granted, most anime fans have at least a couple of those, but still. People can really be themselves at those events. It's so refreshing. Though I myself tend not to act any different... my usual Garfield-ish fountain of acerbic sarcasm *is* me being myself.

The worst part though is going from that wonderful place, back to the "normal" world after the end of the convention. I'm usually in a bloody awful mood for the entire following week.

The minute I read your comment about "normal", I thought "she would have loved that place". I hadn't planned on going there and wasn't dressed for dancing, but I felt completely accepted and no one could have given a crap I was wearing shorts and tennis shoes! It was very freeing- better than the usual meat market where you know everyone is sizing you up. Ugh. In fact, I'm thinking of dragging my bf there tonight.

The worst part though is going from that wonderful place, back to the "normal" world after the end of the convention. I'm usually in a bloody awful mood for the entire following week

Yeah, I bet that sucks. Back to reality! Must be a shock. That's why I think it's essential for people to find their "kind", their tribe, or whatever. Everyone needs somewhere to fit in.
 
Humans are social animals and it would make sense that everyone would be concerned with what others think of them. As children, we learn how to be social. It's a process and there are cultural rules that we learn. Keeping in mind that bullies have some kind of radar to identify kids who are easily picked on, social rejection becomes normal to a kid with ASD. We're not sure what we are doing wrong, but we see and feel the rejection and harassment nonetheless. I think that over time, you stop caring about other people's attitudes about you. It's like studying very hard for a test, but no matter how much you study, you're not going to get a grade higher than a "C", or maybe a "B-" if you have some kind of unusual, entertaining quality. Sources of rejection are unclear to us, so even if you know what's wrong, changing it is nearly impossible because it doesn't come naturally. I think this might be where we learn how to mask or change our demeanor to avoid abuse.

The idea of social exclusion is many-faceted. People on the spectrum understand the exclusion, rejection, mocking, and general abuse, but we ignore some of the other reasons why groups reject others. When choosing teams for recreational sports, nobody wants the fat kid. Nobody wants to play with someone who can't catch a ball or doesn't know the rules of the game. Nobody wants the kid who doesn't care if he/she wins or loses. Then, you have the group of fiends who always get chosen first, then capability, then the lesser of two leftover evils. The stronger, more powerful will always pick on those of lesser capability. Call it ego, call it control, call it tribalism, but in the end it is those individuals who don't "fit in" according to the majority selection standards that get left behind. The same is true for party invitations. Kids who appear to be dull or depressed don't get invited to house parties. These majority kids, who see themselves as the "cool" kids, don't want to be friendly with a "dweeb". They might lose their standing in the "cool" kids hierarchy.

I think we might be able to examine any of the expressions associated with making the best of what you have. "make lemonade from lemons","when God closes a door he opens a window". We explore alternatives to being accepted by the majority cool kids. As time passes, you stop trying to fit in on the levels expected by the cool kids. You simply know that you don't belong. This becomes your reality and you make the most of it. It can be a very hard time because ASD kids don't know how to deal with constant rejection and harassment. You have no choice but accept that these majority cool kids don't like you. There is nothing you can do about it, so you realize that clinging to their world is fruitless. You end up losing interest in them, and you don't care at all about their opinions of you. I think that this is where our difficulties in socializing and our sense of frustration and anxiety become cemented into our mentality. We already know we are odd and different. Now we have proof of it. The kids we try to emulate don't want us around. We believe we are inferior.

Even as adults, some people put a lot of effort into sustaining their reputation as one of the cool people. If you are on the spectrum, I believe you put less emphasis on what people think and you become less concerned with reputation. You've grown accustomed to being ignored, so why would you concern yourself with opinions? The social lives of people with ASD span a wide range of feelings about the role of other people in their lives. Some have lots of friends. Others have none. Those who have none can't grasp what might be wrong. We forget that trying to fit in with "everyone", the majority proved a failure. Those of us who have managed to gain friends know that you don't become friends with everyone you meet. It's a very unique set of circumstances that results in real friendship, especially as an adult. If you are still carrying around your adolescent angst, people will become tired of you. A social reputation is of no importance any more. You become an individual who is still expected to behave properly and have some redeeming quality to offer the world. I stopped caring about others' opinions of me a long time ago. It might be my age, but I have found my value and I am confident in my views of the world. In essence, I have to manage my own validation. I didn't get it from the cool kids, so I had to figure it out on my own. I laugh when I see yesterday's cool kids getting arrested for bank fraud, bribery, and theft. Do I really care what they think of me?

I had started writing a reply and Explorer froze. Urgh!

Anyhow, everything you wrote makes total sense. I appreciate your response. :) It made me think of a great book called The Four Agreements. It talks about how humans are domesticated from a young age to work for the reward and avoid the punishment (these being social acceptance, basically). It talks about how people end up sacrificing their true selves in order to get rewarded and avoid punishment.
 
Well, I'm also a NT in the sense that I don't have autism.

Interestingly, I've taken those tests before that you have in your signature, and scored significantly higher. Usually I get 30 for the AQ, and 110-125 for RAADS-R. Personally, I seem to have a higher amount of traits than what you might expect, but not to the point where it's an issue.

Anyway, I'll get back to the main topic. When I was younger, I was concerned with fitting in to a certain degree. However, I'll admit that I've always been in a world of my own. In the present, I don't think that I actively try to fit social norms, but I don't try to fight against them either.

There are times where I mess up. I'll say something awkward, freeze up, or misunderstand a sarcastic remark. However, whilst I might kick myself a little for doing so I don't feel ashamed about it. Most of the time I laugh at myself. Sometimes when writing characters in my fictional stories, I'll draw from my experiences and have them make the same mistakes as I did.

I tend to find that if I know someone closely, then I'm more likely to care about what they think. Especially if they look up to me as a mentor, or just act happier when I'm around.

However, due to my experiences I do have a somewhat distant streak to my personality. I am aware that friendships are often fleeting, and there may be times where a long lasting friendship can end abruptly. This is just a part of life. Due to this, I might move on fairly quickly. This isn't because I never cared, I did, but rather since I'm used to it. I'm a fairly independent person, although I still feel lonely now and then.

When I do something embarrassing, I like to own it. Depending on what it is, I might turn it into a joke or just shrug it off. If it bothers me, I'll either try to amend it if I can or remind myself that people will probably soon forget whatever is bothering me, and that life goes on. Whilst they might not, if that happens then I'll just admit it and point out that there's no point scorning me for a past event which cannot be changed. All I can do is learn from the mistake, improve or change my approach and move on. Try to deal with life whatever it throws at me as best I can.

I may have misspoken, actually. I do have ADHD, but I'm an NT in the sense that I'm not on the autistic spectrum.

What a great characteristic to have- to be able to laugh at yourself for saying something awkward/embarrassing. Now here's what I would do- I would laugh at myself openly, but only in order to diffuse the situation, making sure everyone else was laughing at me and not judging me. How manipulative is that? LOL I like your attitude. Seems you can make light of an awkward situation and realize it's not the end of the world!

I was looking for people's input here to better understand where my bf is coming from. I have to try to work out how he sees the world sometimes in order to communicate better with him. I noticed he views most people (i.e., NT's) as sheep and prides himself on being an independent thinker, thus not allowing himself to be influenced by social pressure. It made me curious, thus the post.
 
The minute I read your comment about "normal", I thought "she would have loved that place". I hadn't planned on going there and wasn't dressed for dancing, but I felt completely accepted and no one could have given a crap I was wearing shorts and tennis shoes! It was very freeing- better than the usual meat market where you know everyone is sizing you up. Ugh. In fact, I'm thinking of dragging my bf there tonight.

The worst part though is going from that wonderful place, back to the "normal" world after the end of the convention. I'm usually in a bloody awful mood for the entire following week

Yeah, I bet that sucks. Back to reality! Must be a shock. That's why I think it's essential for people to find their "kind", their tribe, or whatever. Everyone needs somewhere to fit in.

Aye, definitely a bit of a shock.

Granted, the experience as a whole is not perfect... there are downsides to it that make it a bit of a trade-off. Firstly, a convention like that is *very* draining. Nonstop noise and colorful chaos... and I do mean "nonstop". Even during the middle of the night, it keeps going. I'm able to deal with it because I have the means to always have a hotel room to myself (these events are actually held inside of hotels, not in convention centers), and can retreat there at any time. But most people do not have that option and must share a room. Second: conventions are like germ factories. You gotta be careful about that, gotta wash up alot and sanitize. And lastly, they are very expensive. These days, the cost doesnt matter to me whatsoever, but that wasnt always the case. Early on, I'd have to share a hotel room with a bunch of friends, just so that we could pay for it... it got crowded sometimes. A hotel room meant for 1 or 2, yet filled with 6 or 7, becomes a problem. I'm SO freaking glad I dont have to deal with that anymore. It sucked.

And honestly all of that just makes the whole "normal society" thing even more irritating. Like, there IS this grand place you can go to, in order to escape that and be yourself... but boy is it ever going to cost you. And I suspect that's the case for a great many places that, in some way, allow people to be themselves. Normal society pushes everyone so far out that they have to pay up and suffer, if they want to escape those rigid boundaries. "Be like us, or pay the price!"

Bah.
 
What you've described, above, is how I would describe myself and what I experience, although, I am in fact, autistic. Conversely I've noticed that, in terms of spontaneous, brief interactions, such as being stopped on the street, or similar, I don't seem to have as much, if any difficulty. Perhaps, as I haven't had time to think of how I may come across. Although, I may, likely, obsess about how I've conveyed something, or how I came across, after the fact.

I was just thinking about this. She started seeing a therapist and has gained some insight into the root of her social anxiety. I think she is exactly the same as you in terms of spontaneously dealing with social interactions.

It's a party or other gathering that causes her stress. She told me that she figured out that she looks "normal" on the outside (she's a very attractive girl who has a flair for fashion), but her true self is a "weird" and "a nerd".

She is scared of being exposed- that she can pass as a normal person superficially, but once someone gets to know her, they won't like her real self. She's a mere 21, so she's got some years to figure this out and I'm sure she will! I remember when she was in high school, her watching me intently at a New Years Eve party talking to a new person. When we got home she marveled saying, "I just don't understand how you come up with things to talk about."

She was studying me, trying to figure out the skill. I've always told her, you don't have to say much. People love to talk about themselves. Just figure out some good, open-ended questions, then just look at them and nod and then continue to say "um hm" as they blab. LOL I do realize it's not as easy as it sounds. If it were, she wouldn't be seeing a therapist!
 
Aye, definitely a bit of a shock.

Granted, the experience as a whole is not perfect... there are downsides to it that make it a bit of a trade-off. Firstly, a convention like that is *very* draining. Nonstop noise and colorful chaos... and I do mean "nonstop". Even during the middle of the night, it keeps going. I'm able to deal with it because I have the means to always have a hotel room to myself (these events are actually held inside of hotels, not in convention centers), and can retreat there at any time. But most people do not have that option and must share a room. Second: conventions are like germ factories. You gotta be careful about that, gotta wash up alot and sanitize. And lastly, they are very expensive. These days, the cost doesnt matter to me whatsoever, but that wasnt always the case. Early on, I'd have to share a hotel room with a bunch of friends, just so that we could pay for it... it got crowded sometimes. A hotel room meant for 1 or 2, yet filled with 6 or 7, becomes a problem. I'm SO freaking glad I dont have to deal with that anymore. It sucked.

And honestly all of that just makes the whole "normal society" thing even more irritating. Like, there IS this grand place you can go to, in order to escape that and be yourself... but boy is it ever going to cost you. And I suspect that's the case for a great many places that, in some way, allow people to be themselves. Normal society pushes everyone so far out that they have to pay up and suffer, if they want to escape those rigid boundaries. "Be like us, or pay the price!"

Bah.

I can imagine all of the stimuli could be overwhelming- crowds, colors, echoing noise, etc. It must take a while to recover.

While I was in the process of realizing my bf was a little different, but hadn't quite put my finger on it yet, I noticed something I had never seen in my life. We had gone to his company's Christmas party where we got sat next to one of the upper leadership people, so there was a lot of fake smiling and small talk (which I'm good at but find a bore). My bf was a little awkward but can mask, as you say, well enough to manage. Well, when we left there, I have never seen a person actually physically exhibit such a look of exhaustion that I saw on him. It was visibly so evident. That is something that was really a huge clue to me when I started reading up on ASD. I realized he had expended every drop of energy just getting through that party. He later admitted to me that I had read him correctly.

So, speaking of conventions, I went to a comicon that was themed on my old favorite show The Walking Dead. It was such a fun experience. People were dressed up as their favorite character and acting things out. I am just realizing from talking to you that taking a break from the social pressure of conforming (even for me who can do it well), is a nice break. It's feels very freeing, like I said earlier; but I get how it could exhaust your senses.
 
I only really care if their opinion directly affects me (like if they could affect my employment etc).

Other than that I don't care what anyone else thinks of me.

Kevin,

Have you always felt that way or did it take you time to learn not to care?
 
Kevin,

Have you always felt that way or did it take you time to learn not to care?

More like it's taken me time to care.

I could still easily walk out of the house without brushing my hair etc. My wife is constantly getting me to trim eyebrows etc.
 
More like it's taken me time to care.

I could still easily walk out of the house without brushing my hair etc. My wife is constantly getting me to trim eyebrows etc.

LOL. You may not have seen one of my responses in this thread, but my bf leaves the house without shaving his neck and I tell him he looks homeless. He says he can't see back there, so if I care, then I can take responsibility for it. Sounds fair to me!
 
Oh wow. That's an interesting take. I'm not sure how old you are, so this may be a function of age and experience- getting to know yourself. Certainly, you must know whether or not your intentions are the "best" or the "worst". I think knowing our true intentions is the key to knowing our character, don't you think?

I'm really old enough (38) that I should know by now. But I don't. About the closest I've come to understanding my own personality is to note that I am almost never actively cruel. Which is good, I guess, but it seems to be commonly believed that one can be extremely bad without being cruel.

And no, I don't think I know whether my intentions are the best or the worst. That's very much up to interpretation - and honestly, even my own interpretation sort of varies with my mood. Say I do something with the intention of wanting to be loved. I could say, "wanting to please and form bonds with others is clearly a good thing, so I'm Good." Or I could say, "being a needy, emotionally dependent leech is clearly a bad thing, so I'm Bad." Both viewpoints make sense to me.
 
Do I care what people think?
Not as much as some.

Those I care about, I'm interested in what they might say or write.
I will value their honesty in opinion.

Curious about their perception. Willing to listen as I might learn something about myself, social constructs, people, life in general.

I have to be interested or connected to them for their words to matter in some way.
other than that, it's similar to white noise. Just happens in the background and barely registers.
 
Are you frustrated with yourself? Are you frustrated with the fact your brain doesn't seem to be cooperating?

Both of these, which can morph into feelings of self-hatred as one thinks of all the other things that don't come easily.
 
I do care. I am self-diagnosed so you may wish to take that into consideration but I am very sure of my self-diagnosis. I am waiting for a formal one, hopefully for sometime in the spring of next year. From what I have read two things that increase the likelihood of an autistic person caring what others think will be level of intelligence and gender but those also feel like uncomfortable stereotypes to me. In general, it is safe to say that not being intellectually impaired and being female increase the likelihood of social awareness and of certain expectations while growing up. I find it very difficult to understand what other people intend, difficult to accurately determine their feelings, and often I think social conventions don't make sense but I am not lost inside my own world. I bumble along in the world quite aware that I make mistakes and that sometimes I am judged harshly or mistreated because of them. One of the most upsetting things for me is being misunderstood. I feel anxious because I know I am not accurately reading people and in some situations like a relationship or work environment that can result in negative repercussions. Being very sensitive and emotional is apparently also a trait of ADHD and I have self-diagnosed with that also. I would like to care less about what others think but the only way I can achieve that is to keep my contact with others minimal.
 
I stopped caring what others think of me when I became at peace with who I was as a person. not sure that's an ASD thing as much as it's an emotional maturity thing. the ASD thing was coming to the conclusion that I really don't care for the company of others that much and can get along just fine by myself.

I recently walked away from my job for another gig that allows me to work by myself. this may have been the best decision I made in my life. oh, the freedom!

people....I can take'em or leave'em.
 
So many great replies on this thread. Thank you @sisselcakes for asking that question!

Gosh, I would like to have that freedom; but not to the detriment of relationships of others, I suppose.
Me too - though only regarding some relationships :) I'd love to find that balance. A happy medium.

I'm on here reading some posts and came across one that made me wonder about whether or not people care about what people think of them. This may vary quite a bit between different people, independent of aspie or no.
I think that might be coming out in the replies now. Though I do feel that there may be a higher proportion of autistics who don't care so much about what others think of them compared to non-autistics. But I'm just taking a stab at it there. Also, that doesn't mean there aren't many autistics who do care (and care too much sometimes).

The biggest reason i don't like work is worrying about being judged, worrying about not fitting in, and the stress of trying to pass for normal.
It's so tiring isn't it! I also worry about not doing things the way I'm supposed to, or how someone else does it, or too slowly. It's the same outside of work environments sometimes too, like in my marriage I ironed too slow and the wrong way, I kept the wrong sleep routine, blah blah. And frankly, anything I go out of my home for adds stress - shopping, seeing people, anything - because I can't stop myself from trying to pass.

Of course many of us grow up being unable to please anyone, despite our best efforts, so we give up.
Bingo. ('cept I just kept trying spurred on by the belief that I SHOULD be able to be like other people and have the same kind of life I saw them having)
 

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