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are we remnants of something ancient?

Dragon's Tooth

Well-Known Member
I've been thinking recently about human evolution. I have wondered if we aspies might be the genetic expression of Neanderthals or Neandertals. It is thought that these groups interbred with modern humans and I wonder if the reason we don't fit in with modern humans is because we are the remains of what was another species of human being expressed because of in breeding in modern humans. Red hair for instance is thought to have been introduced into the human race this way.
 
Not a whole lot of evidence for or against the Neanderthal theory.
Neanderthals were larger and tougher than humans, and that isn't us. But that is hardly conclusive.
 
Well maybe so, but maybe not exactly them. There have been many other races before them that probably would have fit the criteria more accurately. I just like to think of us as a different step in (incredibly slow) human evolution. I don't mean "master race" and all that crap, just a different fork in the road that our species is taking in evolution.
 
It was just a random thought I had and I was thinking it might be a good discussion point. I sort ran with it because well to have red hair lets say you don't have to big and burly as smith2267 suggests. I'm not saying it is a fact but I'm interested to see if anyone else thinks is a possibility at least.

Though silent ABAB I like your thinking that its not a left over trait but another step forward. How many science fiction books have explored what human evolution in the future might be.

though it would be funny if this was accurate.
 
Funny you should ask, Dragon. I mentioned the same possibility too in a thread about 'where do you think you got your Asperger's/Autism from'. My own hair is a funny shade of auburn when I don't colour it (I prefer dark chocolate brown & I flat iron it smooth & shiny but not too flat). My husband's hair is long & reddish & he looks like a handsome version of a Neanderthal. He could literally go stand in a natural museum display without any cosmetic enhancement: just a change of clothing. I don't have that look, though.

We've sent our DNA to the Genographic project by National Geographics who are mapping the human genome. They'll be testing for both Neanderthal & Denisovan DNA. Some people have found that they're as much as a whopping 5% 'tal & we're hopeful to discover something similar. The results should be ready in mid April since it takes 4 months or so. It would be great if someone would cross check the high %age 'tal people for the syndrome.
 
I can't figure out how they know what neanderthal DNA is, without an example to compare it to.
I know I'm part american indian, but only through oral family history.
 
@ Smith: They have many samples of 'tal DNA from teeth that they've found as well as from some bone marrow. The same for Denisovan DNA so they compare it with that.
 
Some of the attributes of AS seem atavistic. Like the preference for the same foods (throughout prehistory, how many people died trying new foods?) and the dislike of sudden loud noises (we used to be a prey species).
 
The tendency to spill, drop & knock stuff over seems atavistic to me. Early hominids didn't have homes full of area rugs, knick knacks & other fiddly crap. We didn't have to carry around all kinds of rolling fidgety items. Food choices would've been dictated by what was seasonally available,familiar & abundant & trying new things not sure that they qualify as food simply because they can be crammed into one's mouth, would've been very risky. Without refrigeration, anything that looked, smelled or felt 'off' in the mouth would've been spat out (or not even touched at all) for fear of poison (there was no 911 poison control centre for them to call). Being overly chatty would've been an absolute liability when hunting, hiding from predators or espying a 'foreign' band or tribe of other hominids who weren't kin. I thin we have an extremely honed set of survival flight/flight/ignore/submit instincts: we are from another time BUT I think that, with the way the world is going with all this technology, well suited for the future.
 
Remnants of something ancient .... or forerunners of something new? Evolution doesn't stand still, nor does it necessarily know what the best path to choose is. It's down to chance. Lots of possibilities. I'd be very surprised to see proof that that our human brains have stopped "evolving"...
 
I agree with you on that one, Tarragon. It is only human arrogance that deludes some poeple into thinking that they represent the end product of all evolution, The only true constant in our continuum is change & it is ongoing.
 
What I'm wondering is what would the Neandertal have to do wish Aspergers?

Maybe we are all a mish mash of genes, but I've been reading about events in human history where the population has been reduced to a tiny fraction, and we are all descended from a small core of surviving humans from periods of great natural disasters. There are so many humans around now, I wonder if we all aren't just random mutations. Except we all have so much in common that we are linked .... by something. is it common ancestry? is is mutating genes? Why are there so many of us able to be labelled with autism, and why are we only mildly linked as aspies?

big question, no idea if we will ever know the answer! :)

here's the wiki about the "population bottleneck" theory.

Population bottleneck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and here's another interesting idea...

Founder effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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What I'm wondering is what would the Neandertal have to do wish Aspergers?

I picked this because it is a widely accepted theory that neandertals and neanderthals possibly interbred with modern humans. Neandertal and neanderthals originated in Europe where as modern humans originated in Africa. A genetic comparison for modern humans compared with the mostly complete genomes of the neandertals and neanderthals reveals that those of pure African decent have no genes that cross over. It is also theorised that red hair, as I've said before, comes from these populations rather than an african population and that white skin is also along those lines because there is less sunlight in Europe compared with Africa. Some modern evidence is that when modern humans encountered the neandertals and neanderthals populations they interbred rather than one killing the other.

Some European people have been shown to have large amounts of their genome that comes possibly from these ancient populations. Language was also though to have come from Neandertals because neandertals were hunters rather than scavengers like modern humans were. Neandertals would hunt food such as horses, ox or mammoths where as modern humans would roam vast distances in search of food on the African savannah. This means that modern human didn't really need a language to communicate complex ideas but neandertals did. So one of the current theories, which has some evidence from recovering ancient genomes of Neandertals, suggests that modern humans actually acquired language from interbreeding with other ancient human populations.

So I have wondered if Asperger's is perhaps the genetic expression of how Neandertals communicated. Hence why we have trouble communicating in a NT world. NT communication is the modern human form of communication and Aspergers is the Neandertal or ancient human communication techniques. This would make sense as we aspies seem to be more geared up for this technological world than our NT counter parts. If we think about what would be required for a hunt, the said humans would have to very good at spacial awareness in order to communicate how to move though environments relative to the others on a hunt, there would be a need for careful and precise communication, there would be a need for a fair amount of fore thought and there would also be the need for said humans to be able to think about scenarios in their heads to figure out how best to achieve a common goal. I think we aspies can probably tick off a lot of these items. I'm also going to throw in that we aspies seem better able to communicate with each other than with NTs so it would another possible piece of evidence that our genetic expressions were more about us as a sub race (or what ever) communicating with each other than with NTs.

If you take the above and apply it to an NT, most NTs would actually struggle with most of those conditions for a hunt. Not as a result of the modern world but because I think their brains aren't really wired that way. They are happier to scavenge their way through life than to plan it out.

I know I'm making some big generalizations here, but I think it a way it makes sense. However I do see weight in the argument that perhaps we are the next evolution. We are vastly more prepared for this world than a lot of NTs. However I think our limiting factor will be that for a lot of us being able to pass those genes on will be difficult. I don't mean that to be an insult to anyone, but we all know at the end of the day that finding a life partner to have kids with is probably a bit of luck more and many prayers to what ever god is out there than anything else. And definitely a bit harder for the guys than the girls as guys are expected to make the first move and expected to have something to offer a prospective mate.

Ultimately I think we as a human race will loose our genetic diversity mostly because those of us who should have been weeded out have not been due to medical science. I have watched so many medical programs about some poor kid that has been through so many medical procedures for years and years to keep them alive rather than letting them pass. I think we as a society are loosing what it means that sometimes things don't work out, that some times the genetics a child is born with are not meant to survive. These genes are supposed to be weeded out but now a lot of these children are being kept alive long enough to reproduce themselves. Then there are the ones who reproduce for a career choice rather than because they want to bring a child into this world to love and care for (I say this because in the town I currently live in this is actually what happens. For any girl raised in this town at present it is considered to be a miracle if she gets to age 20 without two children). If those of us who are educated and above average intelligence defer or not have children because of careers or choice or what have you does this mean we as a human race and breeding ourselves into an evolutionary dead end because only those who would normally not be able to breed are now being given every opportunity to breed? Or paid to breed?

I know I'm throwing some things out there that would be controversial but screw it I want to have a good intellectual debate where political correctness is irrelevant.
 
Holy s**t, when did you learn to read minds? This is exactly what I was thinking, but whenever I brought it up to people, they seemed not to keen about it. I guess we think alike, right?
 
I think us aspies keep our deeper opinions to ourselves because the world isn't ready for how we think. We see the big picture ... not the cute fluffy one. I've had a lot of crap for some of my more extreme opinions. Even here on an aspie forum I have been hesitant to share some of my more "extreme" beliefs for fear of people not accepting them.
 
Evolution and natural selection are not the same thing. Evolution is random. Natural selection is the selective pressure our environment apples to evolution.
 
Evolution and natural selection are not the same thing. Evolution is random. Natural selection is the selective pressure our environment apples to evolution.

I think they may be referring to how Natural Selection drives Evolution. I may also be wrong though.
 
@Dragons Tooth,

I see what you're saying about people surviving because we can save them medically rather than let them die. Very harsh truth, but there you go. It's a very tough subject as I'm sure I'm not the only one here who probably wouldn't have survived birth without medical intervention...

As for the thought about it being our moral duty to spread our wonderful aspie selves far and wide, Er, I wonder if we shouldn't organise a giant "love-in" between all is aspie males and our female counterparts here on AC?? :bounce: Im wonder how our female aspies would feel about their moral duty?? ;)

Prepare for a backlash of female indignation .... :P

As for being paid for mating, well I bet there won't be a shortage of male volunteers!! :wavespin:

Females might get upset again realising that they carry a "monetary" value(!!!)

But, hey, it's all rock n roll isn't it? :D
 

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