A Question of Semantics

[Fino]

Here is the sentence in question:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..."

This a question about whether or not this is saying something particular. This is in the Bible and is said by Jesus to His eleven Apostles before He ascends to Heaven. My question is:

Is this a command for Christians to be baptized?

Since it's a command for the Apostles to baptize and somebody needs to be baptized for them to baptize, does it logically follow that Jesus commanded people to be baptized? Or would that be someone submitting for the sake of someone else's obedience? A direct command to be baptized would clearly include everyone. Does this?

Is it excessively semantical to argue that this is not a command to be baptized?

Hopefully that's enough information for people to formulate an opinion, but let me know if you have any questions.

 

[unperson]

Sounds like a command, but there are other forms of baptism besides human performance.

 

[PastelPetals]

Yeah it seems like from the quotes you put in your post people are commanded to be baptized. This also looks like an endorsement of proselytizing.

 

[Kalinychta]

I suppose it hinges on what he meant by the word “baptizing.” It has several meanings. The word “baptize” is from the Greek and means “immerse.” It can also mean to initiate. So perhaps he wasn’t referring to the ritual of baptism; he just meant to immerse or initiate people in the religion and in the name or blessing of those deities.

 

[Booknerd515]

To me I see it in a different way, more as a spreading of thoughts to other followers. It doesn't seem like a command in my view due to the term 'disciple'. Baptize has several meanings, I'm seconding what @Kalinychta said.

 

[ucrenegade]

Yes you need to be baptized but in that instance he was speaking to his special ones we are not to go and evangelize like Christianity says to.

 

[Unclewolverine]

There is a lot of misunderstandings and confusion due to problems of translations of the Bible. Over the years many have translated things in a specific way to fit their agenda. Like how homosexuality wasn't added until 1946.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

Well, if the original disciples were first century Jews, they would have related "baptism" to a Mikveh, which is a ritual bath taken before temple services to make oneself ritually clean enough to stand before God as part of a congregation of righteous men.

Chew on that a while and see what you come up with philosophically...

 

[jleeb05]

Is this part of the ongoing pressure your friend has put on you to be baptized?

I think the problem is trying to understand the meaning behind something that has been translated from ancient Greek or Latin and is from a culture and time vastly different than our own. There are also many different versions that have slightly different wordings. So even the quote you posted is from one specific version of the Bible. I'm sure people can manipulate the words of many passages to find whatever meaning they seek.

I'm not a religious scholar. That said, I would read this to say that the Apostles should go and introduce others to Christianity. He was asking them to spread his message. A symbolic or metaphorical baptism, of sorts. I'm not sure I would interpret this as demanding that they perform actual baptisms. I also don't see any inherent command that all followers be baptized. I don't think the Bible portrays Jesus as someone who beats around the bush or engages in subtlety. If he was mandating that all his followers be baptized, it seems he could and would have just said so.

But again, I think the words are sufficiently vague enough that reasonable minds could differ.

 

[Suzette]

Well, if the original disciples were first century Jews, they would have related "baptism" to a Mikveh, which is a ritual bath taken before temple services to make oneself ritually clean enough to stand before God as part of a congregation of righteous men.

Chew on that a while and see what you come up with philosophically...

Of course the original text wasn't written in English. The English version is a translation of a translation and was probably based on a story originally shared by word of mouth. Jesus may have said something entirely different in Aramaic.

 

[Kalinychta]

Jesus may have said something entirely different in Aramaic.

Or he may not have said it at all—in any language.

 

[unperson]

They were baptised by fire, usually called baptism by the holy spirit, or something similar, so water baptism only symbolises the baptism you really want or need.

Many people enjoy water baptism and find it meaningful and helpful, but I, being autistic, find ritual hard to relate to and a little bizarre. It may be an autistic resistance to ritual (if you're similar to me about these things) and that's something you can't resolve through logical argument, you either go along to get along or you don't.

I've only understood ritual somewhat after 40. Might be a 'difficulty understanding abstract concepts' thing.

 

[Fino]

Sounds like a command, but there are other forms of baptism besides human performance.

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

 

[Fino]

Yes you need to be baptized but in that instance he was speaking to his special ones we are not to go and evangelize like Christianity says to.

Interesting. So you basically believe that all evangelizing should have ended when the Apostles died? How would people become Christian? Let them find us?

 

[Wulven]

So I have thought on this. Baptism was done with water for the "remission" or setting aside of sin. Jesus was baptized by John. Even though he was sinless. I believe it was sign Jesus was the fulfillment of baptism. Given he died on the cross for the "forgiveness" of sin. And baptism by the holy ghost came about. Marking those who believe in him threw the spirit. As is written.
Another way to look at it is like this. You can be baptized by a priest with water. But, it does not in anyway mean your sin's are forgiven.

 

[unperson]

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

see post of 9:01am, just above the quote.

 

[Unclewolverine]

Interesting. So you basically believe that all evangelizing should have ended when the Apostles died? How would people become Christian? Let them find us?

I see it as living the best life possible and you will be further blessed. When others ask why your family is so happy and doing well you tell them about your faith. As we have walked closer, my family and I have been blessed greatly. More than a few have asked us our secret, truth is though, it's no secret!

 

[ucrenegade]

Interesting. So you basically believe that all evangelizing should have ended when the Apostles died? How would people become Christian? Let them find us?

I believe in the five fold gifts given to the church. Most of the learning would have started in the home a father teaching his house then you would meet with others on shabbat. When in public God said for us to do two things to be a witness which is wear tzit tzit and second to always have a answer why you believe. Having those two things and the peculiarity of our lifestyle would raise questions they could come to you. Like I said only a select few were supposed to evangelize the way we know evangelism to be.

 

[Tom]

That's a pretty famous verse, sometimes called the 'Great Commission'.

To examine the meaning of the verse you would have to look at alternative translations or interpretations (if any).

It's pretty easy these days with online resources. Here is one:

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

I take it pretty much at face value. It's a instruction to his disciples to go out and make more.

However, I get the feeling this is part of a different question, that being whether a Christian is commanded to be baptiszed or not.

I'm not a theologen (I can't even spell it, lol) But I can pass on what I was taught about it. Being a 'lifer' in the military I had to move to a different state or different country every few years and therefore change churches. I have been a member of seven total. All were what I would describe as Independent Bible or Independent Baptist Churches. In all, Baptism was considered a 'should' but not a 'must'. You could be a member indefinately and not have been baptized. But in none was pressure brought to bear on you if you did not. It was just encouraged if and when the subject came up. It was considered something you did voluntarily when you felt it was right to do so. None practiced infant baptism.

I got the feeling it was a public display of commitment, something in addition to your personal adoption to faith which you can do at any time and any where. (My wife did her's in a janitors closet, ). I also thought it was likely an encouragment to others.

 

[Streetwise]

The more I know about Judaism the more I think it's saying baptism the mikveh way, go to a mikveh when you've got Yeshua in you ,so that you've fulfilled the ritual cleansing of your body, Yeshua said he was the fulfillment of what was spoken by the prophets in torah.