Fear of being used and scammed

[AprilR]

I have a friend that i know from high school. We used to be close but than drifted apart at university.

Years later we have come together once again, but we are so different and sometimes i feel like.. She does not really see me as myself and like me either.

I feel like she admires my family and lifestyle, since her family is kind of religious and not very educated. She sees my family as prestigious and more modern.

I sometimes feel like she is friends with me bc of the cultural difference between us and bc she wants to belong to the world of my family. Not my world, my family's. We dont have a lot of common interests either, so i sometimes think that is why she is friends with me.

I am sorry if this is incoherent, this friend just asked me to lend her some money and i am basically questioning my life now. It is hard for me to understand people's intentions. I feel like she is a good person who actually like me, but maybe that is just my wishful thinking.

 

[thejuice]

What made you friends at school?

I used to have a friend that asked to borrow money. Turns out she had a gambling problem and had a allowance from wealthy parents that she spent on online slots etc. I dont blame her too much as she had severe mental illness' and I think she was quite vulnerable to that kind of thing. I know another guy who had a terrible brain injury that had a gambling problem too. Thats the problem with online casinos, its too easy to capture vulnerable people and empty their pockets.

I did eventually have to distance myuself, she wouldnt stop asking, she would ask all my friends too. They were all getting fed up.

 

[AprilR]

I was sort of masking at school, pretending to be an extroverted and funny person. I guess we had things at common at that point in life.

This friend likes to spend money a lot too even when she is struggling. So i dont think it is a good idea to lend her money even if i had it.

But i guess what i am trying to ask is how do you trust someone wont take advantage of you? What is a red flag that someone is a user? How do you learn these things when you are autistic?

 

[thejuice]

Yeah, i guess you could call it a friendship born out of circumstance, at a time you were just trying to survive and probably needed allies.
I would go with your gut on this one.

 

[Masked Man]

I would say no. Unless you can afford it. Never give someone - ANYONE - money that you cannot part with.

Your other question - how to know who to trust - that's harder. I only trust people I have known for a long time and I have known them on a personal level. I tend to not trust easily, especially people who just pop up after not talking to me for a long time and then suddenly coming back and asking for something.

I did give a friend some money over Christmas but I basically gave it to her without her even asking for it and I didn't ask her to give me any of it back. I gave it to her because she had two pets who were sick at the same time and she could not take care of them and pay her rent/bills all at the same time. I gave it to her because fundamentally she's a good person.

 

[Judge]

First and foremost in all fairness to yourself, you have to ask yourself whether or not in the strictest of financial terms whether or not you have the ultimate form of disposable income. To be able to part with money that may or may not return either in time or at all.

If your sincerest answer is "yes", stop right there. When your best response is an honest one. That at this time, you simply cannot afford it.

If you can afford it, then consider how much trust, love or friendship is or isn't involved. Someone you lost contact over so many years? Sorry...that would stop me cold, even if I could afford to part with the money either temporarily or permanently.

Beyond that it's most likely just a matter of persons who cannot seem to say "no" to people. I know some dread it, and yet often regret giving into it later.

That's the long version. The short version? Read the description of the thread. There's your answer.

 

[Hypnalis]

I was sort of masking at school, pretending to be an extroverted and funny person. I guess we had things at common at that point in life.

This friend likes to spend money a lot too even when she is struggling. So i dont think it is a good idea to lend her money even if i had it.

But i guess what i am trying to ask is how do you trust someone wont take advantage of you? What is a red flag that someone is a user? How do you learn these things when you are autistic?

Many NT's can be fooled by scammers. Not all, but users exist because their tricks are sometimes effective on some people.
And some people (e.g. Narcs) really believe "in the moment" that they'll act honorably, but never actually do.
Perhaps there's a reliable way to identify and avoid such people, but I've never seen any guidance in writing that wasn't nonsense.

FWIW being "guilted" into anything significant is a reliable red flag. Even if it's family or friends.

So ...

If you don't want to lend her money say so, Don't give a reason. Don't JADE if she asks why.

If you'd like to, and it's a lot (say a significant proportion of the average monthly after-tax income of someone in your area) tell her:
a) That you can't afford that much (this is routine - even if it's real she'll be highballing, you need to lowball)
b) That you'll need a contract with a repayment schedule

An attempt at guilting you after that means you should refuse. And it's ok to lie in that case. Prepare a "script".

And OFC there's a risk that the friendship ends. But you didn't start this - she did.
Accept that the risk exists. Play the game well.

 

[AprilR]

I don't even have that amount of money, and i told her as much. She did not insist.

But it still makes me feel wary, because it makes me suspect her intentions.

Am i naive and trying to protect myself bc of this self awareness or overly suspicious? I have no idea.

 

[Judge]

I don't even have that amount of money, and i told her as much. She did not insist.

But it still makes me feel wary, because it makes me suspect her intentions.

Am i naive and trying to protect myself bc of this self awareness or overly suspicious? I have no idea.

I suspect this scenario upsets most people. A common dilemma when anyone puts you on the spot for any reason. It doesn't feel good.

I chose at the age of around 17 not to allow anyone to put me on the spot if I can help it. Made it a matter of "general principle". That if something just doesn't feel right, don't do it. No matter how anyone else views your response.

Not to mention that amount of time you were out of work. Getting by without a job is a costly affair many of us know all too well.

 

[AprilR]

@Judge That is a good idea. To me, i dont want to talk about money issues with friends. I dont even want this to be a topic we discuss. It makes me uncomfortable.

I had another long time friend and we never discussed things like this.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

I don't even have that amount of money, and i told her as much. She did not insist.

But it still makes me feel wary, because it makes me suspect her intentions.

Am i naive and trying to protect myself bc of this self awareness or overly suspicious? I have no idea.

You are not overly suspicious.

 

[Outdated]

What is a red flag that someone is a user?

When they ask to borrow money!

That's the biggest red flag there is. Asking for money isn't just waving a red flag, it's smacking you in the side off the head with it.

 

[AprilR]

@Outdated : we have been friends for years and it is the first time she asked for money though. I also have to mention that she does not seem to have boundaries between her and people. She once mentioned that she let a friend borrow her credit card which shocked me

 

[Judge]

She once mentioned that she let a friend borrow her credit card which shocked me

That would appear as a two-fold "red flag" to me.

1) The obvious per what she told you.
2) That she only said that to manipulate your sense of charity.

Not good...either way IMO.

 

[Trophonius]

It's complicated. I'd say it's not ideal to ever borrow or lent money to friends, because it can easily kill the friendship.
I would either reject the proposal, or simply give her the money telling her there is no need to pay it back-just once.

 

[Hypnalis]

we have been friends for years and it is the first time she asked for money though. I also have to mention that she does not seem to have boundaries between her and people. She once mentioned that she let a friend borrow her credit card which shocked me

FWIW, people who mooch off their "friends" aren't friends.

But some people with poor impulse control (which usually comes with other signs of under-developed emotional regulation skills) burn money on impulse buying, and literally don't understand why they're always broke.
Even if you get on with such people, you shouldn't lend them money, and you shouldn't split bills.

This kind of "chaotic" behavior has other indirect risks associated with it. If there are other signs she's an "agent of chaos", we could discuss that.

Back to money:

There's a moderately reliable "active" test you can use: next time you have coffee or something similarly "cheap but not zero" in cost, pick up the tab without making a thing out of it. Just "I'll get this".

Then do it again the time after so you'll have paid twice in a row if she doesn't react.

If she doesn't make a point of balancing up the second (which is "correct") or third time, there's a money issue.

Also, if you split the bill when you eat together, watch to see if she gets more, and more expensive items, when you're paying, and less when she's paying. That's a good "mooch indicator"

Another reliable (but not 100%) sign of an unbalanced friendship is if one person only interacts with the other when the situation favors them. Two testable data points:
* You're never the first person the other one calls (doesn't mean they don't like you, but you're probably not their "bestie"
* She's "never" available when you ask or or need something even if it's just company, but you're expected to drop everything and step up when she calls.

Note that none of these tests are highly reliable in isolation, and there are possible special cases, but they're repeatable, so you can get good data over a couple of months.

 

[ManuelXX]

How to know whether to trust friendship with this person? In my opinion, you can trust his friendship if he has helped you in the past in your time of difficulty.

 

[Outdated]

But some people with poor impulse control (which usually comes with other signs of under-developed emotional regulation skills) burn money on impulse buying, and literally don't understand why they're always broke.

In my experience that's as much as 50% of my country's total population. Even those that think they can manage money well have a problem, but the less wise fall in to the trap of using credit services and without the necessary financial skills to get themselves back out of debt they become indentured slaves for the rest of their lives.

I wasn't all that much different before I went bush. I was always good at handling money but I still wasted huge amounts on totally unnecessary rubbish. Living 170 Km away from the nearest shop taught me some very valuable lessons.

 

[AprilR]

When my friend and i go out we pay seperately mostly. I think she has shopping problems though, she seems impulsive and likes spending money a lot.

I am still not sure if she is a user, but i will be careful regardless

 

[Judge]

I think she has shopping problems though, she seems impulsive and likes spending money a lot.

I am still not sure if she is a user, but i will be careful regardless

Perhaps the ultimate sign that you should not loan them anything. Much like my brother until he finally declared bankruptcy and was forced to change his spending habits. Having incurred a huge credit card bill he couldn't possibly have ever payed off.

For some people, having even just a little money amounts to a kind of heroin addiction as a compulsive spender, incapable of understanding the value of saving money.