Autism IS a Disability

[Thinx]

(What post are you replying to...?

) whisper

I think this post is an addition to the posters previous post about his brother on this thread, one post back.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

my aspergers is showing

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

thanks some of us are getting too serious.

 

[Au Naturel]

Autism has overwhelmingly been a curse for me. I'm one of the lucky ones. Took me decades not to hate the world for rejecting me but I managed to scrape together enough work to be solvent and a wife who only occasionally ridicules my traits.

If everything goes perfect and you just happen to be one of the few autistic folks who are encouraged and supported or you have a savant side to your autism, it can work out. Maybe you'll be the next Einstein, or Musk, or Warhol. But most autistic people are just ordinary people with extraordinary difficulties. Inspiration porn falls very flat on the ears of people who were not born to ideal conditions and suffered bullying, social isolation, and financial hardship for their supposed superpower.

Inspiration porn hurts.

Sure, children need to be encouraged to do their best. I suspect there are very few, if any, children on here.

And Greta Thunberg? Poor child was turned into Joan of Arc by her parents and simply used by the movement they advocated for. I have read that her father wishes he hadn't done so.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I come from a family of six kid. we all paid our own way through college parents not rich. only connection to Einstein, he died in 1955, I was born in 1955, the real gift was not being labeled.

Sorry, Ron does not live in the USA, he is Canadian, the real country of opportunity.

 

[Crossbreed]

...only connection to Einstein, he died in 1955, I was born in 1955, the real gift was not being labeled.

(There is still some "relativity" there, though...)

whisper

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

share a surname pieter Zeeman, NOBEL prize physics 1902 sure if connected in some way.

 

[dhl02]

As a diagnosed person, I have some opinions. I think there is value to the autistic pride movement. Mostly the idea of the social model of disability and the functioning labels stuff.

However:
1. In a world built for NTs, I would not wish being autistic on my worst enemy. It is an incredibly difficult existence. Stating that opinion shouldn't be controversial.

2. Becoming a parent is a personal choice. From my point of view, as autism is suspected to have a strong genetic component, I choose not to pro-create. Do I think disabled people should be barred from procreation? Absolutely not. But for me, I have a hard enough time navigating my own life that I don't need to complicate things further by adding the responsibility of a small human. If you can handle it, be my guest though. I kind of feel like that community is pushy about differing views on that subject.

3. I think autistic people have value, however until society as a whole starts making a niche for us, then the only people who realize our struggle are our parents and families. Right now, most employment programs both made from scratch and at mainstream companies come from someone having a family member who is autistic. At this point, if they're not affected personally, nobody cares. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is.

 

[Crossbreed]

Having "little professors" isn't a bad thing.
Having broken "little professors" is a difficult thing. (But the "broken" part isn't inherited. It is a selective injury.)

 

[Au Naturel]

Having "little professors" isn't a bad thing.
Having broken "little professors" is a difficult thing. (But the "broken" part isn't inherited. It is a selective injury.)

The problem with that is that one cannot predict what degree of autism a child might have. Even if you could assume they would be "high functioning," most autistic kids are not "little professors." That's just another stereotype that helps some and harms many. (And I was a failed "little professor.")

As to the broken part, parents aren't all-powerful, all-knowing, and infinitely compassionate. Most of us are middle class or working class, so the resources needed to protect a child from the harshness of the world - or to send them to a private specialist school - are not available. As humans, we have our own flaws and weaknesses. We may be able to assist the child in reaching their potential but we have little ability to shape the larger world. The autistic child will likely face a brutal world with little empathy for their situation.

I suspect that vulnerability to being broken is at least partly inherited. That's why some autistic kids from a good environment can fall flat on their face while some from a brutal environment rise above it. Any 'brokenness" will heavily depend on the child's inherent resilience and that varies hugely from one to the next. It will depend on any comorbidities they may also have. It will depend on accidents of fate and who they encounter and what happens. Parents can avoid doing harm but they are limited in preventing harm from being done by others.

 

[Crossbreed]

The problem with that is that one cannot predict what degree of autism a child might have. Even if you could assume they would be "high functioning," most autistic kids are not "little professors."

There is only one level of autism. Every other trouble is the expression of a co-morbid condition.

I suspect that vulnerability to being broken is at least partly inherited.

It is but the external impetus for such was extremely minimal until 1979.

 

[Au Naturel]

There is only one level of autism. Every other trouble is the expression of a co-morbid condition.

It is but the external impetus for such was extremely minimal until 1979.

I was there before 1979. I am unclear what you mean by 'impetus." Some people are naturally more fragile than others. There were just as many broken people back then and from just as many causes. But back then you had no option but to tough it out because showing you were broken made your problems even worse. Some broke, some didn't.

There was no internet. There was no community. No support groups. It was ok to actively disparage people who didn't fit in. Autism was entirely viewed as the kid in the special ed class beating his head against a wall.

They just didn't call you autistic. For most people on the spectrum, there was no diagnosis done, and the few who were lucky enough to get professional psychological assessment and help were affluent and/or severely disabled.

Instead, you were merely a geek or a nerd or a problem child and pointedly excluded from normal life. That's if you were lucky. If you were unlucky you were creepy, stupid, or possibly retarded or schizotypal in addition to being excluded from normal life. I went through 40 years of different counselors before the idea of autism was even brought up. I couldn't even get most of them to see that I had a problem beyond depression.

Being unable to fit in is a profound disability. It is the primary disability all people with autism have.

As for there not being different levels of autism, that is why they call it a spectrum. It is considered a syndrome because it isn't a single specific trait, it is a group of traits that cluster. I see no evidence that autism isn't as variable in humans as height or skin color.

 

[Crossbreed]

There were just as many broken people back then and from just as many causes.

Not according to special education sources.

2014-CA DDS Autism Cases By Birth Year

(The blue bars to the left of 1979 would be ASD2/3s in today's terms.)​

But back then you had no option but to tough it out because showing you were broken made your problems even worse.

ASD2s & 3s cannot mask or "fake it." 3s don't even know to try.

Instead, you were merely a geek or a nerd or a problem child and pointedly excluded from normal life.

Those weren't in special ed.

As for there not being different levels of autism, that is why they call it a spectrum.

Those levels are a grade of one's cumulative co-morbid conditions, not the shared, fundamental autism.

I am unclear what you mean by 'impetus."

The jump in 1979 strongly suggests to researchers that something became present in the environment that did not exist so commonly before. (The pre-Millennial ASD2s & 3s [< 1979] did not occur so regularly as to point to a common insult.)

 

[Ken]

Instead, you were merely a geek or a nerd or a problem child and pointedly excluded from normal life. That's if you were lucky. If you were unlucky you were creepy, stupid, or possibly retarded or schizotypal in addition to being excluded from normal life. I went through 40 years of different counselors before the idea of autism was even brought up. I couldn't even get most of them to see that I had a problem beyond depression.

I guess I was an unlucky one - diagnosed as retarded.

 

[Crossbreed]

I guess I was an unlucky one - diagnosed as retarded.

I'm in Mensa and I still get called retarded from time-to-time...! (It has no bearing on reality for you.)

 

[Crossbreed]

Even if you could assume they would be "high functioning," most autistic kids are not "little professors." That's just another stereotype that helps some and harms many.

That is how Asperger characterized all of his patients (so it isn't a stereotype).
Kanner did not see that in his patients. They tended to be 2s & 3s (circa 1943). So ASD2/3 was recognized as autism well-before 1979.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

In public school my mother informed me, they considered me retarded, later a genius, leaving her very confused. I was never in doubt of the truth.

 

[Au Naturel]

Yeah. That chart isn't useful. If the autism diagnosis wasn't in common use, then an autistic kid at any level would never get diagnosed as such. I went to several schools and not one of them had an officially autistic student. But we sure had several kids in the special ed class. We had a few in the regular classes that should have been in special ed.

Not only that but there was no school psychologist to diagnose them. It was often based on the opinion of the school principal and maybe a guidance counselor, maybe with an MD advising. Generic category of mental retardation or various forms of mental illness. Or if you had a commonly recognizable co-morbidity of autism, that would be your diagnosis. Professional psychiatry was the domain of the liberal, wealthy, and urban.

Autism would be a diagnosis most parents would fight with tooth and nail because the root cause would be considered frigid mother syndrome.

Autism simply became more fashionable.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

i have a background in quality engineering, every thing has a range or distribution, autism is no different.

 

[Crossbreed]

2s & 3s were very uncommon, 1:10,000. (That is about the same rate as triplets.) 2s & 3s would have still ended up in special ed. even with the wrong diagnosis.

Autism would be a diagnosis most parents would fight with tooth and nail because the root cause would be considered frigid mother syndrome.

That was Dr. Kanner's shtick. Dr. Lorna Wing (who had her own ASD3 daughter, Susie) went into the field because she knew that she wasn't frigid. That stigma is still present in places like Mexico.

[edit: corrected stats]