Autism and Gut Flora

[Major Tom]

No thank you..

 

[Joshua the Writer]

No thank you..

I am now actually reading the article and have one simple question about it:

Why tho?

 

[anacrusis]

I've just had a look at the original paper... seems they didn't have a huge number of subjects in their study, which makes me very doubtful about what sensible conclusions they could even draw from it. Maybe the newspaper editors ought to have waited til more research came out.

 

[WildCat]

Sometimes, I wonder how the mice are able to put up with all of this sh...um, brown stuff.

I also wonder how Mickey feels about this...

 

[Joshua the Writer]

This study seems like a load of crap to me.

 

[Tom]

My OCD swoons at the very idea.
(germs)
'Excuse me !?... You want to do what ?!!'
Panic, panic, dead faint.
On finishing baulking and wretching at the image of another adults fecal matter anywhere near me,

Think of it more as Interpersonal Intestinal Interactions.

 

[Autistamatic]

Interesting factoid.

Andrew Wakefield, the former doctor who was struck off for making the spurious connection between vaccines & autism, was a gastro-enterologist. He was unable to make any causal connections regarding gut flora and autism, and the rest is history...

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Interesting factoid.

Andrew Wakefield, the former doctor who was struck off for making the spurious connection between vaccines & autism, was a gastro-enterologist. He was unable to make any causal connections regarding gut flora and autism, and the rest is history...

So these scientists' efforts are now futile. Okay.

 

[Autistamatic]

So these scientists' efforts are now futile. Okay.

It won't stop them from getting news coverage and doing damage though. We're still fighting the legacy of Wakefield's ignorance & hubris now.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

It won't stop them from getting news coverage and doing damage though. We're still fighting the legacy of Wakefield's ignorance & hubris now.

So they're doing it for the clicks. Okay.

 

[Autistamatic]

So they're doing it for the clicks. Okay.

Actually they're doing it for the money, so they can sell products in poorly regulated markets. Quote from their published paper:

Declaration of Interests
D.-W.K. and R.K.-B. have pending/approved patent applications related to the use of FMT and/or probiotics for various conditions including ASD. G.S. and S.K.M. have filed a pending patent application for the use of specific microbes and metabolites for various neurodevelopmental conditions. S.K.M is a co-founder of Axial Biotherapeutics and member of its scientific advisory board.

Link to original:

 

[GrownupGirl]

Stupid stupid STUPID.

It's revolting to think that people believe that getting vaccinated will give your kid autism or kill them because the vaccines are full of incredibly dangerous toxic substances, but using things like bleach enemas or feeding them feces is perfectly acceptable because it will "cure" them.

And people think just because an animal isn't as social or doesn't interact with them they must be autistic, which is horrible. Will someone please stop the world so I can get off?

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Stupid stupid STUPID.

It's revolting to think that people believe that getting vaccinated will give your kid autism or kill them because the vaccines are full of incredibly dangerous toxic substances, but using things like bleach enemas or feeding them feces is perfectly acceptable because it will "cure" them.

And people think just because an animal isn't as social or doesn't interact with them they must be autistic, which is horrible. Will someone please stop the world so I can get off?

They won't listen to us. That's why we basically have to (not literally) brute force it to them.

 

[Autistamatic]

Just to be clear - nobody would be "fed" faeces in the highly unlikely event this idea should bear fruit. It is transferred directly where it's needed by a process similar to an enema.
It is not unreasonable to imply that there may be some connection between gut flora and the brain since it technically extends into the stomach, but any connection with autism in unproven, despite these tenuous animal results.
Please also take into account that such transfer of biota has proven to be an effective treatment for conditions such as Colitis and Crohns Disease, so the medical process itself is not totally new.

 

[Kevin1968]

Just to be clear - nobody would be "fed" faeces in the highly unlikely event this idea should bear fruit. It is transferred directly where it's needed by a process similar to an enema.
It is not unreasonable to imply that there may be some connection between gut flora and the brain since it technically extends into the stomach, but any connection with autism in unproven, despite these tenuous animal results.
Please also take into account that such transfer of biota has proven to be an effective treatment for conditions such as Colitis and Crohns Disease, so the medical process itself is not totally new.

Considering colitis and Crohn's Disease both affect digestion it is not unlikely that altering the gut flora could have a beneficial effect, it is far less likely that microbes found in the gut could have a positive effect on the brain (some nasty microbes can cross the brain barrier and do affect the brain, but usually in a negative manner)

 

[Autistamatic]

Considering colitis and Crohn's Disease both affect digestion it is not unlikely that altering the gut flora could have a beneficial effect, it is far less likely that microbes found in the gut could have a positive effect on the brain

Indeed The only reason for mentioning it is to relate that the faecal transplant is an established procedure for more obvious issues. The transplant was also only part of the research method and is not part of their proposed product/business to take advantage of gullible, desperate people.

The company that published the research is pushing the idea that rather than "curing" autism supposedly caused by bad gut flora, they can help relieve "symptoms" using good bacteria. Their patents relate to as yet undiscovered (as far as I can tell) microbes that they project will improve "problem behaviours".

Yakult for autism in effect (Yakaut??). Of course you'd have to drink one of these (most likely very expensive) probiotics everyday for it to work meaning people could be drinking them for years waiting for them to work before they realise they've been duped. Easy money just like all the other snake-oil treatments that come along.

At least it's not likely to harm anything other than their, or more likely their parent's bank balances, and hey, at least they might stop feeling bloated and windy

 

[Fino]

Indeed The only reason for mentioning it is to relate that the faecal transplant is an established procedure for more obvious issues. The transplant was also only part of the research method and is not part of their proposed product/business to take advantage of gullible, desperate people.

The company that published the research is pushing the idea that rather than "curing" autism supposedly caused by bad gut flora, they can help relieve "symptoms" using good bacteria. Their patents relate to as yet undiscovered (as far as I can tell) microbes that they project will improve "problem behaviours".

Yakult for autism in effect (Yakaut??). Of course you'd have to drink one of these (most likely very expensive) probiotics everyday for it to work meaning people could be drinking them for years waiting for them to work before they realise they've been duped. Easy money just like all the other snake-oil treatments that come along.

At least it's not likely to harm anything other than their, or more likely their parent's bank balances, and hey, at least they might stop feeling bloated and windy

At least Yakult tastes great!

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Indeed The only reason for mentioning it is to relate that the faecal transplant is an established procedure for more obvious issues. The transplant was also only part of the research method and is not part of their proposed product/business to take advantage of gullible, desperate people.

The company that published the research is pushing the idea that rather than "curing" autism supposedly caused by bad gut flora, they can help relieve "symptoms" using good bacteria. Their patents relate to as yet undiscovered (as far as I can tell) microbes that they project will improve "problem behaviours".

Yakult for autism in effect (Yakaut??). Of course you'd have to drink one of these (most likely very expensive) probiotics everyday for it to work meaning people could be drinking them for years waiting for them to work before they realise they've been duped. Easy money just like all the other snake-oil treatments that come along.

At least it's not likely to harm anything other than their, or more likely their parent's bank balances, and hey, at least they might stop feeling bloated and windy

These are worse than MLMs such as Doterra or Young Living. Holy crap!

 

[tree]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-naturopath-fecal-transplants-jason-klop-court-judgment-1.6782159

Appeal Court Justice Leonard Marchand said in his reasons last week that Klop's proposed appeal of that decision "has insufficient merit to meet the relatively low threshold for granting leave."

In the lower court ruling, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Jacqueline Hughes had said the evidence in front of the college was enough to suggest Klop's business could present "a real risk of harm to the public" and that he may have committed professional misconduct and unprofessional conduct.