Something about employment

I'm not sure how the Netherlands works, but perhaps next time it might be better to get information filled out from a psychiatrist. In Australia at least, a psychiatrist is pretty much the boss - what they say, goes.

I signed up for an employment service here too, and the person interviewing me basically couldn't refute anything that was said in the medical report - because it was written by a psychiatrist. All she did was add to it, but she couldn't dispute anything that had been written down. Actually, most of her report was based around the medical report.

Anyways, navigating through bureaucracy is pretty frustrating. If you can dispute the findings, then it's a good idea.

Well, in Holland it's like this;

There's the GP who gives you a note to visit a therapist of sorts. The therapist sees what he can do, if he can't do anything, he'll send you, to the "2nd line". That's the specialists. But that means that in order to make progress I have to go through 2 instances to get at the specialist.

With employment here it was like; Oh, you're visiting a therapist? We'll hook you up with one of ours, to see if you're really not fit to work. If was a kinda agressive approach from them I guess. It's not that I intended to throw it on the table, but since they asked "why did you quit college?" I told em "had a lot of issues there, drove me mental, seeing a therapist now". To where they blatantly state "if someone is seeing a therapist he is not able to participate in any job" and thus they hook me up with one of their (in my opinion biased) professionals.

The thing is... I don't have a diagnosis or a medical report as of yet. I've went through dozens of therapists in my life, each with his own idea, yet nothing was ever written in a report as a guideline for stuff like employment and all. Even if a psychiatrist gave me a note, the employment center would still debate that. Heck... a friends mom who has lot of back problems was told "just don't tell them about your back at the interview"... and that's what the people at the employment center told her, because they thought if she told, she would emphasize on the negative and make it harder to land a job and thus still require benefits. I see the same stuff happening here... "just don't mention your autism". And it will probably go down to "and what if have a breakdown for whatever related reason?", to where they apply.. "then it's your own fault if you get fired, you shouldn't have those at work".

If anyone, I think it's people at employment centers, that should have basic understanding about "honesty" and the entire deal, but I guess that doesn't fly either.

But yeah... I'll send in any letter, even if it is to buy myself some time until I have a more solid report.

As someone who is employed and has had to put up with a lot of BS on the job due to being on the spectrum, there are lots of times when I wish that I could simply "opt out" of the system and claim mental health disability. On the other hand, I do think that you need to be aware that there is quite a bit of resentment towards people who do, especially where I live. To put it another way, if you honestly feel that you are not capable of working even though others like your therapist feel you are, I would not advertise that. You run the risk of being misunderstood. As someone on the spectrum I do understand that not everyone is capable of working, but as a taxpayer who is barely getting by, I am afraid that I do not like my hard-earned tax money going to support someone who is capable of working but who chooses not to. What's more, people like me tend to vote, so in effect, we are deciding your future.

It sounds like to me that you are trying to fight the system, and as I said, that doesn't go over well with those who don't have the option of not working. And frankly, I am glad I don't have that option. I have seen what it does to people around me, and in these economic times I think it is foolhardy to choose a path of dependence upon government help. Believe me, I consider that to be far worse than any situation I might face on the job.

You also mentioned "honesty" at employment centers . . . being honest cost me benefits that I otherwise would have gotten and ended my education. Because when I lost my job I was going to school. Even though I was only taking a couple of classes that was enough for the unemployment office to deny me my unemployment, because I was a student and was not available 24/7. That taught me a valuable lesson.

If you think that the world runs on honesty or ought to run on honesty then you are sadly deluded, and until you can come to terms with the fact that it is not, then I am afraid you are in for some rough spots. I am not telling people to go out and lie, but you don't have to tell them everything either. Yes, when it comes to job interviews it is a game. You do not want to tell them anything that they can use against you; you have to know how to put the proper spin on things. And as for meltdowns and such on the job, it is up to you to decide how you are going to handle that. I had a meltdown a few years ago at work due to job stress and to this day I do not understand why I am still employed there when others got laid off. But they made it clear that they would not tolerate such behavior if it continued. If I sound harsh and unsympathetic it is because I have learned to accept the world the way it really is.

Oh... like I said, it's not that I'm actually against work or the entire concept of paid labour. Don't get me wrong... and as of this, I understand the point of you as a taxpayer. Heck, I've had jobs in the past, so I do know where you're coming from.

I've read a quote on this board about Einstein which was something about "do not ask a fish to fly". That being said... I think it's time better spent in putting emphasis on what people can do in a workforce and in a decent way, rather than to single them out and force it on them. Granted, it's harsh times when it comes to jobs nowadays but to some extent I can "accept" stuff. But there's also this saying about a finger and a hand... you know the one I'm getting at I think.

Like I said, I don't mind work. But for a general guideline keep in mind this, it's not the tasks you manage at a job. There is no problem with that, there is a problem with all the BS around it. I've been fired on jobs because they thought I was "the weirdo", because I couldn't relate to "general interest" and spend my lunchtime in a corner eating and reading magazines I liked rather than have a chat about last nights game, which I didn't watch. Watching this game for the sole purpose of having a conversation at work is in my opinion invading my personal space. That's the stuff that got me fired for a part. I've been fired because companies, and they gave me this on paper, deemed me too smart to walk in this line and they were afraid I'd look for another job in the future. I can defend myself all day long where I state "no I wouldn't do this"... I can't, because I will look for something more challenging when I feel like it. And perhaps I'm the ignorant guy who even asks a day off to look for another job.

But it's the, what I call, secondary job requirements, which is where I fail. Those things are not on paper, they're rather informal and it's stuff that apparently a lot of well.. for lack of a better word... "normal" people seems to get right. I remember a discussion I had at an agency where one the requirements was "be friendly". To where I stated, and mind you, it's a thing I just do... it's not to take a piss out of anything, I just do, I have thing with words (it was one of those reasons why I went to journalism school for a while). So I asked "what is friendly?" How can a company who puts up these jobs be sure that everyone has the same basic understanding of this word? You can't define this with pinpoint accuracy. This word and the personal definition has to do with the culture, your familiy, your friends, your understanding of the concept of inter-personal relationships. Even if I took the dictionairy, it wouldn't be clear. Also, how can I be sure that the person who has set up this describtion has looked up the same definition as me. The reason why I went on about this word was because... well, they stressed this in the jobdescription, hence... they place emphasis on this, and if it's emphasized, it's important, thus they have guidelines, thus they have an idea about it, and who am I to not discuss it?

As for your situation, where you feel you can't go for disability because other people resent you. I stopped caring about what other people thought about me a long time ago. I felt miserable worrying about it and even more because apparently no one could be honest about it. It's not that I can't handle the truth... that's the main issue here. A lot of people can't. I've had a therapist call me a "fat slob" over some issue I was discussing with him. It was no insult but he did point it out like that. When I had a conversation with a friend of mine his dad overheard it and told me "I would've punched this guy in the face". So apparently no everyone can handle this kind of stuff. I can... I need critisism, and if possible constructive. Something I can work with. Otherwise, don't get mad at me because I don't fit your (presumably lied) ideal.

If a company wouldn't hire me because I was white, I'm more likely to accept the fact that they don't want white people than I would file a lawsuit because it's well.. "racist". Honesty to me is a problem if they can't be honest about what problem to solve... let's be honest, how do you solve something of which you don't know what to solve. It's even stuff I might expect some times where I stress "hey look, is this a problem if I were to work here?" and then they tell me "oh no sir, not at all!". But then you find out that it actually is... that kind of honesty. It's not sensible. And it solves nothing... it doesn't even create options to solve something. Perhaps it's my looks, perhaps it's my experience in the field, perhaps it's that they already filled in the slot. If that happens 3 times a row, why should I put blame with myself rather than to worry what the deal actually is. I mean... they know what's wrong and they could tell me, they're just being a pain in my rear that way. Of course, there's no obligation for them to but it would be a really, really weird place if this kind of "basic" honesty is discarded and it's deemed more fun to just make something up.

Also, I tried the honesty deal to the extent do "play it smart". It doesn't sit well. If I actually have a problem with finishing a job because I'm not adept for it, I can tell them "I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention" and get reprimanded. The 2nd time that happens, it's a bigger deal. I can't come up with another excuse. At some point if you keep failing because you apparently are not at the right job/course, you can take blame by "I made the wrong choice". That happens. Employees as well as teachers will only take this much excuses before you have to confirm that you're in the wrong place because you, for example lack insights in with this job/task. It's also a trait which makes each of us different and has nothing to do with being on any spectrum. Here's an example; I can manage fairly well with graphic design as well as with music. Granted it's "arts" which are rather vague. Yet don't ask me to for instance, to design some kind of illustration that is fit for small children. That's not my area of interest. I have no insight in that area apart from what I might research. But it still ends up being not being "authentic". Music is the same. I can do fairly well in production as well as some electronic styles and the more rock/metal oriented styles on a variety of instruments, yet that skill does not warrant that I am also able to write a catchy pop song that does appeal to the really big masses. It doesn't make me a bad musician or artist or anything, I just have my specialty. And it could just as well coincide that even when in college these qualities are never examined, tested or required, thus left unused on professional level.

It has to do with traits, it has to do with interest.. I don't think forcing motivation is the big one. Also, I'm one of those guys who doesn't think money is a motivator as I'll rather be the broke artist then rich but not have any ideal. But that's just me... I can respect and accept that not everyone is like that. And that's just all "besides" the spectrum... if we take the spectrum into account and any different wirings in your brain, for example "motor skills"... the pit is wide open I guess.